helping family

Trencher wrote:What other places might need such rules, the swimming pool, the skating rink, etc. Maybe we should only allow learner drivers out on the road with qualified instructors in case a family member offers some advise to the student driver :-o.

Trencher

The only place I can think of that lets you take your own coach in, is a tennis club. Providing one person is a member of the club, and they pay full court fees your own coach can go in and give you a lesson, even though they have their own coaching staff. I suppose there is no danger factor involved.

ise wrote:.

Incidentally, "Good Samaritan" legally generally means some US laws and has no legal basis in the UK. Instead some common law applies regarding necessity which it's too late at night for me to explain now )

Leaving aside the French version of requiring "good Samaritan" intervention, we are really talking about feeling free to assist someone without fear of repercussions. In the the US many States have enacted laws which limit or void any liability a passerby might incur by intervening in a situation to help someone in distress. These laws were designed to make clear to the public that they should not feel inhibited by liability concerns when they are able to help another in distress.

As I understand it (maybe wrong), there has not been a case in the UK where a good Samaritan has been found liable for anything done while helping another in an emergency. That's not to say the good Samaritan actually has any protection in UK law as they might in the US.

Generally, whether it is giving advice on skiing or helping someone in an emergency, we should be able to use our common sense. There might be the occasional idiot or just unfortunate person who causes harm in these situations, but we can not make the world fool proof. We should not allow people so caught up in the minutie of their profession, whether lawyer or instructor to actually work against the common good and individual freedom where no problem exist.

To be clear, I am not saying that anyone should misrepresnt themselves as a qualified instructor or give instruction per se where this would be theft of service or breech the contract of the ticket purchase. Giving advice to friends and family is neither of these.

If the chill factore worker had said that the exercise they were working on together was disruptive on such a small slope, so please avoid doing it, that would have been another matter entirely.

Trencher

RoseR wrote:
The only place I can think of that lets you take your own coach in, is a tennis club. Providing one person is a member of the club, and they pay full court fees your own coach can go in and give you a lesson, even though they have their own coaching staff. I suppose there is no danger factor involved.

We're not talking about coaching or instruction. Have you not given advice on swimming to your kids in the swimming pool. Would you have been offended if after telling your child to try breathing on alternate strokes, some job's worth comes flying over to tell you to desist from instruction or be ejected ? If you were at a skating rink and a friend said try doing this to you only to be pounced upon by the gestapo for unofficial teaching, would you be be p*****d off ?


Trencher

Trencher wrote:

RoseR wrote:
The only place I can think of that lets you take your own coach in, is a tennis club. Providing one person is a member of the club, and they pay full court fees your own coach can go in and give you a lesson, even though they have their own coaching staff. I suppose there is no danger factor involved.

We're not talking about coaching or instruction. Have you not given advice on swimming to your kids in the swimming pool. Would you have been offended if after telling your child to try breathing on alternate strokes, some job's worth comes flying over to tell you to desist from instruction or be ejected ? If you were at a skating rink and a friend said try doing this to you only to be pounced upon by the gestapo for unofficial teaching, would you be be p*****d off ?


Trencher

When does advice become coaching? If giving advice and then modelling the movements for the recipient causes risk to other users of any facility, does the company have a right and responsibility to take action?

Trencher wrote:

ise wrote:.

Incidentally, "Good Samaritan" legally generally means some US laws and has no legal basis in the UK. Instead some common law applies regarding necessity which it's too late at night for me to explain now )

Leaving aside the French version of requiring "good Samaritan" intervention, we are really talking about feeling free to assist someone without fear of repercussions. In the the US many States have enacted laws which limit or void any liability a passerby might incur by intervening in a situation to help someone in distress. These laws were designed to make clear to the public that they should not feel inhibited by liability concerns when they are able to help another in distress.

Trencher

I see you've taken the Google instant expert course there, much better than all that time consuming, boring, hard work that real training and qualifications takes )

Good Samaritan is entirely irrelevant to this, it's something you mentioned and no one else. The Google course, as they so often are, has missed a few salient points, chiefly, the reason that states of the US enacted those laws was the oppressive state of tort laws in the US, the main reason there's not one in the UK is that tort laws are not yet that oppressive and common law serves well. Whether there's a French one is entirely irrelevant unless this is some sort of competition to name places with such laws?

You're quite right that it's reasonable for people to give each feedback on their skiing, more than that, it's normal, expected and fun, it would be a miserable day on these indoor slopes if you didn't, but the OP made it quite clear he was doing follow me snow plough coaching and also gave us to understand he wasn't able to stop properly. That's obviously not on.

You also seem to have overlooked the fact these places are covered in CCTV nowadays and in the event of an accident that coverage can be used to prove the slope operator was negligent. On this day what's going to be on that coverage is a guy snowploughing with someone following him, show it to 100 skiers and they will all say that's a lesson.

Last Thursday I went to the gym with a friend that's studying to become a personal trainer, he was explaining me all the excercises and demostrating before i tried them myself, of the personal trainers came over saw us, and chat to us for a bit, then my friend asked him if he was teaching the exercises correctly, and if they would be suitable for me, The instructor answer all questions and then left.

We are talking about one of the most expensive gyms in London where they charge £500 for you to have a personal trainer for 3 months on top of a £140 monthly memebership.

On sunday me and my other half went to my local gym and after our induction we were doing some exercises and I was ghelping and explaining what i'd learn last thursday with my friend.

In neither of the situations i was aproached by any member of staff telling me that i'm not allowed to teach. That guy was just being an idiot.

Say for instance that i'm a great friend of pavelski and he tells me that if I travel to US we will drive to the mountains and he will teach me free of charge. Is this a crime? Is it a crime to know an instructor and get help from him, because you feel more confident with a familiar face?

GPWM.
Common sense seems to be the missing sentiment here to be honest.
Maybe this person also doubles as a football referee.....?????

This is what happens when the "compo" culture takes hold. Operators of these types of facilities become so obsessed about not leaving themselves open to lawsuits that common sense goes out the window. They feel obliged to anticipate every possible risk of injury and ensure that they have taken every possible precaution, no matter how ridiculous, to show that they were not negligent.

A favourite example of this, is the warning including with microwaves telling you that they are not suitable for drying pets :lol: :lol: :lol:, included because one idiot in the world thought that this was a good idea. Another example, was a school in the UK which was in the papers because it banned conker contests because of the risk of unjury to the pupils :shock: I am sure we can all come up with other examples of such nonsense.

While I know that the French, in particular, have very strong regulations about "unauthorised" instruction that I suspect is all about protecting the local ski school(which prevents some of the tour operators from offering ski guiding), I rather doubt that this was the issue here.