Level of skiing required for different slopes

I skied the Grand Valira area in 2005, based in Soldeu.
I don't remember any narrow gully runs like that, they tend to go for wide pistes. I think that would be black if it was in Soldeu.
The only decent black I can remember was under the Soldeu gondola called Avet. That was steep and an absolute blast. That would be black wherever it was.
Most of the blacks were very disappointing little links between other pistes of only a couple of hundred metres.

andyhull wrote:I skied the Grand Valira area in 2005, based in Soldeu.
I don't remember any narrow gully runs like that, they tend to go for wide pistes. I think that would be black if it was in Soldeu.
The only decent black I can remember was under the Soldeu gondola called Avet. That was steep and an absolute blast. That would be black wherever it was.
Most of the blacks were very disappointing little links between other pistes of only a couple of hundred metres.

I tell you what Andy you have refreshed my memory, I remember skiing that run under the chair In Soldeu ... gosh back in 1992, it was sheet ice after skiing the day in 70 degree sun sunshine, I say ski after the first fifty meters I skied rest on my Ar*e after catching a bare patch :evil:

Though the resort is a fair size, most of the areas are of very similar character so you lose the variety you would get in say Les Arcs, Le Plagne (other great intermediate resorts IMO). It is more of the same rather than a large varied ski area. The runs are largely cruising reds and blues and though there are a few short genuine black sections on the black runs these are typically only a few hundred metres long and with good run out areas, so manageable by almost every skier. There is not much vertical drop in the resort so it is not uncommon to do almost every run top to bottom non stop. The various resorts also have the rep of getting bad weekend crowds these days but can't confirm these myself but naturally resorts are busier and weekends with local traffic.

Piste grading was flattering. Blues would be green in France, reds would be French blues, and blacks would be French reds, except the Avet, which was a true black run of proper steepness.

Americans/Canadians like to give ability levels numbers more so than the europeans so this may be a useful guide (not in my words but help to quantify a little better):

Level One: "Never-Ever"
Level One skiers are first time skiers who have never skied before.

Level Two
Level Two skiers are cautious novices who are able to do a " snow plow" (wedge) turn both ways and are able to stop, but linking turns smoothly may be difficult. Level Two skiers may have skied once or twice before.

Level Three
Level Three skiers are confident novices who are able to stop and make round snow plow turns on easy beginner trails.

Level Four
Level Four skiers are cautious intermediate skiers who can link turns but still moderate speed. Level Four skiers ski in a small wedge and their skis may even be parallel at the end of the turn on green or easy blue trails. Level Four is a transition level in which skiers will begin to ski more blue intermediate runs.

Level Five
Level Five skiers are intermediates who are confident on easy blue runs and ski mostly parallel but may at times use the wedge to begin a turn or to stop. Level Five skiers may be cautious on intermediate trails that are slightly steep or icy.

Level Six
Level Six skiers confidently make parallel turns on blue runs but do not ski many advanced trails. Level Six skiers use their poles to time turns. A Level Six skier is interested in learning to ski better on more challenging terrain.

Level Seven
Level Seven skiers ski controlled parallel turns and can ski very well on blue trails. Level Seven skiers can control their speed and rhythm on black diamond trails, but they are looking to ski on challenging trails with better style. Level Seven skiers can adjust the size and length of their turns and are learning to ski on a variety of different types of snow and terrain.

Level Eight
Level Eight skiers ski with good technique on all terrain and snow conditions. Level Eight skiers can ski moguls and are able to ski black diamond trails with confidence using carved turns.

Level Nine
Level Nine skiers enjoy the challenge of difficult ski trails and ski moguls, steeps, and other black diamond terrain.

The Val'D run is typical of what is wrong in Euro run description. There seems to be no effective process of classifying runs. As Andy says, it isn't just the beginners that are inconvenienced, and in their case, put in danger, it also wrecks the run for more experienced skiers.

I agree it seem haphazard.

Generally though I am not keen on blacks. Too much like hard work (and some of the ungraded runs are worse). But at Mayerhofen last year there were a lot of Brits and Dutch around, and I guess they had some kind of mental blockage about black runs. As a result they were strugling on over-skied, over-boarded reds, full of carnage, with people falling off snowboards and skis every ten seconds. The black runs (including a super-steep one called hari kari or something) were noticeably easier, because almost empty, and in far better condition.

Having said that, the black would not have been easier if icy. It seems really hard to make general rules. From my point of view the only real difference is that if you fall on a black, there is a risk you will not be able stop sliding, whereas on a blue that is unlikely. For this reason blue runs seem safer, and I prefer them.

Innsbrucker wrote:I am not keen on blacks. Too much like hard work (and some of the ungraded runs are worse). But at Mayerhofen last year there were a lot of Brits and Dutch around, and I guess they had some kind of mental blockage about black runs. As a result they were strugling on over-skied, over-boarded reds, full of carnage, with people falling off snowboards and skis every ten seconds. The black runs (including a super-steep one called hari kari or something) were noticeably easier, because almost empty, and in far better condition.

Mayrhofen only has something like 3 blacks, including the Hari Kari, and let me tell you -that is anything but easy!!! Its the steepest slope in Austria as it happens!
Mayrhofen has lots of reds, many of them quite short in comparison to other resorts, and in particular the runs off the mountain (1, 6 and 11 as well as 16 further round Horberg) do get busy and congested particularly later in the day as people head off. These runs do tend to get moguled up by the end of the day, and I have seen a lot of people struggle on these runs. 1, 11 and 6 are actually no more than blues IMO but 16 is tough and has a part which gets no sun and ices heavily.
Theres a black off Horberg, 17, which is steep and has a camber on it, but its quite wide and as you say not usually crowded at all.
It has a viciously steep finish though which would scare anyone not up to confident intermediate level.

I have to say that having skied with a number of people at different levels, too much focus is put on the colour of the run. Some friends wont touch a red as they think its too hard for them, whereas in truth some of these reds would have been perfect for them - quieter, wider, and a with steeper slope to enable them to actually ski and get some turns in to practise rather than bumbling across a blue, poling with their sticks in order to maintain some element of movement.

Reds IMO are the best runs to aim for as I find many inexperienced skiers wont bother with them as above, and also because they will probably be in better condition without these people on them. On the other hand, the more experienced skiers tend to fly about on reds (myself included), but my experience tells me that the problematic slopes in terms of accidents are the ones where the lesser experienced or not so confident skiers mix with the better more confident skiers like the ones you mention in mayrhofen.

But I really dont think people should get as hung up about the colour of a slope as they seem to. Your own confidence will tell you what you think you can handle, but not all reds blues or blacks have the same difficulty. In fact I skied a blue in St Anton that was harder than some blacks Ive skied.

All of which means.......well, I dont really know, other than to suggest that piste classification is very hit and miss depending on where you ski!!!

I was told that slope grading is relative to particular resort/mountain, that's it in the same place blue would be easier than red and red would be easier than black, but it's not necessarily true that a blue in one resort will be easier than the red in another one. Also a steep but wide run may have a lower grading than less steep but more exposed run.

An example of ungraded being harder than black:

I read Hari Kari is steepest in Austria. It has the advantage of a run-off. There is a steeper run in Austria, marked and with lift, but does not 'count' because not pisted. And NOT black, the line on the map is red. I never fancied skiing it (yet) because there is nowhere to go if you fall except down: http://ski.inmontanis.info/v/Austria/Tirol/Nordpark-2004w05/02280080_G.jpg.html