J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by Dave Mac

Back in Paradise, as I know it. Met up with Rustyinn, (Dave) and friend. Had a meal together, then repaired to the Bichlwirt. Herbert put in one of his great Harp performances. I have to confess, that RustyInn and I sang, accompanied by the Harp, "March of the Hebrew Slaves,(Nebucha)", in Italian! You heard it here first folks! (Unless, of course, you were in the Bichlwirt.)

And then, had the best part of the next day, skiing with Rusty Dave, a neat, competent and fast skier. Has got his skiing plan well sorted out. Good luck Rusty -Dave! Twas a very enjoyable meet up.

Have failed to meet up with SkiGirl. After a week in January, appoaching girls, asking - "Are you Paralytic?", I draw the line at trogging round Niederau, saying to the lassies- "I'm looking for a SkiGirl!" :shock: The Oberau police would be quickly into action!

Sobering thought. I got wiped out by a boarder in January, at a piste junction. He was out of control, yet it was evident he was a competent boarder.

Hopefully, there will not be too much of this.

Heck, there was me looking to get through the 100kph on the speed trap in N. this week. Maybe, maybe not.

Soell is same height and area as N. Forecast for Thur/Fri/Sat is 3cm,2cm,1cm. I would be happy to edge in those depths. Soell is a through road, so will be a priorty clearance road.

You might skite a bit through the village, but the winter tyres should be man enough.

Will give you a wave from the top of the Marbachjoch, when you are up on the Hohe Salve.

Have a good week.

Covering the point about piste machine grooming. The machines start off up the mountain at 4.30pm/4.45pm. They work until about 1.00am, depending upon how much work needs carrying out.

When there are big dumps of snow, by morning, the snow lies deep over the prepared surface. The first skiers, (those staying in hotels at the top of the mountain), hit the slopes by 8.00am, followed by those on the first Gondola, at 9.00am.

By the time the 10.00am skiers arrive, there is a degree of choppy snow.

This is the same as in any other ski resort.

It would not be safe to put piste machines up the mountain during skiing time, at least on a regular basis. There may be a specific or technical needs to do so, on the odd occasion. I have seen this happen in some North American resorts, but the runs were closed during the process.

Quick spot of historical research, extracted from Bygone Derbyshire:

"In spring, came the annual Four Inns Walk – and tragedy. As a traditional walk, originally the Three Inns, it dated back to the 1920s. In 1957, a group of Derby Rover Scouts had decided to turn the walk, of around 50 miles, into an organised team competition.

Starting at the ruined Isle of Skye Inn, near Holmfirth, in West Yorkshire, it took in both Snake Pass and Edale, where the Snake Inn and the Nag’s Head provided the second and third of the four inns, before finishing at the Cat and Fiddle, high above the Goyt Valley.

By 1964, it drew teams from all over the country. As the 240 or so competitors set off that Saturday morning, the weather was wet and cool, but offered no hint of the sudden severe conditions that were to challenge walkers later in the day. Indeed, the first teams to finish experienced few difficulties but, for those that followed, conditions quickly became dangerous.

Rain turned to snow and then into a blizzard. In all, only 22 walkers were able to complete the course. As word came of the worsening conditions, and of the non-arrival of several competitors at the various checkpoints, search parties were sent out.

Four Rover Scouts from Birmingham University were reported missing. They had been caught in temperatures barely above freezing and were battered by 30mph winds hurling snow and rain at them as they crossed Snake Pass and Alport Valley.

One Scout was found near Alport and was taken to safety but, disorientated by the conditions and his experience, he was unable to tell searchers where the others might be. The Glossop Rover crew rescued another of the party; the youngest of the group, aged just 19, died later in hospital.

With conditions worsening, the search had to be called off as darkness took hold. The following morning, a full-scale rescue operation was launched. With snow several feet deep in places, this was no easy task and it was not until Monday afternoon that the first body was recovered near a waterfall on the River Alport.

The third victim’s body was not discovered until Tuesday, by which time more than 350 people were involved in the search. This Scout had died on open moorland above Snake Pass, just 10 minutes’ walk from safety. Although the Four Inns Walk continued, and even increased in popularity, organisers and participants were forced to review safety precautions."

It was three lads that died, not two. By 1964, the start had been pushed back down the road to Holmfirth School, and the finish to a school at Buxton.

If it helps, we started from Holmfirth, and walked five and a bit miles up the Saddleworth Moor Road as far as Wessenden Head, then turned south over Black Hill.

The finish was at Buxton.

Have since completed a fair amount of fell running, nothing like the standards of Joss Naylor, Mike Reid or Ricky Wild, (who I one time partnered in a Lakeland two-day mountain marathon) I still reckon the Four Inns to be among the toughest, mostly because of the conditions, partly because I was a bit young to be involved in that kind of stuff. You need the miles under your belt.

Could even be two to three inches shorter than chin height, with no detriment to your skiing.

Where did you start Ise? It may be that the route differs now, since two lads died on one of my efforts. The Scout Association took fright.

I have no doubts about the 50 miles. At that time, mid-sixties, the course record was held by Roger Grimshaw of Manchester Uni team. Think he was around seven and a half hours.

In the year that the lads died, only a dozen teams finished, out of the eighty odd that started. It took us over 19 hours, all in blizzard white out conditions. All map and compass, no GIS! Most teams reckoned they had done over 60 miles, when the amount of retracing was taken into account.

The following year, I ran solo, in good weather, and managed sub-nine hours. For comparison, my three peaks time, (24~26 miles) was three and a half hours. The main difference, ie additional time-wise with the Four Inns, was the condition of Black Hill and Kinderscout. When the groughs are a foot deep in soft peat, it is a different race to when the stuff is nearly dry.

My time for flat road 50 milers was around the 7~7.5 hours, which roughly equates about right with 2hour 50 odd London marathon times.

The other aspect of the Four Inns route was that there were established check points, I don't know if that would have changed as well, ie are they the same locations?