Ski chatter on steeps

Hi I'm new to this forum and would like your opinion on what could be causing my ski to chatter on steep runs. I am an aggressive skier who loves to carve on intermediate/advanced runs, but when I am on steeper pitches I have noticed that my downhill ski will start to chatter. At first I thought I was bracing against the turn with my downhill leg (which I was), so I tried to fix it by pressing forward into the turn instead of bracing down the hill. I find that if I relax and go "with the turn" the chatter is reduced...but only for left turns. I am right-leg dominant and figure that a weaker left leg could account for the difference between my right/left turns. If so, any suggestions on how to strenghten the weak-side turns?

I first noticed the chatter on my new skis - Head Wild Thangs/149 cm and thought that the short ski might be the culprit. However, I have since skied on my old SX9's/160 cm and on Volkl Supersport/170 cm. Same thing happens, so it's probably my technique. Does anybody else have this problem, and if so, what can you do to fix it? I would greatly appreciate any input.

Welcome to the forum CT

Very firm, very fast snow seems to bring out the chatter most and it is extremely annoying. Is the problem all the time or just in certain conditions ?

As I understand it, chatter is normally caused by the ski being torqued. This means that the ski is being twisted along it's length and different sections of the ski edge are trying to carve different arcs through the snow. The problem doesn't normally show up until you are going fast and carving very hard. Steeper terain makes it worse as you might carve a more full turn to control speed and the forces are greatest as you carve across the fall line. Another problem is that when the ski starts chattering, the tendency is to finish the turn early. As the turns get cut shorter and shorter, the speed gets faster and faster, and the chatter just increases.

It could be that you are now carving harder, faster and with more inclination than befor, even on your older skis.

I get it occasionally and have to try to figure out what I'm doing different that day. I play with hip counter and forward pressure and suddenly find it's gone. Angulation is often the first thing to go out the window in challenging conditions. I also think there are limits to how far you can push a given ski in some conditions.

Equipment can also be a problem. I'm sure you have good tuning. I believe on the wildthang you can play with binding placement, which may help.

I also think this is one of those subtle sensory feedback things. As you play with slight variations in technique, you pick up on small improvements in how the skis feel.

From the little I know, this is one of those problems without a definative answer.

Trencher

Trencher covered very well most of the possible causes of this "vibration"!

Here are some other possibilities or causes;

1. If it only happens in steeps think what is different in this zone.
- speed ....The faster you go the more relaxed you must be. Seems paradoxical yet just watch downhill racing and you will see how the racer with "soft" edges or touch goes better. Leg legs absorb the slope ruts rather than the skis. Most skiers "tense up" in steep terrain thus have hard legs like pillars on bridge. They should be like pistons on shocks!

- slope surface.... Typically on steep runs it is hard or icy conditions again you must allow legs to "take in" all vibrations.


2. Skis
- try renting a racing or top level ski for experts and ski down same slope.

- I noticed that you used different skis but also different lengths. I know the SX9 models and I can tell you they are "soft" skis and will vibrate at top speed.


3. Skier

- We unconsciously lean back when speed gets more than we can handle. Is that a possible cause. Get friend to videotape you.

- Try skiing very fast on intermediate run to see what happens.

4. Boots
What type boots do you have? A soft flex in the 60-70 range is best for most skiers!


May I suggest you try the following skis to determine if it is you or the skis that cause problem ( since I know they will not vibrate at sound barrier speeds), Head SL World Cup, Fischer SL World Cup, Atomic SL12. Just DO NOT LEAN BACK or else!!!!


Hope this helps you!

Thank you both for your input! The chatter only happens on steep pitches with hard snow (in New England, it's that yellow manmade ice base that's left after all the fresh snow has been scraped off). I usually have no problem holding an edge in those conditions, but on the steeps, fear becomes an issue and all my nasty old habits come back. Pavelski- I do tend to tense up on the steeps and get "in the backseat" so to speak. I am very aware of this habit and can usually self-diagnose and adjust when it happens. I will however, try to be more mindful of relaxing and skiing "softer" next time.

