End to ski hosting in France

tin pot wrote:Lol. "Whining like children"? I'll respond to the ESF bit, I think.

Nobody is arguing whether laws need to be respected or not. What is clear is that French law protects ESF trade, and works against both British instructors and "ski hosts".

It's laughable because whilst the French promote their joint control of Europe forcing other countries to comply with EU regulations, they pass protectionist laws in their own country - it's hypocracy.

Ski hosting is not a big deal to me, but it clearly is to others, not least the British run chalet businesses. Simply insulting those who don't like this news isn't a mature way to argue your point.

Can you please indicate how it is clear that French Law protects the ESF trade and works against British ski instructors? There are plenty working in France, though people might not know about them because they usuallly charge quite a bit more than ESF, yet it's ESF who is called "money-grabbing":) I think it's about time we dropped the "ski hosts" topic. It's illegal. Period. French were prepared to close their eyed on minor violations, and accepted without intervention 1-2 days of guiding in return for some business, but 4.5 days - this is a laugh. By the way, Austrians also started opening their eyes on what's going on in their ski resorts. British run chalet businesses also bring cheap labour which is paid under French minimum wage. How is that?

It does seem as though the ESF think that British ski hosting loses them customers. But I'm not sure it really does. Ski hosting and ski lessons are totally different things.

This is a quote from:
http://www.france2wheels.com/thoughts-on-french-ski-hosting/

Does hosting take business away from local ski school? Very little. Mountain guides? Not at all. Hosting really performs a social function, giving skiers other skiers to ski with.

Maybe the ESF are losing customers, but I think it's more likely due to the recession than to ski hosting. Lessons are expensive, so I suppose if it's a choice of not going ski-ing at all, or cutting out the lessons, people are opting to save money by not having lessons.

I nearly always have at least one lesson when I go ski-ing, and during my latest holiday I had ski hosting AND an ESF lesson.

I was thinking about having an ESF lesson when I go ski-ing again in a few days, but I'm not sure now, if there's going to be a lot of bad feeling going on towards the British holidaymaker. I usually get on really well with my ESF instructors, and we have a good laugh, as well as a lesson. So I am feeling a bit sad about that :(

Ranchero_1979 wrote:"Nobody is arguing whether laws need to be respected or not. What is clear is that French law protects ESF trade, and works against both British instructors and "ski hosts".

This protects all ski schools including the numerous British independent ski instructors in Alps and BASS etc etc. ESF as the major employer of ski instructors in France has highlighted a point which individuals alone would not have bought against the TO's. British independent instructors and guides were the people being hurt the most by previous situation.

This particular point in law, but otherwise BASS instructors tell me they have to be better qualified than their French counterparts and are harassed by police regularly where ESF instructors are not.

Holistically speaking, the French make it as hard as possible for the non-French to earn a living in France. It's their country. However, as they are driving a federated Europe, I call it hypocracy.

If the ESF want to increase the number of British holidaymakers who take lessons with them, one thing I would suggest is that they improve the standard of English spoken by their instructors.

I have had lots of lessons with the ESF and sometimes this has been a real problem. In Meribel in January 2 years ago, for example, we couldn't work out what our ESF instructor was trying to say. Luckily for us, one of the group lived in Jersey and was practically bilingual, and he translated for us.

To be perfectly truthful, I don't even understand what the ESF are trying to say in their 'statement' about the ski hosting. What does 'animate' mean? My English dictionary says it means 'breathe life into' ...

STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF ESF FOLLOWING COURT RULING AGAINST LE SKI

The laws governing sport in France say that it is illegal to 'teach, lead, guide, animate' without an appropriate professional qualification.
http://www.esf-uk.co.uk/news

AllyG wrote:If the ESF want to increase the number of British holidaymakers who take lessons with them, one thing I would suggest is that they improve the standard of English spoken by their instructors.

I have had lots of lessons with the ESF and sometimes this has been a real problem. In Meribel in January 2 years ago, for example, we couldn't work out what our ESF instructor was trying to say. Luckily for us, one of the group lived in Jersey and was practically bilingual, and he translated for us.

To be perfectly truthful, I don't even understand what the ESF are trying to say in their 'statement' about the ski hosting. What does 'animate' mean? My English dictionary says it means 'breathe life into' ...

STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF ESF FOLLOWING COURT RULING AGAINST LE SKI

The laws governing sport in France say that it is illegal to 'teach, lead, guide, animate' without an appropriate professional qualification.
http://www.esf-uk.co.uk/news

"animate" means to entertain.

Ian was right one page ago.
This horse died and was still flogged repeatedly.

Fortunately this does not affect my skiing one bit, and I am sure that those who want to ski in France will continue to do so.

If it becomes a legal issue then no one will have a reason to complain.

So I don't really understand why some, led by Ally G in particular, seem to be getting to precious about all this.

VSB made another great point about how we all want everything for nothing.

I've never used a ski host, and probably never will. I don't need someone to show me around a ski resort, half the fun is working it out for yourself. I read somewhere on here about someone being "blonde and female" and just following "men with apps". Really???? Is that how some people treat their ski trip? That is the impression I got about a host, just follow them without taking anything in or knowing where you're going, not worried at all about how you're skiing yourself.

Each to their own.

I repeat my previous question; Who will now not go to France as a result of this?

My guess is a minuscule number might consider answering ME. And then toddle back off to Megeve, Courchevel or wherever again next year.

And how do you break a toe in a ski boot?

AllyG wrote:If the ESF want to increase the number of British holidaymakers who take lessons with them, one thing I would suggest is that they improve the standard of English spoken by their instructors.

I have had lots of lessons with the ESF and sometimes this has been a real problem. In Meribel in January 2 years ago, for example, we couldn't work out what our ESF instructor was trying to say. Luckily for us, one of the group lived in Jersey and was practically bilingual, and he translated for us.

To be perfectly truthful, I don't even understand what the ESF are trying to say in their 'statement' about the ski hosting. What does 'animate' mean? My English dictionary says it means 'breathe life into' ...

STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF ESF FOLLOWING COURT RULING AGAINST LE SKI

The laws governing sport in France say that it is illegal to 'teach, lead, guide, animate' without an appropriate professional qualification.
http://www.esf-uk.co.uk/news

I bet if french people came to England to learn something, we'd expect them to speak English and wouldn't entertain them speaking French.

So why do we learn to ski with a French company and complain that we can't understand them????? :roll: