Pole Planting

Trencher wrote:

ise wrote:
would that mean you didn't have lessons? I can't see any main stream school giving lessons without poles, it's not part of CSIA or PSIA teaching practice I'm fairly certain.

Deliberately. I wanted skiing to be an experiment in guided discovery and cross benching concepts from snowboarding. I didn't want to pick up any bad habits from instructors ) Actually, what I mean is that I didn't want to be infuenced by conventional technique as taught by most instructors. Of course I have been inflenced to some degree as I pick and choose ideas from observation, reading, and technical discussion with people who are instructors and coaches. I don't just want to know how to do something, I want to understand it at the conceptual level. I don't accept technique at face value, I need to break it down and see what's really happening.

all of which an instructor can do, that's why it's so hard to become one :-)

this isn't 30 years when anyone could turn up and if they'd got a ski school jacket in the right size you were in, it's a modern professional thing now constantly evolving and instructors are required to keep up. Even at the cutting edge they're all using poles of course :lol:

Apologies, I am thread-stealing because another thread got locked out, before I could answer it.

Trencher asked the question ~ "What is the fundamental flaw in hip counter ?"

I was really sorry to read the inconsiderate and rude replies to this. It just isn't necessary.

Right, back to the question. For me personally, there is an increasing difficulty with using hip counter, because age hits me two fold, the muscle strength required to effect the required body spring tension, and also the mobility issue.

But you are asking for the fundamental flaw, not a personal constraint. I had to think this right through the manouvre. The only issue I could think is that when you carry out the hip counter, if it is too dynamic, or on too steep a slope, or on unstable snow, or a combination of these.....

You might start an avalanche.

That may not be what you had in mind Trencher, but it's my conclusion. If it is not what you had in mind then I would be pleased to know what you think.

Disregarding the above post as I believe that Admin locking it was justified and maybe we should adhere by the rules of the board or at least what has been decided upon.

As well as many development programmes encourage independent thinking the CSIA (as well as others, I would imagine) encourage it with a "if it works for you, do it" attitude. It is not a set progressive teaching model, if someone comes and they can make parallel turns for example then we don't make them work through the progression from the beginning, we are taught to work with what we are given. In terms of technical progression the view is also that as long as someone does eventually visit Point B from Point A it is not so important how they get there, be it via point C or by the crow flight.

I think all babies should be sent to school so they can learn to walk "properly", and without learning "bad habits." We can't have individuality!

OK. All sarcasm aside: There are many ways to get to the same point. Human bodies (and minds) are ALL different. Some people learn to ride a bike without training wheels. Some need the wheels. Why is the self-initiated route looked down on? Maybe it is in the creative mind to find a better, or at least different way?

I, personally, don't find pole planting to be a benefit, but I don't condemn those who do. And, I certainly don't try to tell them why they have to, or why they are a bad skier because they don't pole plant. I do find it interesting that no other sport requires the use of an apparatus to know how to change body posture. . .

Edit to remove post.

Pole planting is great, I love doing it and after my mini vacation last Saturday I GREATLY improved my planting and carving. Even though I didn't get past the greens. I honed my skills. But yeah moving th hips in conjunction with the poles is a fantastic symphony.

Dshenberger wrote:


I, personally, don't find pole planting to be a benefit, but I don't condemn those who do. And, I certainly don't try to tell them why they have to, or why they are a bad skier because they don't pole plant. I do find it interesting that no other sport requires the use of an apparatus to know how to change body posture. . .

I can't quite see the logic in your last sentence. To me, poles are an aid to skiing, for steeps, bumps, flat sections, for balance and support. I can ski okay without them, but why would I want to, it's a PITA.

I'm sure I'll be accused of being a 'sheep', and just blindly following the norm, but show me an expert downhill skiier, or slalom skiier, or extreme skiier, who is carrying poles 'cos he/she thinks they're an attractive accessory, and I'll stop using them.

This being said, me as an pretty good intermediate, mostly drag them along the ground, until I get to a slope needing a bit more control, ie, moguls.