Carving and Speed

An old boy on in Norwich used to service my skis he gave me an awful telling off about my new carvers,
he said " these things are bloody dangerous " I asked him why " because they make you think you can ski when you can't " he was a grumpy old sod, I came away thinking he's living in the past and can't let go of his skinny skis.
But the old boy has a point I started skiing on 185 cm, I'm now down to 160 cm. So have carvers made it too easy to learn to ski ?????

Ian Wickham wrote:An old boy on in Norwich used to service my skis he gave me an awful telling off about my new carvers,
he said " these things are bloody dangerous " I asked him why " because they make you think you can ski when you can't " he was a grumpy old sod,
So have carvers made it too easy to learn to ski ?????

Could have been me except I've never been to Norwich )

I don't think that it can ever be too easy to learn to ski but bypassing certain stages will affect the end result...Be it Ski Evolutif where snowplough was considered unnecessary (you can always tell someone who learned by this route imho) or using carving skis before your technique is up to it.

I suppose its natural to want to progress as fast as possible but it doesn't always finish up with the best result.

Carving is often talked about as if its some new discipline - as long as skis have had any side cut at all, people have been carving turns its just got 100 times easier to do with modern skis.

As Bandit says nobody is a learner any more after a few lessons, when talking to skiers in our shop the only people who call themselves beginners are those who haven't skied at all.

bandit wrote:
Add into the mix, the over grooming of blue and red pistes (in Europe). To me it looks like an accident waiting to happen, except it is happening. Accidents with collisions are now common and average speeds are up. I don't need to read a report, just stand still and watch.
2/3 or more of the folks I ski with, have been hit (and knocked over) by another skier at some time in the past 2/3 winters.

Numbers of accidents per skier days though are lower and when you see someone being stretchered onto the place the odds are no one else was involved. What I think might be deceptive about the figures is I think it's not a even distribution across the season. There's been a ludicrous number of accidents reported in the press here over the last few weeks, avalanches, sledging, skiing, a really tragic number involving children as well. I've not been hit by another skier but when it's busy I go snow shoeing, ski touring, build igloos or chill out. Even then, this is pretty much unrelated to skiing or the sorts of skis people are on, they're just the same on the road, the proportion of people skiing stupidly is about the same as driving stupidly, or trying to get run over on the road. That being the case I'm not sure what can be about it.

ise wrote:

bandit wrote:
Add into the mix, the over grooming of blue and red pistes (in Europe). To me it looks like an accident waiting to happen, except it is happening. Accidents with collisions are now common and average speeds are up. I don't need to read a report, just stand still and watch.
2/3 or more of the folks I ski with, have been hit (and knocked over) by another skier at some time in the past 2/3 winters.

I've not been hit by another skier but when it's busy I go snow shoeing, ski touring, build igloos or chill out. the case I'm not sure what can be about it.

ISTR that you used to have a blue helmet, same style, until you you were knocked over and hit your head? Was that a snowboarder?

It was the slope incident that led to the "shiny red helmet" gag
:D

Folks get their slope time, and by golly they are there to ski, and that's they do. For vacationers it's hard to not ski, when that's what has been planned all year.

My point in all of this is that because skiing has become easier to learn for which I am not against, beginners are missing valuable lessons in etiquette and in part become dangerous to themselves and others. Since the near miss last year I ski at the back of the line of three so at least there is an option of protection for little Wickham, I was at the front last year and so could not give protection. It does not bare thinking about had the skier been three inches to the right.

Ian Wickham wrote:My point in all of this is that because skiing has become easier to learn for which I am not against, beginners are missing valuable lessons in etiquette and in part become dangerous to themselves and others. Since the near miss last year I ski at the back of the line of three so at least there is an option of protection for little Wickham, I was at the front last year and so could not give protection. It does not bare thinking about had the skier been three inches to the right.

I understand why you might do that, and I've done slightly similar but I'm a bit concerned these family groups running interference for each other are one of the problems we see on the slopes. I was trying to pass some people the other day with a father trying to react to the two kids changes in movement and it was really, really hard to move past. You might have it down to a fine art but in that case I've no doubt this guy was increasing the chances of a collision.

ise wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:My point in all of this is that because skiing has become easier to learn for which I am not against, beginners are missing valuable lessons in etiquette and in part become dangerous to themselves and others. Since the near miss last year I ski at the back of the line of three so at least there is an option of protection for little Wickham, I was at the front last year and so could not give protection. It does not bare thinking about had the skier been three inches to the right.

I understand why you might do that, and I've done slightly similar but I'm a bit concerned these family groups running interference for each other are one of the problems we see on the slopes. I was trying to pass some people the other day with a father trying to react to the two kids changes in movement and it was really, really hard to move past. You might have it down to a fine art but in that case I've no doubt this guy was increasing the chances of a collision.

Believe it or not I agree with what you are saying, I'm very careful on what piste I take little Wickham on, I have seen examples of kids skiing unsupervised who could cause problems. I took little Wickham on her first red last year but I did this after an early lunch as the piste was less busy . I think really ise it's a common sense thing and of cause giving some people a wide birth, what I will pass on to Little Wickham is the etiquette of skiing as I think
it's important part of her skiing development.

Ian Wickham wrote:
Believe it or not I agree with what you are saying, I'm very careful on what piste I take little Wickham on, I have seen examples of kids skiing unsupervised who could cause problems. I took little Wickham on her first red last year but I did this after an early lunch as the piste was less busy . I think really ise it's a common sense thing and of cause giving some people a wide birth, what I will pass on to Little Wickham is the etiquette of skiing as I think
it's important part of her skiing development.

sorry :oops: I was trying not to suggest you weren't doing it safely, I would think it's perfectly possible to do safely providing you're a reasonable skier and the kid's not a total beginner. The guy I saw probably ought to have been in lessons and not trying to supervise two kids. I suppose the desire to do some stuff with your own kids and not be separated in different classes is quite normal so it's hard to get right.