Carving and Speed

Dshenberger wrote:

ise wrote:

Trencher wrote:What I was trying to convey before is that carving requires a greater awareness than is usualy needed for skiing.

oh, come on, you're in cloud cuckoo land now :roll: how utterly absurd, it's the easiest of things to do requiring the very least of concentration or effort which is why most accomplished skiers move on to other challenges.

Interesting. Those racers are really a bunch of amateurs doing the easy things!

What I understood from Ise's post was that modern carving skis are designed to carve. Balance on the ski and it will do all the work for you.

Not sure which racers you mean, but World Cup slalom racers dont carve most of their turns according to Trenchers definition.

On a chemically iced world cup run most, if not all, are not carving every turn from start to finish, they try to, but dont manage it every time.

RossF wrote:A softer ski at a given speed will give the same radius turn as a stiffer ski if the person riding them is able to apply the appropriate force to engage the particular radius of either ski.

Thats an interesting view of kinetics Ross.

Assume the major dynamic force on the ski is mass x velocity squared. Assume the same skier at the same speed, angulation, weight, slope. Hence, the force presented to the ski is the same, on both the stiff and soft ski.

So get a stiff ski, and a soft ski, (lateral stiffness, ie along the length) Torsional stiffness and legth is equal on both skis.

Support each ski at the ends, ski upside down, and position a 40 kg load on the waist. I would bet a wienerschnitzel AND a Zipfer bier, the softer ski has a greater deflection, and therefore a shorter arc radius.

Of course this is using a simple support process, whereas the ski would on snow would be subjected to a UDL. It is possible to carry out a UDL test, using a uniform soft thick support material to support the ski, and loading with the 40km load. The result would show a lesser deflection in both cases (than a simple support), but the proportionate difference would be the same.

Oh, UDL means uniformly distributed load, ie resistance loaded along the full length of the ski.

I respectfully submit the above, and restrain from asking for £5.

My knowledge of physics extends beyond what you are giving me credit for Mr Mac. I said the appropriate force not that the force applied be the same for each ski assuming all the other variables (velocity, angulation, gradient of slope etc) remain constant. I believe it was quite clear in my earlier post that the force required to engage either radius would be required to be different.

I apologise for my introductory remark Ross. Having re-read your first note, I missed the part of the point you were making.

On the technicality, I should have also included in the assumption that the stiff and soft ski should have the same edge radius. Then with all other things being equal,the soft ski will adopt a different arc.

Where I was trying to go was that in the discussion, only the ski radius was considered, when considering the behaviour of older straighter large arc skis. Whereas, in my early days, ski stiffness and length were a couple of the very few variables. No guy ever skied on less than 205s. The best off piste Austrians all skied soft easyflex skis.

Neiltoo wrote:
What I understood from Ise's post was that modern carving skis are designed to carve. Balance on the ski and it will do all the work for you.

I did :D or at least most of the work and certainly set you off the right way. It's a pretty low input thing, pistes here are empty and hard pack right now which makes carving the right technique for the day currently.

RossF wrote:My knowledge of physics extends beyond what you are giving me credit for Mr Mac. I said the appropriate force not that the force applied be the same for each ski assuming all the other variables (velocity, angulation, gradient of slope etc) remain constant. I believe it was quite clear in my earlier post that the force required to engage either radius would be required to be different.

Exactly. And more than that, the shape of ski allows it to form a turning arc with very little pressure, as opposed to an older ski which required rather more force to carve, as Mr Elling discussed in his book :

http://books.google.com/books?id=U_w8rVNwCREC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=carving+ski+old+straight+skis&source=web&ots=m4PB-1a01s&sig=Isb4bl0lHD8rvezLH7jhwfYrtZ0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result

Modern skis (easier to feel you're better than you are) + greatly increased helmet wearing = more out of control nutters!

Ski manufacturers had to adapt to snowboarding taking away potential 'punters', because back in the early 90's it was far easier and quicker to become proficient on a board than on skis. Fat skis with big side cuts have reversed that to the extent that better and bigger stunts can now be pulled on skis than on a board.

As a rugby fan, the same principal of the harder hit because of increased padding.

http://www.ski-mastery.com/newsletter6.htm
thought you might find this interesting!!

your site?