Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......
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Your post had some interesting things in it and some good advice. Your best advice though was to practice. If you do practice with better scenarios like deep burials (use a rucksack) not only will get familiar with a probe but you'll understand it's not possible to find anything other than a near surface burial without one, if you've been practicing with beeps buried near the surface that's a good start but only a start.
As admin pointed out, you need that trinity, beep, probe and shovel. You also need a good shovel and to practice in avalanche debris with it to be sure it's a good shovel and zou can use it effectively.
Well everyone on adjoining tables knew for sure that they were hard core skiers :D
I believe I made no suggestion that Avalanche Level 2 would negate the value of wearing a Transceiver whilst off piste, though it would seem that in this case the risk of needing rescue from the restaurant, led to the whole party transmitting during their waiter served meal :D
Perhaps they used to be Boy Scouts or summat?
You may have a point there, though I also take off my helmet and body armour whilst I'm eating lunch in a restaurant. I'm less interested in what others are doing, and not interested in emulating sheepclub behaviour.
A friend had his transceiver stolen from a restaurant, it was hanging on the back of his chair whilst he ate lunch. I keep mine close to me as a rule.
How often do you change your batteries in your beep?
How do you know that this has been done to your request? Do you see the hire shop put in a fresh set of batteries?
The only way to ensure that your batteries are fresh is to put in your own from a new pack, yet you don't do this?
Given that you say you like to wear your transceiver at lunch if others' in the establishment are wearing theirs, how do you know that the batteries in your rented transceiver will not go flat as as result of this?
Going back to your post on page 1 you are suggesting to folks that they:
Yet, you don't own one. I'm intrigued as to why?
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Started by Meercat in Avalanche Safety 20-Aug-2008 - 54 Replies
RossF
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
I can't say I've had a problem in practise witha probe, they tend to go right through to the ground if they can even make it that far-damn rockies snow pack 8)
Ise
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
Meercat wrote:Re. Probes.
I wonder whether or not in the panic of a situation a person with a transceiver and a probe will in their haste to detect a burried person resort to using the probe rather than pinpoint using the transceiver. Sure, a probe for comfirming that you're in the right place to dig is good - but what if the transceiver says 'yes' and the probe is unable to penetrate deep enough or bangs up against some packed snow/ice? Vital seconds could be lost re-probing in the area.
That said, probes are not there for no reason - and it's what the rescue teams use. So they must be the way to go.
Your post had some interesting things in it and some good advice. Your best advice though was to practice. If you do practice with better scenarios like deep burials (use a rucksack) not only will get familiar with a probe but you'll understand it's not possible to find anything other than a near surface burial without one, if you've been practicing with beeps buried near the surface that's a good start but only a start.
As admin pointed out, you need that trinity, beep, probe and shovel. You also need a good shovel and to practice in avalanche debris with it to be sure it's a good shovel and zou can use it effectively.
Bandit
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
Admin wrote:Meercat - thanks for taking the time to post that; avalanches are definitely something we should all consider.
Meercat wrote:I did not mention probes because vacationers rarely carry them
IME that's not generally the case; pretty much everyone I've ever encountered with a bleeper has had "The Holy Trinity" of transceiver, shovel and probe. Whether or not they've had enough practice with them is another issue but they do generally go together.
bandit wrote:The risk level was posted at 2 that day.
Tsk, tsk... Level 2 on the Avalanche Risk Scale is still "Moderate"; that's a moderate risk of death to you or your companions, so quite enough to justify wearing a bleeper.
And remember that's the general risk level for the area - there will be individual slopes that are far riskier; even in the most benign conditions. The only time there is zero risk of avalanche is when there's no snow (at all).
Although presumably the risk was a little lower in the restaurant... 8)
But fair dos... if you take it off at lunchtime, you need to remember to put it back on again when you leave!
Well everyone on adjoining tables knew for sure that they were hard core skiers :D
I believe I made no suggestion that Avalanche Level 2 would negate the value of wearing a Transceiver whilst off piste, though it would seem that in this case the risk of needing rescue from the restaurant, led to the whole party transmitting during their waiter served meal :D
Perhaps they used to be Boy Scouts or summat?
Edited 2 times. Last update at 21-Aug-2008
Meercat
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
This question of 'to wear or not to wear' your transceiver during lunch is an interessting one - and one that I have asked myself, and here is what I've decided.
1. If everybody else in the restaurant is not wearing one - then I take mine off and put it with the hats and gloves etc.
2. If other people are wearing theirs, I keep mine on as it's hassle to take it off and put it on.
One is in danger of being 'type cast'..... There are some people who will observe you and think 'There goes a newbie for the first time - probably with a guide - and they think they're something special'.
But at the end of the day, does it matter - so long as you have the thing in the right place when it really is needed?
1. If everybody else in the restaurant is not wearing one - then I take mine off and put it with the hats and gloves etc.
