J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by verbier_ski_bum

I am not missing a point. Because the point is that ski hosting is illegal in France. That it is available and legal in the USA or Canada is beyond the point here completely. You can go skiing there and enjoy the hosting - this is how it normally works, and not crying that the law is silly and you want a different one. I don't get what the fuss is about. There are still some resorts that offer this service, if this is such a deal breaker you can always go there. I know for many people it's irrelevant so on balance nothing will change much for French ski resorts. But letters to French ministers will be quite amusing to read.

AllyG wrote:I think I will write a letter to the French government, explaining that whilst it is very kind of them to be concerned with my safety on the French ski slopes, the British ski hosts are no danger to me at all.

And then I will list what I consider to be the greatest dangers to people on the ski slopes, such as:

1. They should make sure no ski lesson classes have more than 8 pupils, because it becomes very dangerous when ski-ing in large classes.

2. All ski instructors, whatever nationality they are, should have to pass a proficiency test in the language of their pupils. I have had some French instructors with very poor English, and I know they teach Russians etc. when they only have a very rudimentary knowledge of their language. They should make a ski phrase book in several languages so that everyone can understand what their ski instructor says. This is one reason why many British people prefer to go to a British ski school - because the instructor will be English, and speak perfect English.

3. They should make sure the pistes are graded correctly. It is very dangerous to have difficult pistes, like that Santons one in Val d'Isere, graded as a blue. Lots of people fall over on it and they could be seriously hurt. It is no wonder that British people want ski hosts to take them around the French ski resorts when pistes are graded as badly as that.

I am sure I can think of a few more really dangerous things that the French government could sort out in French ski resorts.

Who do you reckon I should send my letter to?

Ally, en France on parle francais:) While foreign languages are desirable, the main working language, ironically, is French.
As for grading - this is the reason why people should be taking lessons and not using ski hosts to build their confidence and then falling apart while conditions are less than ideal. Grading is relative and takes into account steepness, width and exposure. Conditions play no role in it. Everyone would love pistes remain freshly groomed, not bullet-proof, not bumped up and empty. I would also love powder off piste not turning into crud:) But this is not going to happen. And it doesn't affect grading, skiers are expected to adapt.

andyhull wrote:

verbier_ski_bum wrote:

andyhull wrote:I think ESF will be seeing a big drop in referrals from British TOs. The independent ski schools should do very well out of this.

The EFS is much cheaper to book, referrals to independent ski schools will lead to price increase. I am not sure public will like it too much, the whole attraction of ski hosting is that it's "free" i.e. packed into the price of the tour with additional service provided by one of the workers. Otherwise I can see what the fuss is about. If it wasn't free no-one would care if guides are wearing ESF or chalet uniforms.

Ski hosting is an opportunity to get to know your hosts too. I've had some very memorable days skiing on hosting days.
I'm looking forward to using the service in Mayrhofen in a couple of weeks, it's somewhere I haven't been before so it's a real bonus to get shown around the area.
It's a very popular service with the group I organise, a lot of people were disappointed in January that Skiworld had suspended their hosting in 3 Valleys.
Certainly something we need to take into account when choosing resorts for next season.

I just don't understand this:) Why do you need to get to know your host? And why is piste map not enough? Where is your sense of adventure?:)

Snapzzz wrote:

Ranchero_1979 wrote:I sit on the other side. Is incredibly difficult for instructors to gain enough experience to progress through system and work in France. As such I completely understand why they would want to ensure maximum number of people take lessons. That might mean them having to slightly alter their business model to meet British customer needs but makes perfect sense to me.

Also we have to remember the French set a high standard for you to be an instructor, does not require you to be of a given Nationality to meet standard. Just ensures the dedication to be a professional is there. Reality is someone who did 5 week basic instructor course in Canada cannot be compared to a French qualified instructor who has spent several years learning the trade. To ensure these dedicated people have a viable career is in interest of everyone.

TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THIS ^^^^

The point is that people that enjoy hosting are not looking for an alternative to lessons, they often do not need nor want lessons. They just want a social environment to ski with other capable people.

This is just about money.....plain and simple.
Whilst in Morzine last week ESF had posters up an flyers around offering a tour of the pistes, no instruction, from 1pm-5pm. 34 euros.
That is what it is all about, they want the exclusive on a blossoming trend. Simple as.

When people need hosting they in fact do need lessons. When you can ski it never a problem to explore by yourself or find the company to ski with because you can follow anyone anywhere and won't be a liability. TO's can organise group skiing and let people subscribe and meet, just remove the host out of it or hire instructor from a ski school for a day. Any real change will be a positive one. You spend a day with a host telling him you don't like ice, and he'll be keeping you are out of it. If you spend the day with instructor and tell him the same be sure you won't miss a single icy patch that can be found anywhere that day. The truth is people get this "hosting" thing as a massive freebie, some pampering at no visible cost. So it's about money indeed. And it's largely a British thing, I doubt tourists from other places care a thing about hosting. And yes, it's a market share. If certain activity is performed by a trained and certified professionals and removed from them by allowing non-trained non-certified individuals to perform it too, this is the market share gone, and profession brings less rewards and may end up unsustainable or affordable only to rich kids who live on their parents money anyway. And it's not easy to gain these qualifications either, so why shouldn't this be rewarded?

In any case, this is the law of the host country. Take it or leave it. Or write a letter to Parliament. They will laugh at it too.

andyhull wrote:I think ESF will be seeing a big drop in referrals from British TOs. The independent ski schools should do very well out of this.

The EFS is much cheaper to book, referrals to independent ski schools will lead to price increase. I am not sure public will like it too much, the whole attraction of ski hosting is that it's "free" i.e. packed into the price of the tour with additional service provided by one of the workers. Otherwise I can see what the fuss is about. If it wasn't free no-one would care if guides are wearing ESF or chalet uniforms.

I am with Ranchero. I think ski instructors should be able to have a viable career. Plus court decision only upheld existing French law which said that for providing on-mountain services for remuneration you need to be adequately qualified - i.e. qualifications should be recognised by the local professional body. Le Ski can appeal, but it will be the same as asking a host country to change the legislation to accommodate the visitors and help foreign TO's to make profit.

The idea of the letter is just silly. There is no British monopoly to French ski slopes. Writing that "Ski hosting is no danger to us, British tourists" is cute, but it's not the tourists that determine what contributes to safety and what doesn't.

stevie999 wrote:Can I jump in on Courchevel? The restaurant/bar on the verdons run, called the chalet des pierres. Beer was 14 euros a pint before tax. We'd ordered so had to drink it. We had a look a look at the a la carte menu just to be nosey......3 luxury sausages and potatoes aereated into pillows with a jus (known to us as bangers and mash with gravy).....131 euros each. I kid you not. Who on Earth buys this stuff? Ah, here come the Russians.......

Of course, but this is not the only place you can eat and there will always be other places, cheaper too. They will have their own customers. I just don't see anything criminal in some places catering for rich. No-one objects 5 star hotels even that it can be more expensive to stay a night there than to stay for a week elsewhere and have cash left to spare. It's the same with restaurants.

Tony_H wrote:There's a theme developing here, and I'm not talking about Italy being cheap in comparison to other places.

These pesky Russians and their pots of money are running it for everyone. It's happening around the med resorts as well. They roll in to town and flash the cash and hey presto the prices rocket for everything.

I think there should be a 2 tiered pricing structure in ski resorts: uk and eu citizens pay standard prices, Russians pay 10 times as much. Like has been said, they don't blink an eyelid, whereas we will simply all get pushed out eventually.

Tony, but that's the standard prices. And while there are more Russians now then even 6 years ago prices haven't increased that dramatically. I actually find Verbier less expensive than Geneva. And prices have actually gone up here, but not in the mountains.

Messages posted by : verbier_ski_bum