J2Ski logo J2Ski logo
Login Forum Search Recent Forums

Investigation into Reaction Time in Skiing Accidents

Investigation into Reaction Time in Skiing Accidents

Login
To Create or Answer a Topic

Started by Peter Shone in Ski Chatter - 42 Replies

J2Ski

Andymol2
reply to 'Investigation into Reaction Time in Skiing Accidents'
posted Feb-2010

5 seconds sounds too long for most accidents.
I would have thought there would be a lot of existing info from motoring accidents that would suggest that the time from the awareness of impending accident to accident is generally a lot less than 5 seconds. You can't meake an exact leap to skiing but reaction times, stopping distances, speed of chute depolyment to effective decelleration are largely calculable.

I guess the only likely role for a parachute would be if you were to ski off a cliff. (Or if you are trying to ski down Everest when the chute is used to limit speed on extreme steeps & reduced air resistance)

Most accidents happen because people aren't aware - most of us given 5 seconds could probably stop or scrub off a lot of speed sufficient to avoid an accident.
Andy M

Peter Shone
reply to 'Investigation into Reaction Time in Skiing Accidents'
posted Feb-2010



Ok guys thanks for your opinions but it seems like this has spiralled out of control
a little bit.

I am doing a Masters degree in Aeronautical Engineering, and the work I have done up to this point has foundations of work from leaders in the field of aerodynamics. The feasibility of the idea will be the result of my extensive research into all aspects of the subject, so although I appreciate all of your views and involvement (even though some of you dont seem to give it a slight chance!) I don't want this to get too off topic.

I am not saying that this idea will help everyone in every accident, but it may turn out that it is only feasible for certain ski conditions, for example downhill where the speeds are high and it is possible to get air (like Paerson in the Olympics).

I'm glad I've started a healthy discussion, but I don't want it to get too off topic so I'm primarily looking for skiers out there who have been in accidents and may have some idea as to how long they have before
realisation and the accident.

Thanks!

Peter

P.S Don't focus on the 5 secs, it was only meant to be an example!

Ir12daveor
reply to 'Investigation into Reaction Time in Skiing Accidents'
posted Feb-2010

Regarding the OP,

Remember human reaction times are in the region of 300ms.(It is actually quite easy to measure, I've done it for a number of projects in the past) If you are very good this reaction might go down to 100ms, but at that level we are talking about sprinters who are also to a certain extent anticipating the gun. If you have a fall at speed this kind of reaction time is not enough to save you so there is certainly no time to deploy a parachute. The parachute also takes time and distance to extend the line and inflate. In the few miliseconds it takes you to hit the ground even a self releasing parachute will not achieve line stretch never mind inflation.

tino_11 wrote:Wow, this is interesting. It's the same argument as air bags and avalungs in my opinion. At an applied but exceptionally rare occasion they may be of use, but 99.99999% of times simply useless and expensive. Even another gadget to give people confidence they don't deserve to act upon.

I am actually considering an Avalung after this weekends snowboarding, only because I found myself traversing to a closed and unpisted black run in Engelberg with a level 3 avalanch warning in place and loving it so much I did it again. There was a 10ft wall of snow cut into the traverse and evidence of 3 slides above. I understood the risk and took it, but had I an extra margin of safety I'd have used it. Difference here is that is a preventative measure not a corrective one. Correction depends on reaction, and that is the point of the OP. I don't think there is enough time in most cases. If there is, skill is likely a better option. For those without skill, education is the far better option.


Tino you realise 4 people were killed in the German speaking part of Switzerland by avalanches this weekend. Two of the 4 might have been saved if they had transceivers on and switched on! (One was wearing one, but he never turned it on!!!) Off piste alone when the risk is considerable is just silly. There are motivations in Switzerland at the moment to try to make freeriding illegal. People like the guy who was buried for 17 hours a few weeks back when freeriding alone with no safety equipment play right into the hands of the people who want it made illegal. If this happens it potentially criminalises ski-touring and free riding for the people who take safety issues into account and have had training.

I'm with Bandit, a transceiver, shovel, probe, training(and going in a group) should be the first things on your list, then think about the Avalung or ABS. I am personally very close to buying an ABS backpack because these days the majority of my skiing/boarding is away from the marked runs.

Edited 1 time. Last update at 23-Feb-2010

Topic last updated on 23-February-2010 at 15:05