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End to ski hosting in France

End to ski hosting in France

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Started by AllyG in France - 299 Replies

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Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

andyhull wrote:I think ESF will be seeing a big drop in referrals from British TOs. The independent ski schools should do very well out of this.

The EFS is much cheaper to book, referrals to independent ski schools will lead to price increase. I am not sure public will like it too much, the whole attraction of ski hosting is that it's "free" i.e. packed into the price of the tour with additional service provided by one of the workers. Otherwise I can see what the fuss is about. If it wasn't free no-one would care if guides are wearing ESF or chalet uniforms.

Andyhull
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

verbier_ski_bum wrote:
andyhull wrote:I think ESF will be seeing a big drop in referrals from British TOs. The independent ski schools should do very well out of this.

The EFS is much cheaper to book, referrals to independent ski schools will lead to price increase. I am not sure public will like it too much, the whole attraction of ski hosting is that it's "free" i.e. packed into the price of the tour with additional service provided by one of the workers. Otherwise I can see what the fuss is about. If it wasn't free no-one would care if guides are wearing ESF or chalet uniforms.


Ski hosting is an opportunity to get to know your hosts too. I've had some very memorable days skiing on hosting days.
I'm looking forward to using the service in Mayrhofen in a couple of weeks, it's somewhere I haven't been before so it's a real bonus to get shown around the area.
It's a very popular service with the group I organise, a lot of people were disappointed in January that Skiworld had suspended their hosting in 3 Valleys.
Certainly something we need to take into account when choosing resorts for next season.

Tony_H
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

AllyG wrote:
SwingBeep wrote:As Ian Wickham mentioned earlier this has been going on for years. There was article about the same issue in The Daily Telegraph on 19th Dec. 2001 shortly after the French ministry of sport enacted the current law http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/4180074/British-ski-guides-hit-French-resistance.html

As the law is pretty clear and the penalties are quite severe (up to 1 year's imprisonment and a fine of up to 15,000 Euros) http://www.legifrance.com/affichCode.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000006547567&idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006167038&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006071318&dateTexte=20080208 I'm quite surprised that the TOs offered this service at all and got away with offering it for so long.


Thanks SwingBeep - I didn't realize that 'leading' was banned in 2001 as well as 'teaching'.

I shall send my letter off to that French politician lady Tony H told me about, and hope for the best :)


I imagine she will say that you should speak French in France.

What have you written on the ESF facebook page Ally?

AllyG
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

Tony_H wrote:
I shall send my letter off to that French politician lady Tony H told me about, and hope for the best :)


I will write my letter in French Tony, with an English version for the British newspapers - it will be a good chance to put some of my French lessons into practice :)

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

Snapzzz wrote:
Ranchero_1979 wrote:I sit on the other side. Is incredibly difficult for instructors to gain enough experience to progress through system and work in France. As such I completely understand why they would want to ensure maximum number of people take lessons. That might mean them having to slightly alter their business model to meet British customer needs but makes perfect sense to me.

Also we have to remember the French set a high standard for you to be an instructor, does not require you to be of a given Nationality to meet standard. Just ensures the dedication to be a professional is there. Reality is someone who did 5 week basic instructor course in Canada cannot be compared to a French qualified instructor who has spent several years learning the trade. To ensure these dedicated people have a viable career is in interest of everyone.



TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THIS ^^^^

The point is that people that enjoy hosting are not looking for an alternative to lessons, they often do not need nor want lessons. They just want a social environment to ski with other capable people.

This is just about money.....plain and simple.
Whilst in Morzine last week ESF had posters up an flyers around offering a tour of the pistes, no instruction, from 1pm-5pm. 34 euros.
That is what it is all about, they want the exclusive on a blossoming trend. Simple as.


