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How do you handle skiing on ICE?

How do you handle skiing on ICE?

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Started by Ackeiyword in Ski Technique - 80 Replies

J2Ski

EmmaEvs
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted Feb-2011

Slider345 wrote:Hi Everyone,

My first post, but as an ESF qualified instructor and BASI top level instructor, I felt it important to post on this one.

I'm not in total agreement with some of the comment here.

Firstly, If you are anything from beginner to intermediate then no comment on here will help, you need to see a professional and giving advise on skiing on eggshells is, to be honest, ridiculous. Sorry, that's just the way I feel on that one.

For the more advance skier, it's just a method. Think about a rally car turning on a corner. They turn one way, then the other to keep the car on the slide, but with control.

Skiing on ice is quite similar.

The only difference is that with skiing you have several pivot points. Pivot one, ski direction, Pivot 2, knees, pivot 3, hips.

So lets look at pivot 1 - The skis will be in the direction of the turn....simple
Pivot 2 - Knees - They don't pivot as the can't. They are included as you will feel pressure on the knees due to the opposite directional pivot of the hips.
Pivot 3 - Hips - They will turn the opposite direction of the skis. This will put the edge into the ICE as 37% more effectiveness than not pivoting the hips in the opposite direction.

Now....stand up. Stand as if you are skiing. Pretend you are skiing down the slope turning to the left.

You must use your edges of course, that goes without saying, so you should feel your left side of each foot leaning towards the snow, and the right side up off the snow slightly.

Now with you top part of the body pointing directly down the slope, turn your hips in the opposite direction to your skis (to the right)....

It feels a bit weird at first, but for the more advanced skier, this will give you all the grip you need on the ICE.

You can still fall, skid etc, but it works and is the way professional skiers ski on downhill comp slopes, so a bit of speed helps.


I think I know what you mean Slider. I have found that the more I'm reaching down the slope (which gives the pivots I think you describe), the more stable it feels. Does take some teeth gritting though, particularly as I'm not yet a fully fledged fall line skier. Can I ask - what do you mean by "Now....stand up. Stand as if you are skiing." I may be a bit slow on that point but I stand differently at different times when I'm skiing so can't picture exactly what you mean. Cheers.
I wish I could meet the person who first decided to strap 2 planks to their feet and throw themselves down a mountain

Tony_H
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted Feb-2011

Slider345 wrote:Hi Everyone,

My first post, but as an ESF qualified instructor and BASI top level instructor, I felt it important to post on this one.

I'm not in total agreement with some of the comment here.

Firstly, If you are anything from beginner to intermediate then no comment on here will help, you need to see a professional and giving advise on skiing on eggshells is, to be honest, ridiculous. Sorry, that's just the way I feel on that one.

For the more advance skier, it's just a method. Think about a rally car turning on a corner. They turn one way, then the other to keep the car on the slide, but with control.

Skiing on ice is quite similar.

The only difference is that with skiing you have several pivot points. Pivot one, ski direction, Pivot 2, knees, pivot 3, hips.

So lets look at pivot 1 - The skis will be in the direction of the turn....simple
Pivot 2 - Knees - They don't pivot as the can't. They are included as you will feel pressure on the knees due to the opposite directional pivot of the hips.
Pivot 3 - Hips - They will turn the opposite direction of the skis. This will put the edge into the ICE as 37% more effectiveness than not pivoting the hips in the opposite direction.

Now....stand up. Stand as if you are skiing. Pretend you are skiing down the slope turning to the left.

You must use your edges of course, that goes without saying, so you should feel your left side of each foot leaning towards the snow, and the right side up off the snow slightly.

Now with you top part of the body pointing directly down the slope, turn your hips in the opposite direction to your skis (to the right)....

It feels a bit weird at first, but for the more advanced skier, this will give you all the grip you need on the ICE.

You can still fall, skid etc, but it works and is the way professional skiers ski on downhill comp slopes, so a bit of speed helps.

In reality, it's hard, but it's doable. See a ski instructor in resort to help. If you need a recommendation in French Resorts for the right school, PM me.

Sorry to others. I am not being rude about your comments, It's just a very precise technique.

Frank

Brilliant first post, and great to hear from someone who REALLY should know. I am going to take your comments on board and give it a go. Thanks, Frank
www  New and improved me

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted Feb-2011

By "standing up" I think he means extending your legs. you need to do it to ease the pressure off the edges so that the skis could turn.

EmmaEvs
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted Feb-2011

Cheers VBS I know what you mean. :D
I wish I could meet the person who first decided to strap 2 planks to their feet and throw themselves down a mountain

DaveW
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted Feb-2011

On 'ice' type 'ice' I'm reminded of a run with a Basi Trainer who was (at that time, and probably still is) reckoned to be the fastest UK instructor round-the-poles. Travelling faster than I've ever gone before we came upon sheets of it (which he knew we would).

