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End to ski hosting in France

End to ski hosting in France

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Started by AllyG in France - 299 Replies

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Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

felthorpe wrote:When going to a new resort I think the hosting service provides a valuable opportunity to orientate yourself at the start of the holiday. I was grateful for the hosting in Tignes in January, although after day 1 I and several others chose to form our own group. We did have someone with us still (one of our own) who knew their way around and this made life so much easier. Otherwise we may have stuck with the hosting for longer.

I personally found the ski hosting a bit fast and furious because they knew their way around so well they went everywhere at break neck speed. However some in our group enjoyed this and skied with them all week. But there were places they took us to that I would have struggled to find on my own, they showed us what they considered was the best skiing in the resort and which routes to take, which we may have missed otherwise.

I think whether you take up ski hosting or not depends on what you want out of your holiday but the option to go with someone who knows their way around should still be left available to us.

I do not agree that this French ruling is all about safety. I think the points made on here about skiing in a group being safer than on your own are valid. if I had been on my own in Tignes when I came a cropper I would still be hanging by one leg from the netting. This is enough to convince me that skiing alone is not for me.

I fully accept that I need more lessons but I also want to be able to get around the resort efficiently when not in ski school. I also want to learn about the facilities that are available and be shown the best places to eat etc. For this purpose the ski host is perfectly qualified because they have local knowledge. No ski host, no matter how pursuasive is going to teach/tell me what to do or make me ski faster than I feel comfortable with or go down a piste I don't want to. As an adult I have to take that responsibility myself.

Elf and Safety have gone mad in many parts of our daily lives and one of the most common grumbles on here is the looming possibility that helmets may be made compulsory in the future. I wish the French would let us act like grown ups when it comes to ski hosting and be responsible for our own safety, not try to ban it like we were children who can't be allowed to make these decisions for ourselves. Where will it end?


It's their country, not a British colony. They are entitled to have their own laws which some tourists might find silly, it doesn't matter as they are still laws and anyone not obeying can be prosecuted for it. I cannot see anything wrong with this picture. Acting like grown ups forst of all means accepting the law for what it is - the law. Abd British is not the only nation skiing in France, I don't think it will be wise if each single nationality is allowed to be responsible for their own safety they way they see fit to their preferences. The host country is the one that decides.

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

andymol2 wrote:It's protectionism.
Adults should be able to ski with who they like. As long as that person doesn't falsely claim to have teaching or guiding qualifications then it should be none of the authorities business.
If taking guests off piste then, as a matter of safety, an international guiding qualification and evidence of local experience should be mandatory wherever you are, be that France, Austria or Scotland.

The French whine when the UK declines to fund their agricultural policy yet use the law to favor their own nationals.

Adults should be able to ski with whoever they like but if this person skis with them for remuneration he has to be qualified. If he skis in his free time for free then the point is valid. The law in this case doesn't favour any nationals, but it favours a qualified professional against an unqualified person. If these qualifications were available only to French then we could talk about 'protectionism and nationalism'.

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

andymol2 wrote:Is the standard of teaching that much higher in France than Austria, Andorra, the USA or Canada?


I had a few lessons with ESF in Chamonix and I found them excellent. I certainly improved a lot and had real off-piste experience. My instructor was local and also had a guide's badge and took me to Vallee Blanche which was one of the best days on a mountain I've ever had. Many people learned in France and many with ESF so not sure how it compares to other countries but the standard must be good.

Felthorpe
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

Verbier_ski_bum wrote:
"It's their country, not a British colony. They are entitled to have their own laws which some tourists might find silly, it doesn't matter as they are still laws and anyone not obeying can be prosecuted for it. I cannot see anything wrong with this picture. Acting like grown ups forst of all means accepting the law for what it is - the law. Abd British is not the only nation skiing in France, I don't think it will be wise if each single nationality is allowed to be responsible for their own safety they way they see fit to their preferences. The host country is the one that decides."

Before anyone accuses me of being Frenchist, I am most definitely not and love that country and the people, food, way of life etc.

BUT

The French, like many other nations in the EU, seem to pick and choose which EU laws they will abide by and which they won't. I think this ruling will eventually turn out to be illegal under EU law, not that I think that will necessarily make any difference.

V S-B is completely correct, the French are entitled to make their own laws and visitors to their country are expected to abide by them, but that doesn't automatically make them fair or sensible! And those of us who think we are being over regulated are entitled to express our opinions.
I can see my house from here...

Mountain Addiction
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

AllyG wrote:
Mountain Addiction wrote: We own and run our chalet business but because we aren't being paid to host we aren't breaking the law :D


Are you quite sure about that?


yes... People being employed as Ski Hosts are breaking the law.

If you receive remuneration for taking people out on the mountain in any fashion you're breaking the Law. As we don't receive wages, or charge people in any fashion we aren't breaking the law.

Andymol2
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

For me the safety argument is a veiled way of legitimizing a jobs for the locals policy.

The host from the chalet I stayed at last year in Courcheval was quite clear about how it used to be. He worked for one of the chalet operators and in the past, once he'd done breakfast would have offered to take guests out to orient themselves on the mountain. Not for payment, nor to instruct them just as a friendly act to make his guests feel welcome and a bit of company for himself.

However they had had strict instructions that he could no longer do this as he and the company risked prosecution if he did as he hadn't got the requisite "qualification" even though there was no question of payment for service.

A few experienced skiers choosing to ski together is no different to the same people walking to the bar together. If I was paying him to teach me then there is a good case to state that he should have an appropriate qualification, and the same of off piste guiding. Given that we are in the EU it would not be unreasonable that the standards should be the same in all EU countries. I would have no objection to being taught by a French instructor in Scotland or by a Scot in France. It's the EU after all and should be a free market for employment for all. It most certainly is not in the ski world at least. Why are there so many more foreign instructors in Andorra than in France - simply because the is very much a closed shop. Yes there are exceptions, but not many.

Who the hell hosts me is not a safety issue so we should not be complicit in this: we are not talking about Doctors, Nurses or driving instructors.
I don't want an incompetant or a paedophile teaching my kids to ski and yes I would expect qualification to be mandatory, ideally with pan-European standards where a qualification in Austria is recognized in France, Italy or Sweden. The Swiss, like the Andorrans and Norwegians can do as they will as they are outside the EU, but those in Europe should abide by the employment rights open to all EU citizens and not abuse pseudo-safety excuses to give the locals jobs.
Andy M

Edited 2 times. Last update at 25-Feb-2013

Mountain Addiction
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

Although the French say it affects the whole of France, most of the problems on here seem to be coming out of the 3 valley area, isn't this where the British etc seem to have pretty much taken over? I can understand them wanting to take back some kind of control of the Law on their land, after all, they changed the law a few years ago with regards to serving drinks in the Chalets, so off we all had to go to get a Restaurant license, and don't get me started on what they are trying to do with Transfer driving... but I understand where they're coming from to a certain extent, I don't think they should flat out ban hosting, but unfortunately the french do only see things in black and white.

Verbier_ski_bum
reply to 'End to ski hosting in France'
posted Feb-2013

Well, requiring certain qualifications doesn't mean restricting foreigners. After all, many people learned to ski in France and they can carry on with instructor courses there to obtain necessary qualifications if this is where they want to work. Maybe there should be a pan-European standard but French is still entitled to make this standard mandatory as per their current law. And I doubt BASI 1 will ever be sufficient. BTW another TO was fined by a court for paying their chalet staff less than a French minimum wage.

Topic last updated on 22-November-2013 at 00:18