I have tried carving hard and fast on intermediate runs and have never had a problem with ski chatter. Trencher - I think you're right about the inclination and pressure. When I feel the ski start to chatter, I make sure that I get into the front of my boots and increase the forward pressure. I found that helps reduce the chatter. Next time, I will also adjust my hip inclination and see if that does anything.

Sidenote -My ski boots are Technica ALU Icons. Not sure what the flex is, but they are very stiff - I like the responsiveness of a stiff boot. Pavelski, could you explain how a softer boot could help fix this problem?

I'm going skiing tomorrow, so I'll try out your suggestions and let you know how it goes. Of course, it's supposed to be very warm - 60 or so. Ski chatter probably won't be an issue in the slush. :)

First let me ask you a question. CT stands for Vermont? If so where do you ski?

If you ski the front four section, you have to ski very forward!
Or
Perhaps the Castlerock section?

With new ski design you no longer have to "force" skis to turn. Thus stiff boots are really not needed. You have to place skis on edge and then play with fore pressure level.
Hard pressure will cause skis to turn aggressively and quickly.
Soft pressure will allow skis to turn more slowly.

What is very important in modern boot is a stiff medial lateral section (inside boot section) since the focus and stress is to stay on edge, thus placing maximum pressure on sides of boots!

This play of pressure is done via boots. Softer boots allow a greater range of play and feedback from skis.

All modern boots now are "softer" some even have a leather section like in old old days.

CT stands for Connecticut. We have three ski areas to speak of. I work as an instructor at one called Mount Southington. It has fourteen trails and 425 feet (129 meters) of vertical. Our season is short, with little or no natural snow. Up until last week, we had 12 inches for the season. Conditions at my mountain consist of: scratchy yellow ice, smooth blue ice, groomed ice, icy death cookies and in the spring we have slush and striped slush - kind of like skiing on astroturf. Racing is huge. Needless to say, outside of instructing there, I do most of my skiing in Vermont/New Hampshire and Maine.

I looked up the flex on my boots and it's what Technical calls 95-100. Their highest flex is 130, their lowest, 70. Each company seems to have different relative flex ratings, so from what I can tell, my boots are two steps below race flex. I can flex them well...except when it is really cold, but I'm thinking about new boots for next season anyway. I want a women's boot because I have very wide, muscular calves and find that the boots I have now tend to cut off circulation in my legs. Not to mention that orange boots clash with pink skis :) just kidding. Where are you from?

Hello, I'm new to this forum and fairly new to skiing having just got back from my 5th skiing holiday.

I'm a keen carver, infact my carve turns aren't too bad, it's my skid turns that are terrible!

pavelski, I was interested in a comment you made above;

With new ski design you no longer have to "force" skis to turn. Thus stiff boots are really not needed. You have to place skis on edge and then play with fore pressure level.
Hard pressure will cause skis to turn aggressively and quickly.
Soft pressure will allow skis to turn more slowly.

I hadn't really heard (or it hadn't sunk in) about this, especially the fore pressure to make the ski turn tighter. Could you possibly expand on this a little?

Thanks

Well, I'm not Pavel, but maybe I can be of a little benefit. . .

Since the modern ski has a "sidecut," if you set it on edge only the front and back edges touch the ground. But, when you put weight on it, while on edge, the ski is forced to bend until the whole length touches the snow in a beautiful arc! Which is why sidecut, to some degree, determines turn radius. Hence the "ease" of skiing while carving! Your body weight is causing the ski to do the work!

By applying more pressure to the fore part of the ski you are forcing the front edge to "dig in" a little harder which causes more weight to act on the ski quicker. The ski has to "bend" sooner because of centrifugal force.

Now, I wait to be corrected. :)