Good, used, cheap beginner ski

Innsbrucker, I'm in agreement with your g/f about avoiding big carved turns on busy novice slopes. To do otherwise is plain daft. She wants you to learn how to scrub your speed off with tail checking by the way it's reading. It's another skill along with carving. As I said on the last page, every ski ever made is a carving ski, it's all down to the skier. If you stick with skinny old skis, as you progress you will need to get longer ones, which will be more stable at speed. As I said, as an intermediate at 164cm, I used 190's. For skinny skis, head height is for beginners only. As you get faster they will likely become unstable. It's going to be your choice, if you go for modern shaped skis (lets get away from calling them carvers) your ski skills development will be quicker, but possibly more expensive, when you source newer kit. It's your decision :D

I can quite understand why it all reads as confusing. It's quite possible for novice skiers on new style equipment to be skiing black runs (single diamonds) after a week. Think back to when you were a learner on skinny skis, how many days for you?

Well, I started skiing when I was 3 years old, so I don't remember, but I would guess it was more than a week :mrgreen:

I will probably take your advise and get him a lesson on his first few days, but I should stop speculating until I have skied on my new skis and can speak from experience instead of guessing.

Innsbrucker wrote:
I am a bit confused. GF learnt to ski the old way, and told me I should learn to control speed by using short quick turns. She said that is my next goal now I can ski parallel on blue slopes. She has almost new carving skis (with releasable-heel bindings for touring). But I only ever see her doing these short wiggling turns ('weddeln' in German). So I asked her, Why do you have carving skis then, if you don't carve?' She said, 'Oh, I do carve if I go somewhere steeper and it is not so busy and it is safe to go fast. That is how I prefer to ski. But it is not suitable here.'

All I can say is that there are a lot of excuses around for not carving :wink:
Generally, people who can carve don't do "short wiggling turns" when they make skidded turns.

Innsbrucker wrote: So is she wrong about not carving on a slope full of inexperienced skiiers, where it is not safe to go fast? Or is carving now also good for well-controlled slow skiing?

It is true that when learning to carve, you are somewhat commited to a given course. This becomes much less of an issue as you get better. Also it is hard for straight lining $^%&ers (comming from behind) to anticipate a carving skier's movements, but that's the case whether the run is crowded or not. So to answer your question, crowded runs are not the place to learn to carve, but a good skier should not have a problem getting some carved turns in.

Innsbrucker wrote:
And is it important to get modern wider shorter skis (or even wider long skis?) if you are not going to be carving?

Why not make the process easier and and at the same time, not learn all those forced movements that most people need to make straighter skis turn. I think you really answered your own question above when you said the GF makes these short wiggly turns. People who learned on straighter skis make those turns and those who learned on smaller radius skis make more flowing turns.


As for speed, unless you are racing or straight lining down a steep slope, it is unlikely you will go fast enough to become unstable on a modern carving ski. The compound sidecut is directional and this helps a lot. However, people who are only used to straight skis do have some problems on carving skis, because they try to run them flat at high speed. All that is required for stability is a slight edge to one side.



Trencher

Trencher wrote:

All I can say is that there are a lot of excuses around for not carving
Generally, people who can carve don't do "short wiggling turns" when they make skidded turns.

Eeh, Trencher lad, I'm gonna have to take thee to task. Listen to this conversation , overheard on slopes above Zermatt, two years ago.

"Dad, why do you still ski in that old fashioned way."
"Because I like it"
"Why don't you learn to carve"
"I can carve"
"What! Rubbish! You can't even carve a turkey leg"
"Oh really?"

Ten minutes later, in the queue for the gondola....
"OK, you can carve, why on earth do you keep skiing like that?"
"Because carving's boring lad, it's quite restrictive, it's only one technique out of at least ten, and like I say, I ski like I do, because I like it"

And another thing Trencher.

This thing you keep calling skidding. I wonder if that is the same thing as rear edge control?

And while we are at it, I wonder if you can help here. You can still find good steep mogul fields in places like Zermatt, St Anton, several places in California. I confess as to failing completely to carve my way through these, can you help? :-)

And, ~ what about the mess that persistant "carvers" make of spring snow pistes? 18" deep grooves, man, once you get into a set of those, it's like being on the cresta bob sleigh run.

Oh, yes, nearly forgot. So you go skiing in Canada, and get to meet some good locals. "Where you say your'e from? ~ Scatland? Come with us, we're going 'noodling!"
"What"
"Don't worry, just follow us, straight down, through the forrest, just watch you don't hit a tree! And don't stop behind the big trees, cos the bears sleep under'em!" I quite confess Trencher, carving was the last thing on my mind!

On the other hand, I still miss those Trencher carve videos. Your'e the carver, Trencher :thumbup:

I abosulutly agree that there are many situation where you can not or would not want to carve turns. A nice crisp piece of corderoy is another matter. It demands to be carved on. It's an insult to the great groomer deity in the sky, not to leave lines of appreciation all over his creation.

Here's a friend of mine paying homage on a board




Trencher

Trencher wrote:

It's an insult to the great groomer deity in the sky, not to leave lines of appreciation all over his creation.

That is a wonderful piece of mountain poetry.

I feel we have a meeting of minds.

And, that is a beautiful picture.

I have only ever skiied on that kind of groomed snow in Colorado. It is pristine.

Trencher, no disrespect intended, the pictures of you carving are great, but I noticed what looks like a great deal of concentration and focus on your face, to me skiing should be more relaxing and enjoyable. Maybe I am seeing something that isn't there but if I have to think that hard to "Carve", I probably won't.

Brad