2. If other people are wearing theirs, I keep mine on as it's hassle to take it off and put it on.
One is in danger of being 'type cast'..... There are some people who will observe you and think 'There goes a newbie for the first time - probably with a guide - and they think they're something special'.
But at the end of the day, does it matter - so long as you have the thing in the right place when it really is needed?
Meercat
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
Here also, a link to the world's most recognised avalanche research centre in Davos, Switzerland.
http://www.slf.ch/welcome-en.html - There are some interesting articles.
Unfortunately, the whole site doesn't translate into English, and also it can be hard to find what you're looking for. So, here is a link to where you start to explore the current snow situation in Switzerland (only) - http://www.slf.ch/swiss-snow/rk50a_snow.html - and for the current avalanche risk - http://www.slf.ch/swiss-snow/rb50dc.html - you can translate the legend 1 to 5 as being none, possible, dangerous, high danger, very dangerous.
Looking at these pages however, is no substitute for checking your immediate locaility's situation - which might be higher than depicted.
Ps. If you visit Davos, you can visit the Avalanche Research Institute on Weissfluhjoch.
http://www.slf.ch/welcome-en.html - There are some interesting articles.
Unfortunately, the whole site doesn't translate into English, and also it can be hard to find what you're looking for. So, here is a link to where you start to explore the current snow situation in Switzerland (only) - http://www.slf.ch/swiss-snow/rk50a_snow.html - and for the current avalanche risk - http://www.slf.ch/swiss-snow/rb50dc.html - you can translate the legend 1 to 5 as being none, possible, dangerous, high danger, very dangerous.
Looking at these pages however, is no substitute for checking your immediate locaility's situation - which might be higher than depicted.
Ps. If you visit Davos, you can visit the Avalanche Research Institute on Weissfluhjoch.
Bandit
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
Meercat wrote:This question of 'to wear or not to wear' your transceiver during lunch is an interessting one - and one that I have asked myself, and here is what I've decided.
1. If everybody else in the restaurant is not wearing one - then I take mine off and put it with the hats and gloves etc.
2. If other people are wearing theirs, I keep mine on as it's hassle to take it off and put it on.
One is in danger of being 'type cast'..... There are some people who will observe you and think 'There goes a newbie for the first time - probably with a guide - and they think they're something special'.
But at the end of the day, does it matter - so long as you have the thing in the right place when it really is needed?
You may have a point there, though I also take off my helmet and body armour whilst I'm eating lunch in a restaurant. I'm less interested in what others are doing, and not interested in emulating sheepclub behaviour.
A friend had his transceiver stolen from a restaurant, it was hanging on the back of his chair whilst he ate lunch. I keep mine close to me as a rule.
How often do you change your batteries in your beep?
Edited 1 time. Last update at 22-Aug-2008
Meercat
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
I don't change my batteries - as I hire mine in the resort and ask them to ensure that the batteries are fresh. (I give it back at the end of each day).
I wonder though, equally as important as batteries, how many people check that they've put theirs in to 'send' mode before setting off - particulalrly after lunch - when they've been 'playing' with it?
In addition, those couple of minutes whilst you're waiting for the last person to finish adjusting their hat/helmet, gloves, scarf, stick loops, sun scream, lip salve, goggles (and then realise that they have to take their gloves off to do up a zip that they undid to get the lip salve out etc etc) - that one person goes into 'search' mode to see if - in fact each person does have theirs switched on - in send mode? You'd be surprised.....
I wonder though, equally as important as batteries, how many people check that they've put theirs in to 'send' mode before setting off - particulalrly after lunch - when they've been 'playing' with it?
In addition, those couple of minutes whilst you're waiting for the last person to finish adjusting their hat/helmet, gloves, scarf, stick loops, sun scream, lip salve, goggles (and then realise that they have to take their gloves off to do up a zip that they undid to get the lip salve out etc etc) - that one person goes into 'search' mode to see if - in fact each person does have theirs switched on - in send mode? You'd be surprised.....
Bandit
reply to 'Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......' posted Aug-2008
Meercat wrote:I don't change my batteries - as I hire mine in the resort and ask them to ensure that the batteries are fresh. (I give it back at the end of each day).
How do you know that this has been done to your request? Do you see the hire shop put in a fresh set of batteries?
The only way to ensure that your batteries are fresh is to put in your own from a new pack, yet you don't do this?
Given that you say you like to wear your transceiver at lunch if others' in the establishment are wearing theirs, how do you know that the batteries in your rented transceiver will not go flat as as result of this?
Going back to your post on page 1 you are suggesting to folks that they:
Meercat wrote:
Get all the equipment you can sensibly afford and carry.
A transceiver is an absolute minimum.
Yet, you don't own one. I'm intrigued as to why?
Topic last updated on 12-February-2009 at 06:28