When people need hosting they in fact do need lessons. When you can ski it never a problem to explore by yourself or find the company to ski with because you can follow anyone anywhere and won't be a liability. TO's can organise group skiing and let people subscribe and meet, just remove the host out of it or hire instructor from a ski school for a day. Any real change will be a positive one. You spend a day with a host telling him you don't like ice, and he'll be keeping you are out of it. If you spend the day with instructor and tell him the same be sure you won't miss a single icy patch that can be found anywhere that day. The truth is people get this "hosting" thing as a massive freebie, some pampering at no visible cost. So it's about money indeed. And it's largely a British thing, I doubt tourists from other places care a thing about hosting. And yes, it's a market share. If certain activity is performed by a trained and certified professionals and removed from them by allowing non-trained non-certified individuals to perform it too, this is the market share gone, and profession brings less rewards and may end up unsustainable or affordable only to rich kids who live on their parents money anyway. And it's not easy to gain these qualifications either, so why shouldn't this be rewarded?

In any case, this is the law of the host country. Take it or leave it. Or write a letter to Parliament. They will laugh at it too.

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

andyhull wrote:
verbier_ski_bum wrote:
andyhull wrote:I think ESF will be seeing a big drop in referrals from British TOs. The independent ski schools should do very well out of this.

The EFS is much cheaper to book, referrals to independent ski schools will lead to price increase. I am not sure public will like it too much, the whole attraction of ski hosting is that it's "free" i.e. packed into the price of the tour with additional service provided by one of the workers. Otherwise I can see what the fuss is about. If it wasn't free no-one would care if guides are wearing ESF or chalet uniforms.


Ski hosting is an opportunity to get to know your hosts too. I've had some very memorable days skiing on hosting days.
I'm looking forward to using the service in Mayrhofen in a couple of weeks, it's somewhere I haven't been before so it's a real bonus to get shown around the area.
It's a very popular service with the group I organise, a lot of people were disappointed in January that Skiworld had suspended their hosting in 3 Valleys.
Certainly something we need to take into account when choosing resorts for next season.


I just don't understand this:) Why do you need to get to know your host? And why is piste map not enough? Where is your sense of adventure?:)

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

AllyG wrote:I think I will write a letter to the French government, explaining that whilst it is very kind of them to be concerned with my safety on the French ski slopes, the British ski hosts are no danger to me at all.

And then I will list what I consider to be the greatest dangers to people on the ski slopes, such as:

1. They should make sure no ski lesson classes have more than 8 pupils, because it becomes very dangerous when ski-ing in large classes.

2. All ski instructors, whatever nationality they are, should have to pass a proficiency test in the language of their pupils. I have had some French instructors with very poor English, and I know they teach Russians etc. when they only have a very rudimentary knowledge of their language. They should make a ski phrase book in several languages so that everyone can understand what their ski instructor says. This is one reason why many British people prefer to go to a British ski school - because the instructor will be English, and speak perfect English.

3. They should make sure the pistes are graded correctly. It is very dangerous to have difficult pistes, like that Santons one in Val d'Isere, graded as a blue. Lots of people fall over on it and they could be seriously hurt. It is no wonder that British people want ski hosts to take them around the French ski resorts when pistes are graded as badly as that.

I am sure I can think of a few more really dangerous things that the French government could sort out in French ski resorts.

Who do you reckon I should send my letter to?


Ally, en France on parle francais:) While foreign languages are desirable, the main working language, ironically, is French.
As for grading - this is the reason why people should be taking lessons and not using ski hosts to build their confidence and then falling apart while conditions are less than ideal. Grading is relative and takes into account steepness, width and exposure. Conditions play no role in it. Everyone would love pistes remain freshly groomed, not bullet-proof, not bumped up and empty. I would also love powder off piste not turning into crud:) But this is not going to happen. And it doesn't affect grading, skiers are expected to adapt.

Tony_H
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France' posted Feb-2013

AllyG wrote:
Tony_H wrote:
I shall send my letter off to that French politician lady Tony H told me about, and hope for the best :)


I will write my letter in French Tony, with an English version for the British newspapers - it will be a good chance to put some of my French lessons into practice :)


I think you've completely misunderstood the point Ally.
Le Pen is a right wing politician who would probably insist that everyone visiting France spoke French, ie adapt to where you are or bugger off.

Topic last updated on 22-November-2013 at 00:18