End to ski hosting in France

Guide is someone who is has IFMGA badge, not someone who can read a piste map.

verbier_ski_bum wrote:I am not missing a point. Because the point is that ski hosting is illegal in France. That it is available and legal in the USA or Canada is beyond the point here completely. You can go skiing there and enjoy the hosting - this is how it normally works, and not crying that the law is silly and you want a different one. I don't get what the fuss is about. There are still some resorts that offer this service, if this is such a deal breaker you can always go there. I know for many people it's irrelevant so on balance nothing will change much for French ski resorts. But letters to French ministers will be quite amusing to read.

Yes, you have missed the point. You said in a previous posting that it was "largely a British thing." I was pointing out that was the not the case with the US and Canada leading the way with mountain hosts. Legality, or otherwise, was not mentioned.

And, by the way, I've seen large groups of Dutch and Scandanavian skiers being led by their tour operators representatives in many European resorts.

I also wonder how Ski Club of Great Britain leaders are affected in French resorts.

I also don't think that in North America mountain hosts work for TO's. They are likely resort employees. And ski schools are associated with resorts too, so situations cannot be directly comparable.

Big difference in north America is that it is the resort putting on the service, not individual TOs. Those hosts are probably suitably qualified, and don't offer a week long service as the TOs do.

Having guided, sorry hosted, for 5 seasons, I know from experience that a significant number of British clients go with the hosts as a free alternative to ski school. They'd probably had 2 weeks of lessons in their life and think that snow ploughing down an easy red means they no longer need lessons ever again.

I do still think that there should be a compromise worked out as I proposed earlier. The ESF could earn some early season money, probably pick up more clients as the hosts would be in a stronger position to say no to some skiers, and those that can't or won't read a piste map for themselves can enjoy the service they want, once they can ski to an adequate standard.

If this whole affair puts people off France, then great for those of us who aren't!!

Dorset Boy wrote:

Having guided, sorry hosted, for 5 seasons, I know from experience that a significant number of British clients go with the hosts as a free alternative to ski school. They'd probably had 2 weeks of lessons in their life and think that snow ploughing down an easy red means they no longer need lessons ever again.

This for me is the real problem. Forget all the politics and laws for a minute. If people are using the services of a host/guide in this way, then they are themselves idiots and cheapskates. I hope the guides/hosts take one look at these people and decline to take them.

As for going to France, its generally not the first place I look to ski anyway, but any of these changes to the law and hosting possibilities would not affect my decision where to go one iota. I would imagine it would be a very small percent of people who would choose to ski elsewhere as a result of this as well, despite it possibly being a good service that had been offered up to now.

verbier_ski_bum wrote:

When people need hosting they in fact do need lessons. When you can ski it never a problem to explore by yourself or find the company to ski with because you can follow anyone anywhere and won't be a liability.

Sorry but that is the biggest load of crap i have ever heard.

I have used crystals ski hosting and it wasn't because i still needed lessons. I used them because my family are at a different standard to me, they were out at ski school and i was looking for company.
Joining a hosted group is easy, a lot easier than just trying to tag on to random strangers in a lift queue and a lot less boring than skiing alone. Although i am happy to be by myself.

So do ESF teach social skills too then? Maybe thats the lessons i need....A lesson in skiing alone or just following someone. Until that time i guess i will just have to 'manage'.

verbier_ski_bum wrote:
I just don't understand this:) Why do you need to get to know your host? And why is piste map not enough? Where is your sense of adventure?:)

Because for some Skiing is a social event, perhaps you should accept that others demand different experiences from life.
Also i think that your encouragement to explore alone could in fact be slightly more risky than an organised group.....qualified or not.

Snapzzz wrote:
Also i think that your encouragement to explore alone could in fact be slightly more risky than an organised group.....qualified or not.

Snapzzz, that's exactly how I feel about it :thumbup:

I feel much safer ski-ing in an organised group with a ski host than I would ski-ing on my own.

Snapzzz wrote:

verbier_ski_bum wrote:

When people need hosting they in fact do need lessons. When you can ski it never a problem to explore by yourself or find the company to ski with because you can follow anyone anywhere and won't be a liability.

Sorry but that is the biggest load of crap i have ever heard.

I have used crystals ski hosting and it wasn't because i still needed lessons. I used them because my family are at a different standard to me, they were out at ski school and i was looking for company.
Joining a hosted group is easy, a lot easier than just trying to tag on to random strangers in a lift queue and a lot less boring than skiing alone. Although i am happy to be by myself.

So do ESF teach social skills too then? Maybe thats the lessons i need....A lesson in skiing alone or just following someone. Until that time i guess i will just have to 'manage'.

verbier_ski_bum wrote:
I just don't understand this:) Why do you need to get to know your host? And why is piste map not enough? Where is your sense of adventure?:)

Because for some Skiing is a social event, perhaps you should accept that others demand different experiences from life.
Also i think that your encouragement to explore alone could in fact be slightly more risky than an organised group.....qualified or not.

Why exploring alone will be more risky if you can ski and certain that you don't need lessons? The whole idea of lessons is to make skiers independent and free in their choice of terrain because they can handle it well. If conditions or grading of a certain slope worry you you do need lessons. It's a very strange comment because everyone can benefit from a lesson. Even ski instructors of high level go on courses to maintain proficiency.

Anyway, ski hosts can organise all this "social" bit without actually actively guiding. Groups according to levels and approximate routes for each group. You just won't have a leader on the slopes with you unless you "elect" him from your own ranks. And you meet other skiers in this way too. You won't be breaking any laws, and you won't be shifting responsibility onto someone working for 60 pounds a week. I just can't see where the issue is.