Avalanche Awareness - It's no joke......

Sorry, you raised the thread within a section of the forum called "Avalanche Safety". Me Bad.
Of course the fact remains that there is no Zero on the recognised chart. If there was a status of zero risk, then these "experts" would have created the chart to recognise this.

1. I did not say anywhere that I was advised not to carry a probe. That is your presumption. So, Really - you don't have to worry about avoiding anybody.

You failed to mention the "Holy Trinity" in your original post. then when asked about it you actually said:

I did not mention probes because vacationers rarely carry them, although as I said - as much equipment as you can.

Yes - ABS - but not the sort you get in your car.....

which of course is not true, at least in any part of Europe where I have skied off piste with others, either with or without a guide. You said that you had consulted experts.Perhaps you could name them and list their qualifications so that folks who read this thread can make their own minds up.
Perhaps you are American and you should really be posting here:
http://tetongravity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=3

5. If I need a course - I will surely take one. One course I do not need though, is one telling me to take a course. If, as you say, nobody is an expert, and you choose to make rude comments about my abilities to outline an area sofar not covered here, then maybe you can do better

Every mountain professional that I have encountered has felt the need to take regular mountain skills training, studying snow, avalanche conditions, meteorology, effects of wind, search, rescue et al. Clearly you feel that such study is something you don't feel you need. That's fine, each to their own. No-one here has made any rude comments about your abilities, and quite frankly if they read the thread, they will likely feel as I do that further discussion is pointless.

Ta ta
:D

Meercat wrote:I'd just like to clarify a few things before ending my contribution to this thread - which in my first post I indicated that I am no expert - but I offer what I do know......

1. I hire equipment from the guide I pay a large amount of money to. He is a fully fledged affiliated guide - who's *primary* role is the safety of his guests. I rely upon him for safety equipment - and in so doing - assure myself that I have recieved what they who know best can provide.

2. There is such a thing as 'none' when it comes to avalanche danger. When there is no snow at all.

No one is nit picking, I was trying to gently help you realize you weren't very informed. You very clearly connected the avalanche scale with a risk level of none, that's totally wrong and a basic error, it's not minor point it means you don't understand the scale. When you share this with other people you are compromising their safety and potentially putting their lives at risk.

As for experts, guides are not the only people holding professional training or qualifications in snow pack
Analysis, slope asssessment and avalanche awareness.

How often do avalanches cross over on to pistes and should piste only skiers be more aware of the potential for this happening?


Rob

cc_7up2005 wrote:How often do avalanches cross over on to pistes and should piste only skiers be more aware of the potential for this happening?


Rob

A better question is if they're crossing onto open pistes, that's exceptionally rare so it's not something piste skiers need to concern themselves about at any mainstream well managed ski station.

You mention a mobile phone is essential - as is a beacon.

However it should be noted that the mobile phone should be OFF until needed. If you have a mobile and beacon that are both on at the same time the mobile interferes with the flux lines the beacon sends out and makes pinpointing you almost impossible.

Before heading off piste everyone in the part should not only check their beacon is transmitting - but also that their mobile phones are switched off too. Otherwsie you might as well not be wearing the beacon!

Nagrjuna wrote:You mention a mobile phone is essential - as is a beacon.

However it should be noted that the mobile phone should be OFF until needed. If you have a mobile and beacon that are both on at the same time the mobile interferes with the flux lines the beacon sends out and makes pinpointing you almost impossible.

Before heading off piste everyone in the part should not only check their beacon is transmitting - but also that their mobile phones are switched off too. Otherwsie you might as well not be wearing the beacon!

Actually, there's no evidence that a victim's mobile phone interferes with a searchers transceiver.

ise wrote:

cc_7up2005 wrote:How often do avalanches cross over on to pistes and should piste only skiers be more aware of the potential for this happening?


Rob

A better question is if they're crossing onto open pistes, that's exceptionally rare so it's not something piste skiers need to concern themselves about at any mainstream well managed ski station.

On one trip to Tignes, they actually closed the piste half way down and a big gang of us had to sit down and wait while a helicopter came in, dropped some explosives on the mountain beside us and waited to see if they had brought down a major overhang :shock: If they had, it would probably have come down over the piste below us.

They didn't :shock: :shock: :shock: and then they reopened the piste :!: . I have never seen a bunch of fairly basic skiers move so fast in my life :roll: Interesting experience but a reminder that you do need to be careful whereever you are :wink: .

ise wrote:

Nagrjuna wrote:You mention a mobile phone is essential - as is a beacon.

However it should be noted that the mobile phone should be OFF until needed. If you have a mobile and beacon that are both on at the same time the mobile interferes with the flux lines the beacon sends out and makes pinpointing you almost impossible.

Before heading off piste everyone in the part should not only check their beacon is transmitting - but also that their mobile phones are switched off too. Otherwsie you might as well not be wearing the beacon!

Actually, there's no evidence that a victim's mobile phone interferes with a searchers transceiver.

"All current avalanche beacons suffer from interference from portable telephones but this varies according to the mobile phone and beacon (PH found the same in tests). The interference is generally in a range of 10-50cm but sometimes as far as several meters. Analogue beacons can pick up phantom beeps and the LEDS can flash randomly. Digital beacons emit random beeps and the direction and distance readings are unstable. It is important to note that a transmitting beacon is unaffected so a mobile phone on a victim should not cause any problems.

It is important to note that when members of the rescue services make a search with an avalanche beacon they ask for what is called “radio silence”, that is all electrical equipment in the search area must be turned off.

Bernard GIRAUDON (Société Nic Impex)"

Some advice from Patrollersupply.com...

"** Mobile phones should be switched off when searching **
Mobile phones can seriously disrupt the ability of an avalanche beacon
to receive a transmitting beacon's signal"

Something from Pieps' own website...

"Due to their nature, ALL of beacons are very sensitive against electrical and magnetical interference.
If a Ferrite-antenna is exposed to the field of an magnet (magnet of a speaker of a radio equipment in extremely close proximity, less than 5 cm), not only the signal strength (send AND receive) can be influenced significantly. Also the magnetic property of the Ferrite material is changed, due to the magnetic remanence – this can last a couple of minutes (up to 15 minutes)."

Personally I don't need an exhuastive study to prove the extent of inteference between each model of mobile and each model of beacon - its a lot safer to simply switch the mobile off when you leave the piste - who wants to field phonecalls while skiing powder anyway?