End to ski hosting in France

Thank you, SwingBeep!

Ally, social dumping is a serious issue. Tourism is supposed to boost employment in the host country, but you arrive at the situation where a foreign TO rents a chalet from the owner residing elsewhere and brings along all the personnel required to run it and sells it as a full-catering.. It cuts the locals out from being able to afford these job.

That's not the main point.

Tourism brings money into the country, regardless who it's spent with. And particularly for small businesses, getting it out again incurs fees and taxes - the host nation always benefits from increased trade and a net influx of cash.

Tourism or any other business has no moral goal, at least certainly no obligation based on locale, all business is solely to create wealth, national borders are basically an inconvenience.

tin pot wrote:That's not the main point.

Tourism brings money into the country, regardless who it's spent with. And particularly for small businesses, getting it out again incurs fees and taxes - the host nation always benefits from increased trade and a net influx of cash.

Tourism or any other business has no moral goal, at least certainly no obligation based on locale, all business is solely to create wealth, national borders are basically an inconvenience.

That's why there are regulations like that. So that if TO together with tourists brings the while service personnel this personnel shouldn't be paid below local minimums.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave this thread to look after itself for a while, because I am going ski-ing, and I will be leaving home today!

I usually use lots of French services when I'm on my ski holiday. Like, I take the train, sometimes the TGV from Paris. And I use the bus to get to resort, and hire my skis in resort. I usually stay in a P&V apartment, and do my shopping in the local shops. And I have my ski lessons with the ESF. Sometimes I even ski in the French ESF classes as it gives me plenty of chance to practice my French, and a lot of amusement to the others in the class!

So, usually I am very 'good' from the point of view of using local French services and trying to learn something about French culture. But I would still like to be able to stay in a British chalet and ski with their ski host if I want to.

I expect you all to resolve the problem before I get back ;)

verbier_ski_bum wrote:Thank you, SwingBeep!

Ally, social dumping is a serious issue. Tourism is supposed to boost employment in the host country, but you arrive at the situation where a foreign TO rents a chalet from the owner residing elsewhere and brings along all the personnel required to run it and sells it as a full-catering.. It cuts the locals out from being able to afford these job.

Are the locals really cut out or is it, as in the UK that a great number of them are relatively unemployable and are given the option of benefits instead of employment. As an employer would you rather employ someone who's so motivated that they will up sticks and move 1000 miles from home or a local who thinks that you should pay the equivalent of David Beckham's salary for someone who can't make a cheese sandwich without supervision.

Local employment in the EU effectively means anyone in the EU. We are free (or should be) work as EU citizens in any EU state as if we were at home. Host countries are not permitted to put up artificial barriers to free employment.

andymol2 wrote:

verbier_ski_bum wrote:Thank you, SwingBeep!

Ally, social dumping is a serious issue. Tourism is supposed to boost employment in the host country, but you arrive at the situation where a foreign TO rents a chalet from the owner residing elsewhere and brings along all the personnel required to run it and sells it as a full-catering.. It cuts the locals out from being able to afford these job.

Are the locals really cut out or is it, as in the UK that a great number of them are relatively unemployable and are given the option of benefits instead of employment. As an employer would you rather employ someone who's so motivated that they will up sticks and move 1000 miles from home or a local who thinks that you should pay the equivalent of David Beckham's salary for someone who can't make a cheese sandwich without supervision.

Local employment in the EU effectively means anyone in the EU. We are free (or should be) work as EU citizens in any EU state as if we were at home. Host countries are not permitted to put up artificial barriers to free employment.

There is a link provided by SwingBeep and it says what EU have to say on the topic. I think it's very clear. Of course it means anyone, but they are still subject to local regulations. In this context being 'free' means that you are facing the same terms and conditions as the locals.

andymol2 wrote: Local employment in the EU effectively means anyone in the EU. We are free (or should be) work as EU citizens in any EU state as if we were at home. Host countries are not permitted to put up artificial barriers to free employment.

This assumption incorrect.

The guiding principle is that persons to whom the regulations apply are subject to the legislation of a single member state only. In the case of employed and self employed persons the legislation of the member state where the activity is carried out usually applies. This principle is referred to as lex loci laboris.

With regard to running chalet operations, the french have been at liberty to do so for the last 50+ years. However, they aren't interested in the concept themselves, as the french either self cater or stay in hotels, and they're not interested in offering a catered service to Brits.

A British run chalet in France will contribute to the local economy - many of the chalets rented are owned by locals, the food etc is bought locally, and the staff spend their 'wages' locally, whilst guests buy their lunch in locally owned mountain restaurants and rent skis from local shops, and of course most lift company employees are also locals.

In many ways they will contribute more to the local economy than the french self caterer who owns his own equipment and rocks up with a week's worth of food brought from home!