He never even slacked-off. He put in a tiny-wedge!

At the end I quiried this tactic. Why not? Was all he said.
I was paying for that and still doubted for years. I did get a lot more off of him, of course, same subject.

Later, skiing Vallee Blanche, the night's wind had cleared off the top snow of much of the glacier. This left 'channels' set in the ice cut by previous skiers/boarders. Just like upturned steel channels. Ok, if s/he had similar turn-radius/length skis as me.
Otherwise it got all jammed-up. With real danger of walking-out of a toe-binding and falling on the ice.

Time to engaged various widths of wedges? It worked well, for about the 2 klicks involved. This tool also works, at very slow speed, to get out of off-piste glue, back on piste, when attempting too much!

One more thing, love to know what what our new poster/instructor thinks about grinding-in the inside of the downhill heel out-of- the-turn, when using the hip movements he describes so well?

Edited 1 time. Last update at 19-Feb-2011

Singie
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted May-2011

Is there any way to avoid wipeing out if a fast turn on ice is unavoidable??
Because the consequences are painfull! :D

Pavelski
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted Jul-2011

Skiing on ice is actually preferred by many skiers who want "pure speed" ! It is a wonderful feeling to "cruise" with barely any resistance between ski edges and skiing surface!

Two reasons most skiers are "afraid" of ice; mental stress and poor technique.

Let me address the second, poor technique!

Think of skiing on eggs when on ice! By soft and gentle on ice! I know,,I know,,your brain is screaming, "jam on those edges,,,turn turn,,, too fast,,too fast". DO NOT listen to your brain!

This is where technique is vital! DO NOT TRY TO TURN HARD ON ICE!!!!! The ice will always win! Allow skis to pass over ice,,,then set edges on snow AFTER the ice patch! Slow down AFTER the ice,,,
That is if it is an ice patch!

If you are on slope where it is ice from top to bottom,,well you should NOT be there! Learn to side slip down section! Yes the purist will want a "carving" turn but the expert has many "techniques" fro many ski conditions and ski contexts! Controlled side drift is even practiced by FIS world class racers! Just watch as they come into a GS turn at the apex of the turn! There is a "controlled" two ski side drift just before the ski edges are set for next turn!

Now back to the first reason why skiers are afraid or avoid ice!

The mental aspect! 80% OF SKIING IS MENTAL!!!! If you are thinking falling, injuries, pain,,,,,well it will happen!

What is the key to effective ICE SKIING?

1. Anticipation. Most skiers look 1 meter ahead. Look 5 meters ahead.
2. Experience. Learn to read slope. Like a great golfer,,learn to read slope. Most parts of the center of a slope run are hard if not icy. Why? because skiers are like sheep! They follow each other blindly! Stick to the edges!
3. Technique. Practice CONTROLLED skiing. Soft skiing! Carve skiing! Practice on easy slopes ,,then impress your friends on harder slopes!
4. Believe in yourself! If you apply all of the above,,,you will be able to ski ice. Believe in yourself!
Allow the skis to do their thing! Trust them!

Finally skiing is fun,,so enjoy yourself!

Hope this helps some of you enjoy the ice!

Pavel

Pavelski
reply to 'How do you handle skiing on ICE?'
posted Jul-2011

I did forget ONE major point!

There are two contexts in regards to ice and skiing!

The first is ice all around from top to bottom! From one side of slope to other side! In short it is like a skating rink!
Strange to say, but this is the easiest and less dangerous condition to ski on! It is what I love since the conditions are "consistent" ! All you need is "soft" edging and let the skis fly! Great soaring !
The most dangerous elements are the flying bodies !!!!! Just be ahead of them!

The really dangerous context is in varied snow/ice conditions! This is where you MUST learn to read slope and understand how skiers think and ski!

Ice spots do not happen by chance! They appear often due to skiers turning all at same spot,,or stopping at same spot! You must learn to locate these dangerous spots!

You will find them ;
-near sharp turns
-near steeper dips on slope
-at bottom of steeper sections
-at end of a long straight slope ( where "hackers" have picked up speed,,,then realized,,oh,,,,,)
-near narrow sections of slope ( usually at left since most skiers use dominant right leg to turn left in an emergency!
-near rocks
- at the bottom just before you turn to get on lift

I have in my mind a "file" of dangerous sections for every ski resort I skied! I come back after 5 years and still find THAT icy section !!!!

Hope this helps you get over your ICE neurosis!

Pavel

Topic last updated on 03-October-2011 at 22:05