J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by verbier_ski_bum

There are definitely more skiers than snowboarders now than it was 6-7 years ago. Some boarders in our group switched back to skiing. I think it's due to advances in ski technology. Main advantage of snowboards was in powder, but modern skis made powder skiing easier. Main disadvantage of snowboards are not even flats, but bumpy narrow traverses that are often inevitable if you want to get to an interesting terrain and powder stashes. And this disadvantage remains. We skied Col des Mines over the busy period and traffic on a traverse meant that boarders (and they are all of a very good standard) just couldn't make it and had to drop in to Vallon d'Arby side. For skiers the traverse is a lesser problem, even when it's so busy so that you can't get to a good speed to clear all dips and rises, you can always side step. As for sitting in the middle of the piste skiers do it too, they just stand, not sit, but I guess many of them would if they could - it's just easier on a board:)

andymol2 wrote:Is the standard of teaching that much higher in France than Austria, Andorra, the USA or Canada?

I had a few lessons with ESF in Chamonix and I found them excellent. I certainly improved a lot and had real off-piste experience. My instructor was local and also had a guide's badge and took me to Vallee Blanche which was one of the best days on a mountain I've ever had. Many people learned in France and many with ESF so not sure how it compares to other countries but the standard must be good.

andymol2 wrote:It's protectionism.
Adults should be able to ski with who they like. As long as that person doesn't falsely claim to have teaching or guiding qualifications then it should be none of the authorities business.
If taking guests off piste then, as a matter of safety, an international guiding qualification and evidence of local experience should be mandatory wherever you are, be that France, Austria or Scotland.

The French whine when the UK declines to fund their agricultural policy yet use the law to favor their own nationals.

Adults should be able to ski with whoever they like but if this person skis with them for remuneration he has to be qualified. If he skis in his free time for free then the point is valid. The law in this case doesn't favour any nationals, but it favours a qualified professional against an unqualified person. If these qualifications were available only to French then we could talk about 'protectionism and nationalism'.

felthorpe wrote:When going to a new resort I think the hosting service provides a valuable opportunity to orientate yourself at the start of the holiday. I was grateful for the hosting in Tignes in January, although after day 1 I and several others chose to form our own group. We did have someone with us still (one of our own) who knew their way around and this made life so much easier. Otherwise we may have stuck with the hosting for longer.

I personally found the ski hosting a bit fast and furious because they knew their way around so well they went everywhere at break neck speed. However some in our group enjoyed this and skied with them all week. But there were places they took us to that I would have struggled to find on my own, they showed us what they considered was the best skiing in the resort and which routes to take, which we may have missed otherwise.

I think whether you take up ski hosting or not depends on what you want out of your holiday but the option to go with someone who knows their way around should still be left available to us.

I do not agree that this French ruling is all about safety. I think the points made on here about skiing in a group being safer than on your own are valid. if I had been on my own in Tignes when I came a cropper I would still be hanging by one leg from the netting. This is enough to convince me that skiing alone is not for me.

I fully accept that I need more lessons but I also want to be able to get around the resort efficiently when not in ski school. I also want to learn about the facilities that are available and be shown the best places to eat etc. For this purpose the ski host is perfectly qualified because they have local knowledge. No ski host, no matter how pursuasive is going to teach/tell me what to do or make me ski faster than I feel comfortable with or go down a piste I don't want to. As an adult I have to take that responsibility myself.

Elf and Safety have gone mad in many parts of our daily lives and one of the most common grumbles on here is the looming possibility that helmets may be made compulsory in the future. I wish the French would let us act like grown ups when it comes to ski hosting and be responsible for our own safety, not try to ban it like we were children who can't be allowed to make these decisions for ourselves. Where will it end?

It's their country, not a British colony. They are entitled to have their own laws which some tourists might find silly, it doesn't matter as they are still laws and anyone not obeying can be prosecuted for it. I cannot see anything wrong with this picture. Acting like grown ups forst of all means accepting the law for what it is - the law. Abd British is not the only nation skiing in France, I don't think it will be wise if each single nationality is allowed to be responsible for their own safety they way they see fit to their preferences. The host country is the one that decides.

Basically the argument is pointless. The Law states that to provide mountain hosting a person should be adequately qaulified. I always thought that for tourists it's either accept the laws of their host country or go elsewhere. Writing petitions to foreign govetnments asking them to revise the law is just pathetic. Just as leaving stupid comments on ESF facebook page - but this is actually quite entertaining to read, how sad people might get after all and how seriously they might be taking themselves. Why people just cannot get on with it? You will get your guiding in one way or the other, be it by a qualified person, or by a host who will give you directions and organise meeting points etc. I am sure that for whom skiing is mainly a social event will also find the way to socialise more. This is not such a big deal than you guys are trying to make out of it.

Snapzzz wrote:

verbier_ski_bum wrote:

When people need hosting they in fact do need lessons. When you can ski it never a problem to explore by yourself or find the company to ski with because you can follow anyone anywhere and won't be a liability.

Sorry but that is the biggest load of crap i have ever heard.

I have used crystals ski hosting and it wasn't because i still needed lessons. I used them because my family are at a different standard to me, they were out at ski school and i was looking for company.
Joining a hosted group is easy, a lot easier than just trying to tag on to random strangers in a lift queue and a lot less boring than skiing alone. Although i am happy to be by myself.

So do ESF teach social skills too then? Maybe thats the lessons i need....A lesson in skiing alone or just following someone. Until that time i guess i will just have to 'manage'.

verbier_ski_bum wrote:
I just don't understand this:) Why do you need to get to know your host? And why is piste map not enough? Where is your sense of adventure?:)

Because for some Skiing is a social event, perhaps you should accept that others demand different experiences from life.
Also i think that your encouragement to explore alone could in fact be slightly more risky than an organised group.....qualified or not.

Why exploring alone will be more risky if you can ski and certain that you don't need lessons? The whole idea of lessons is to make skiers independent and free in their choice of terrain because they can handle it well. If conditions or grading of a certain slope worry you you do need lessons. It's a very strange comment because everyone can benefit from a lesson. Even ski instructors of high level go on courses to maintain proficiency.

Anyway, ski hosts can organise all this "social" bit without actually actively guiding. Groups according to levels and approximate routes for each group. You just won't have a leader on the slopes with you unless you "elect" him from your own ranks. And you meet other skiers in this way too. You won't be breaking any laws, and you won't be shifting responsibility onto someone working for 60 pounds a week. I just can't see where the issue is.

I also don't think that in North America mountain hosts work for TO's. They are likely resort employees. And ski schools are associated with resorts too, so situations cannot be directly comparable.

billip1 wrote:

verbier_ski_bum wrote:...the point is that ski hosting is illegal in France. That it is available and legal in the USA or Canada is beyond the point here completely. You can go skiing there and enjoy the hosting - this is how it normally works, and not crying that the law is silly and you want a different one. I don't get what the fuss is about. ...

I think the fuss is about the fact that under EU legislation such restrictions are almost certainly unlawful.

It is not a restriction on employment but a demand that the person seeking this employment had local qualifications. Qualify and work. you don't need any additional permits and paperwork, just qualifications. I can't see how EU laws apply to it.

End to ski hosting in France Started by User in France, 299 Replies
I also don't think that in North America mountain hosts work for TO's. They are likely resort employees. And ski schools are associated with resorts too, so situations cannot be directly comparable.

Messages posted by : verbier_ski_bum