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End to ski hosting in France

End to ski hosting in France

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Started by AllyG in France - 299 Replies

J2Ski

LOTA
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

verbier_ski_bum wrote:
Snapzzz wrote:
Ranchero_1979 wrote:I sit on the other side. Is incredibly difficult for instructors to gain enough experience to progress through system and work in France. As such I completely understand why they would want to ensure maximum number of people take lessons. That might mean them having to slightly alter their business model to meet British customer needs but makes perfect sense to me.

Also we have to remember the French set a high standard for you to be an instructor, does not require you to be of a given Nationality to meet standard. Just ensures the dedication to be a professional is there. Reality is someone who did 5 week basic instructor course in Canada cannot be compared to a French qualified instructor who has spent several years learning the trade. To ensure these dedicated people have a viable career is in interest of everyone.



TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THIS ^^^^

The point is that people that enjoy hosting are not looking for an alternative to lessons, they often do not need nor want lessons. They just want a social environment to ski with other capable people.

This is just about money.....plain and simple.
Whilst in Morzine last week ESF had posters up an flyers around offering a tour of the pistes, no instruction, from 1pm-5pm. 34 euros.
That is what it is all about, they want the exclusive on a blossoming trend. Simple as.


When people need hosting they in fact do need lessons. When you can ski it never a problem to explore by yourself or find the company to ski with because you can follow anyone anywhere and won't be a liability. TO's can organise group skiing and let people subscribe and meet, just remove the host out of it or hire instructor from a ski school for a day. Any real change will be a positive one. You spend a day with a host telling him you don't like ice, and he'll be keeping you are out of it. If you spend the day with instructor and tell him the same be sure you won't miss a single icy patch that can be found anywhere that day. The truth is people get this "hosting" thing as a massive freebie, some pampering at no visible cost. So it's about money indeed. And it's largely a British thing, I doubt tourists from other places care a thing about hosting. And yes, it's a market share. If certain activity is performed by a trained and certified professionals and removed from them by allowing non-trained non-certified individuals to perform it too, this is the market share gone, and profession brings less rewards and may end up unsustainable or affordable only to rich kids who live on their parents money anyway. And it's not easy to gain these qualifications either, so why shouldn't this be rewarded?

In any case, this is the law of the host country. Take it or leave it. Or write a letter to Parliament. They will laugh at it too.


Wrong, mate. It's not just a British thing. In the United States and Canada, mountain hosts are provided, free of charge, by resorts to show visitors around the particular mountain. And very popular they are too. No instruction, just run familiarisation and the best places to stop for a wee and a cup of tea.

All sounds rather similar to what tour ops have tried to do in Europe for many seasons.

All this ban does is convince me not to return to France for skiing any time soon; I can go somewhere else where I feel my custom is more valued.

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

I am not missing a point. Because the point is that ski hosting is illegal in France. That it is available and legal in the USA or Canada is beyond the point here completely. You can go skiing there and enjoy the hosting - this is how it normally works, and not crying that the law is silly and you want a different one. I don't get what the fuss is about. There are still some resorts that offer this service, if this is such a deal breaker you can always go there. I know for many people it's irrelevant so on balance nothing will change much for French ski resorts. But letters to French ministers will be quite amusing to read.

Billip1
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

verbier_ski_bum wrote:...the point is that ski hosting is illegal in France. That it is available and legal in the USA or Canada is beyond the point here completely. You can go skiing there and enjoy the hosting - this is how it normally works, and not crying that the law is silly and you want a different one. I don't get what the fuss is about. ...


I think the fuss is about the fact that under EU legislation such restrictions are almost certainly unlawful.

Msej449
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

A friend of ours, an ESF-qualified instructor, spent the night in a French cell because she dared to take a group of experienced British skiers out on a tour of the resort. This is the reality. It's all to do with the French operating an illegal, restrictive employment regime. It's nothing to do with the quality of teaching.

Msej449
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

This is nothing to do with ensuring a high standard of instruction. It's a restrictive practice that should be illegal under EU law. I no longer ski in France: restrictive practices like this; queues; congestion everywhere. I spend my money elsewhere in the Alps or in the USA: locations that welcome and among other things, provide for guides.

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

billip1 wrote:
verbier_ski_bum wrote:...the point is that ski hosting is illegal in France. That it is available and legal in the USA or Canada is beyond the point here completely. You can go skiing there and enjoy the hosting - this is how it normally works, and not crying that the law is silly and you want a different one. I don't get what the fuss is about. ...


I think the fuss is about the fact that under EU legislation such restrictions are almost certainly unlawful.


It is not a restriction on employment but a demand that the person seeking this employment had local qualifications. Qualify and work. you don't need any additional permits and paperwork, just qualifications. I can't see how EU laws apply to it.

Ranchero_1979
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

Msej449 "amongst other things provide for guides". This is the problem where you don't have proper laws in place, already a blur.

An International mountain guide is a certified person, just like a International mountain leader is and ski instructor cannot take you on glacier. Boundaries are very clear, what they can do and where.

Why would having on your cv "skied 10 weeks with mum and dad, 2 weeks summer work experience" qualify you to do similar role.

All you are arguing about is less service for same money. You obviously pay for this in your Chalet/holiday fee, why would you not want it going to person who is qualified? Ah because real truth is British companies will not reduce their fees to accommodate law.

Msej449
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

I am not arguing against qualification of Instructors and even of Guides. I'm arguing that this is is only an issue in France, where qualification is used as a restrictive practice to stop people - and imprison them, regularly - who are just showing a group of people 'round a resort.

When someone guides you 'round the resort, you know what you're getting. You're not getting instruction. They are just helping you to orient yourself and minimise wasted time.

Topic last updated on 22-November-2013 at 00:18