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helping family

helping family

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Started by Jaycraig in Ski Technique - 47 Replies

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GeordieSki
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

Trencher wrote:What other places might need such rules, the swimming pool, the skating rink, etc. Maybe we should only allow learner drivers out on the road with qualified instructors in case a family member offers some advise to the student driver :-o.

Trencher





On that note, having just passed my driving test, I can say there is no way I could have passed, had I not been taken out by an UNqualified intructor (my dad!), the practice I got was invaluable in building confidence, which I think is a massive factor in driving AND skiing.

I know it may not be worth much from someone who only has 1 weeks skiing, but my instructor was great at confidence building as well as teaching the techniques, and if jaycraigs OH just needed that confidence boost of someone else being there and a few hints for good measure, then I cant see that causing any harm.

On the other hand, living with someone who used to be a Health and Safety officer, I can also understand why the member of staff might have panicked!!!

Ian Wickham
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

What a load of garbage I do not really think this constitutes teaching,specially if it is your wife mine never listens anyway ,vote with your feet and don't go back.

Souldrive
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

I imagine the main issue is money. Potentially, you could have been charging somebody for skiing lessons using chill fatore's facilities and ignoring the fact that they have thier own ski instructors.

Bandit
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

souldrive wrote:I imagine the main issue is money. Potentially, you could have been charging somebody for skiing lessons using chill fatore's facilities and ignoring the fact that they have thier own ski instructors.

I see that the main issue for any provider is "Duty of Care" within H&S legislation. If a member of the public is teaching/coaching/instructing another person then who is responsible in the event of an accident involving another person. Did Jaycraig buy Liability Insurance before he gave tips to his OH? I doubt it, and neither would most of us even consider the need. So it's a catch all, because the company running the slope is liable for accidents on it's premises.

Souldrive...nice to see you again, are you pining for the snow :D

Tony_H
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

If you look at the T&Cs of using indoor slopes, they insist on people being competent enough to be able to use them. They are within their rights to throw anyone off who is a potential danger to themselves or others. I beleive some centres make you pass a test if you are unsure.

As for what constitutes teaching, I think what was said by the staff member was OTT, but they do have regs and health and safety issues.

Funnily enough, if they had offered lessons, it would have probably required a 2nd mortgage!

I havent ever used an indoor slope, but I am hoping to get to Manchester this week to give it a go, whilst I have some time off.

Trencher
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

bandit wrote:I see that the main issue for any provider is "Duty of Care" within H&S legislation. If a member of the public is teaching/coaching/instructing another person then who is responsible in the event of an accident involving another person. Did Jaycraig buy Liability Insurance before he gave tips to his OH? I doubt it, and neither would most of us even consider the need. So it's a catch all, because the company running the slope is liable for accidents on it's premises.




My reasoning would be that in order to be burdened with a duty of care, a person would have to imply that they are an instructor. Paid or volunteer, every instructor assumes a duty of care and maybe found liable if they have failed to meet the professional standards when something goes wrong. However, someone just giving unqualified advice does not assume that responsibilty. It seems to me that the resposibility of the host company remains the same unless they knew the advice given would cause some danger. How could they ever know that.

In fact, isn't this simmilar to the "Good Samaritan" situation ? Where if you help someone in distress, you should not be held liable for your good intentions. Without this protection we would all have to drive by accidents where we might have saved a life. However, a professional first responder would be expected to meet professional standards whether on duty or not.



Trencher

because I'm so inclined .....

Edited 4 times. Last update at 21-Sep-2008

Ise
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

Trencher wrote:
My reasoning would be that in order to be burdened with a duty of care, a person would have to imply that they are an instructor. Paid or volunteer, every instructor assumes a duty of care and maybe found liable if they have failed to meet the professional standards when something goes wrong. However, someone just giving unqualified advice does not assume that responsibilty. It seems to me that the resposibility of the host company remains the same unless they knew the advise given would cause some danger. How could they ever know that.

In fact, isn't this simmilar to the "Good Samaritan" situation ? Where if you help someone in distress, you should not be held liable for your good intentions. Without this protection we would all have to drive by accidents where we might have saved a life.

Trencher



That's all a bit confused, liability and duty of care aren't the same thing, for both different standards exist in different countries in different environments.

Between the two snow ploughers the common law principle of Volenti non fit injuria (latin: to a willing person, no injury is done) would apply with the caveat that actual recent case history rests more up contributed negligence in the UK.

The centre is obliged to lay down and take reasonable measures to enforce reasonable standards to prevent injury, ie

- not allowing people to use the facility who lack experience, for the obvious reasons plus they can then be termed to have given consent and also be covered by Volenti non fit injuria
- not allowing unqualified persons (as defined by the relevant governing body) to instruct or coach
- not allowing people to engage in activities likely to present hazard to others.

If you give a follow me snow plough lesson in the middle of the main slope you're breaking all three.

Incidentally, "Good Samaritan" legally generally means some US laws and has no legal basis in the UK. Instead some common law applies regarding necessity which it's too late at night for me to explain now )

Trencher
reply to 'helping family'
posted Sep-2008

ise wrote:The centre is obliged to lay down and take reasonable measures to enforce reasonable standards to prevent injury, ie

- not allowing people to use the facility who lack experience, for the obvious reasons plus they can then be termed to have given consent and also be covered by Volenti non fit injuria
- not allowing unqualified persons (as defined by the relevant governing body) to instruct or coach
- not allowing people to engage in activities likely to present hazard to others.

If you give a follow me snow plough lesson in the middle of the main slope you're breaking all three.



If someoneone of their own volition chooses to mimic another skier, then what rules are being broken. So what the centre needs is big signs saying "don't comment on anyone else's skiing and don't copy anyone else".
It is totally ridiculous. Of course the centre can be as anal as they want, but there is no justification.

Trencher
because I'm so inclined .....

Topic last updated on 20-October-2008 at 15:40