"I am a very good skier" - Discuss

Tony_H wrote:. Anyway, moving on, I think the term "advanced" or "expert" can only be used for instructors, professionals, and people who can ski down anything in any conditions.

quote]


This is the only bit of your post I don't really agree with.

If you look in a Snow and Rock brochure (or other, similar) there is what I think is a fairly well-recognised guide to ability.

There are many skiers who fall into the "advanced" and even "expert" category who are niether instructor, nor some other form of professional.

It is possible to be expert in one particular "discipline" - on piste/off piste/mogul/park without being so good in one or more of the others.

I, for one, would not want to be regarded as an intermediate, based on being pretty poor in the powder, when I am quite happy on any grade of on-piste and can ski it very comfortably!

Edited 1 time. Last update at 01-Aug-2008

Try that one again, H.

No.

I've edited it, as I hadn't finished making my point! :oops:

And no, I don't know how I've quoted you as saying something you didn't.

Double :oops:

:lol: ...He he, I now think I'm a way better skier than I was 20 years ago, but I'm still nowhere near as good as I thought I was 20 years ago... :roll:

The problem with estimating your own (or anyone else's) skiing ability is defining what aspect of skiing you're referring to, and who the reference are.

It's perfectly possible (and pretty common) for people nowadays to be perfectly elegant and skillful on-piste carvers, but to be utterly lost as soon as they step off a groomed run. Similarly, you can be a baggy-trousered hotshot pulling inverted 360s in the park... and not be able to hold an edge on hard-pack.

But does it matter?

Confidence counts for a lot with skiing, and as long as it doesn't lead you into danger it's probably a good thing to think of yourself as a "good skier"; if you only ever ski pitches that you "know" are within your ability then you'll not progress.

I think a good skier is anyone who knows they're not quite as good as they could be... you can be a good beginner, or a good intermediate.

An expert skier doesn't care; he (or she) just skis - anything, anywhere, anytime.

As with most things in life, real experts let their skiing do the talking.

Fantastic post by Jan. Tony, as much as I love to disagree with you point well made and duely taken.

I think it is near impossible for someone to gauge their own ability unless they have evidence for it or some description of qualification. I would love to say i am a great skier but by whose measure? By Bennyboys for example I might be not bad but from Jan's point of view I may have nothing on his racing buddies. I guess I would leave it down to someone else to make that judgement instead of coming across modest to the point where I know i'm fairly decent or cocky.

Tony and Admin man are quiet right that you can really not be an expert unless you can ski anwhere in any conditions at any speed.
I like Tony have only skiied about 10 weeks or so and thought I was a great skiier as I had only skiied in good to perfect conditions. Then in April this year in heavy powder when I tried to keep up with my very fast snowboard mate I soon found out the truth. Torn ACL in right knee and no skiing for me untill winter 09 :( :( :(
I think people will always have a better opinion of themselves as it is human nature to be a bit boastfull particuarly if you are really enjoying yourself.
Pavel, Jan, Trencher and all the other regular posters are real experts as far as I can make out reading their posts the last 2 years or so.

This is one of the best recent postings, but firstly, I think we should leave out personalising the Ollie bit. It seems that he has youth and confidence on his side, and as he gains experience, he will work out for himself his relative ability. Inadvertantly, what he has done, and Jan has picked it up, is raised the subject.

I guess that Jan & I ski pretty much at a similar speed down the Niederau pisted runs, something under or over 4 minutes. Yet Jan skis in a totally different style to myself, he is an open knee modern carver, I am a hips and knees together skier. We are both fast, competent piste skiers. I would not hesitate to call Jan an expert, in the conditions that I have seen him ski.

I occasionally ski with the best Austrian instructors, as I know Jan does. I have rarely seen the best Austrians ski down the main off-piste runs. They clearly can do. But in Niederau, when you ski on the Stuck abfaert, you are on view to all those going up in the Gondola. Sooner or later, you will fall.... and be seen.

However, some of the less experienced instructors do not cope well with off piste. So ~ are they expert skiers?

I think this is an issue of labelling. Competences, Capabilities, Intermediates, Experts.

I was recently reminded that early this year marked forty years of skiing for me. (Must have started when I was one year old :wink:) Every day up the Gondola, I am thinking of what can be done today, that is new for me. What bit of technique needs slight changes.

Then I get off the Gondola, and ruin it all by going down as fast as possible, most times. Somedays though, something new just sticks.

The point about the speed of learning being connected with the introduction of carvers has been made. There is also the aspect, that with the improvements of artificial snow quality and piste management, few people now, encounter ice. I mean real ice, not marbled snow. So one day, they are a good intermediate, the next, they can feel like a second day beginner.

Man, it is a tough sport.

As all the others have said, "another of Jan's excellent posts".

In evaluation be it skiing, intelligence, attitudes, work there are two ways to look at process:

1. To compare to others. In Jan's case with World Class racers or wife, or sons.

2, To a "standard" established by the ski gods,,,ie technical committees from ski instructor organizations.

Each approach has its pros and cons.

In skiing 90% of skiers do the " comparing to "expert" skiers since many do not even know the "standards" established by instructors!

Most use "rough" estimates how better they are based on;
-I got to bottom before him
-I skied black diamonds brfore him
-I fell less than him
-I cried less than him
-I have less bruises than him etc.....

Poor way to evaluate and poor way to progress!


The second method is a better to evaluate self and others.
That is the compare skiing to a set of "levels", "criterions" or observable behaviors! This approach is called criterion-reference evaluation!

Every skiing nation has well established levels! Problem is that only well "educated" instructors know them!

So much for the theory!

How do I evaluate myself?

I have three levels of personal goals

The first is technical. You know those silly things that we all MUST do to be better, faster, more efficient! I am never satisfied with myself since I constantly find "problems" in my skiing! I rate myself in the 50 percentile for my level!
This means I must always learn. Must focus on getting better!


The second catagory is called physical.
I constantly evaluate how I ski physically. I want to ski fast all day,,,all week thus I look at my physical state while skiing and at end! I want to "recover" quickly after a hard days skiing,,so I do light exercise after skiing! I hate having aching muscles so if this happens,,I give myself failling grades and work harder at "getting ready for skiing"


The third catagory which I evaluate, and for me now is my emotional state! How do I feel at end of day?

That is the most important factor for me now,,yet it is the most complex! It is a mix of the two above,,but also nature and others play into the calculation!

Yes I have had perfect 100% ski days,,,but I must admit they were in the minority! The skiing partner was too,,,,,! The snow was too,,,,,! The wind was too,,,,,

In conclusion I recommend NOt evaluating self to others! Slowly this approach is phasing out in schools since in such approach there always will be a loser!

I recommend evaluating self to YOUR establihed skiing goals! That means you must educate yourself on what is required in an effective effecient skiing style!

Allow me to finish with an example.
Bode Miller while in private ski school was a real "problem" and was always evaluated in the lowest quartile of his class since he did not "fit" the America ski racing pattern!
Yet in all junior championships he was tops!

The ultimate "criteria" in ski racing is time,,,period!


Before Jean-Claude Killy's time "sitting back on ski tails" was a NO NO,,,once he became gold medalist,,,,it was the rage!

You have to decide what you want in skiing! You set your criterion and strive for it! You will so much more happy and others will not determine your level of happiness!

Jan,
The gift I am sending you, at the end in your heart, you will know my level of skiing,,,,just look at that smile!