J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by OldAndy

In my view the whole issue is about envy and money.
ESF instructors aren't generally salaried but paid for the hours they work. So in low season those lower on the ranking don't get any work and see those unlicensed Brits swanning around and drinking in the bars etc.

The bit about taking money from ski school is I think a cultural thing. There is this assumption that Brits without hosts would pay for ski school - doubt if many would in my opinion, different market, different mindset, diferent culture to the French.

When I was with Club Med a couple of years ago this was brought home to me as we didn't join the lessons that were included in the price, nor did any Brits except the kids as far as i could see - even though some instructors spoke good English and English speaking groups were on offer. I have seen this before in french run hotels where so many of the French have lessons every year whereas the Bits tend to stop once the basics have been mastered, or have a few lessons, maybe a couple of hours of private.

I really don't think that many of the ESF instructors "get it" - ski hosting doesn't mean loss of money. Going with a host for a days skiing isn't about saving money on ski school - it is totally different.

Until the ESF lot "get it" they will continue to hassle and object around the idea of British tour operators offering free ski hosting.

andyhull wrote:Perhaps they've been targeted because they recommend Next Generation, Top Ski and The Development Centre ski schools and not ESF?

Could well be Andy

brooksy wrote:

OldAndy wrote:Ally...
Your list is wrong as I doubt I will sleep on the train.
:cry:

So it is only 72 sleeps
WoopWoop
:thumbup:

Andy the list only applies to mortals -)

You, me or Icy?

Saw this thread changing course in an interesting direction earlier but didn't have time to reply.
The Morgan test case is interesting, if anyone sees any more about this I would like to read the details more fully.

Antipathy between UK tour staff guiding/hosting or whatever and locals, particularly ESF is by no means a new phenoma.

In 1985 our guides in 3V had several run ins with ESF, there was the same "you shouldn't be doing it - you aren't qualified" stance, even though at the least they all had BASI qualifications.

But next year in Les Arcs there was no problem ESF really happy that we offered guiding, in fact an ESF instructor took the new guides out for a bit of a show around early season (FOC). Think I remember correctly that there was more of a problem in Val D'Isere than Tignes as well.

So, in my view and experience it has been very much a resort specific problem. Last year with MW in L2A they seemed to have their guiding/ski hosting and relationship with ESF going well. This may be the key point - the tour operators relationship with the local ESF. ESF I am pretty sure is still a cooperative sort of business where each school is independent under an umbrella organisation. It is down to the school director to set the tone with that specific school.

With the forced opening up of the ski school market 20 or so years ago ESF got a shock, and in my view, did up their game considerably as a result and the employment of UK staff in France became legal, both as instructors and in other capacities.

But I have heard that some ESF branches really haven't adapted to new conditions with competition.

I am pretty sure that there have been attempts in the past to get ski hosts legally banned across france but these have fallen down - could be about the legality of employment. This time as safety is the issue it may be different. Mind you I would really like to see some statistics about injuries with hosts and, of course, compare this to injuries with instructors and qualified guides - now those would be interesting!!

ESF are in danger of really shooting themselves in the foot if they got this through. What tour operator would recommend ESF if they were banned from ski hosting? I'm sure they would be forging links with the non ESF schools in pretty much every resort.

I wonder if it is ESF central (the governing body) or one or more of the ESF 3V ski schools that is co-sponsoring this attempt?

Do hope they loose!!

As a separate point it is my understanding that in Austria the number of days that hosting is "allowed" is limited - certainly is with MW. Anyone know what the position is in Switzerland and Italy?

AllyG wrote:
I suppose it will depend on the weather, and what Andy and Catp say, but I fancy having lunch on the first Sunday in les Clochetons, in Val d'Isere, on the blue Santons piste.

Just plan to follow you Ally.....

Mind you I have started a little exercise in getting through all you restaurant stops on the Sunday before others arrive from the airport. Presently playing with a couple of options on routes to squeek the time down.
Should be possible, may need the bus back from Val Claret to Les Boisses tho'.
You happy to ski Face?
Bring your head torch with you for the last bit please.

Ally...
Your list is wrong as I doubt I will sleep on the train.
:cry:

So it is only 72 sleeps
WoopWoop
:thumbup:

AllyG wrote:Andy,
It's quite simple - we do the pub/restaurant crawl, but we don't actually drink any alcohol ourselves :lol:

Perhaps it would have been clearer if I'd expressed it like this:

The first Sunday there will be a reconaissance expedition on skis to gather information concerning the quality and price of food and beverages offered by the various mountain restaurants of Tignes and Val d'Isere. There will also be an attempt to gauge the 'ambience' of said restaurants and ascertain the magnificance, or otherwise, of their mountain views. This information will be required by the main body of the troops when they reach the ski slopes on Monday :lol:

OK - sounds good.
:D
If CatP is able to join us she can do the sampling - should be able to carry her home between us if necessary.

The thing then is what is the sampling schedule?

IMHO - Vin Chaude, glass house red and white and draught beer in each restaurant?
Does that cover it Ally?

AllyG wrote:

OldAndy wrote:
Got a headcam Ally - I'll catch your Sunday falls.
:thumbup:

Well, isn't it a good thing you decided to come with us Andy :roll:

But remember the first Sunday is the pub/restaurant crawl around Tignes and Val d'Isere via the ski slopes :lol:

Ermmmmmmmm........
Could be a slight tactical error here Ally as, if my memory serves me right both you and I are T total.
:roll:
A list of the best places for a decent cuppa and the best Espresso may not quite fit the requirements or expectations of the other?
Your thoughts????