J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by LOTA

A few years ago, in La Plagne, a rather boorish fellow chalet guest regaled us with his stories about how he'd never had a lesson, he could ski anything and everything, lessons are for weeds etc etc. Chalet nightmare, to be honest!

Against my better judgement, he came out for a morning with my brother (who works in the ski industry) and I. Visbility was marginal, it has to be said, but after two runs, our new friend decided that he was feeling a bit tired and slipped away. According to his wife, that evening, he was having lessons the next day!

Gaz C wrote:

Tony_H wrote:

Maybe people join a hosting group so they can ski with better skiers and learn from them? I don't know but I can see how that might work. But if you need to improve your own skiing, practising as much as possible is the way to do it and asking for advice from better skiers, so a hosting group then must become a kind of free lesson to those people no?

I have done the skiing with better skiers 'mullarkey' and it did not make me a better skier. It made me a faster skier and it made me think I was a better skier. Anyone joining a hosting group purely in the hope of improving their technique is wasting their time. Asking for advice from better skiers is all well and good but the way to really make rapid progress is lessons, lessons and more lessons....

Couldn't agree more; hosting and lessons are entirely different - and I think you're spot on with your assessment of skiing with better skiers. That tends to make you ski a bit faster and in places where you might not otherwise have ventured. I've been skiing for 40 years plus now, but I still have a lesson or two on each trip if I can - still learning, still improving, I hope. :D

Eric, private lessons are good (but not cheap); group lessons aren't quite as good (but cheaper).

I've no intention of petitioning anybody nor writing anything on an ESF facebook page. As previous correspondents have posted, this is all about loot - the French have spied a way of cashing in on what was a free service to many visitors. It's old-fashioned protectionism, pure and simple. The safety argument is spurious - and a smokescreen.

Oh well, never mind, off to Austria in 13 days! :)

verbier_ski_bum wrote:I am not missing a point. Because the point is that ski hosting is illegal in France. That it is available and legal in the USA or Canada is beyond the point here completely. You can go skiing there and enjoy the hosting - this is how it normally works, and not crying that the law is silly and you want a different one. I don't get what the fuss is about. There are still some resorts that offer this service, if this is such a deal breaker you can always go there. I know for many people it's irrelevant so on balance nothing will change much for French ski resorts. But letters to French ministers will be quite amusing to read.

Yes, you have missed the point. You said in a previous posting that it was "largely a British thing." I was pointing out that was the not the case with the US and Canada leading the way with mountain hosts. Legality, or otherwise, was not mentioned.

And, by the way, I've seen large groups of Dutch and Scandanavian skiers being led by their tour operators representatives in many European resorts.

I also wonder how Ski Club of Great Britain leaders are affected in French resorts.

verbier_ski_bum wrote:

Snapzzz wrote:

Ranchero_1979 wrote:I sit on the other side. Is incredibly difficult for instructors to gain enough experience to progress through system and work in France. As such I completely understand why they would want to ensure maximum number of people take lessons. That might mean them having to slightly alter their business model to meet British customer needs but makes perfect sense to me.

Also we have to remember the French set a high standard for you to be an instructor, does not require you to be of a given Nationality to meet standard. Just ensures the dedication to be a professional is there. Reality is someone who did 5 week basic instructor course in Canada cannot be compared to a French qualified instructor who has spent several years learning the trade. To ensure these dedicated people have a viable career is in interest of everyone.

TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THIS ^^^^

The point is that people that enjoy hosting are not looking for an alternative to lessons, they often do not need nor want lessons. They just want a social environment to ski with other capable people.

This is just about money.....plain and simple.
Whilst in Morzine last week ESF had posters up an flyers around offering a tour of the pistes, no instruction, from 1pm-5pm. 34 euros.
That is what it is all about, they want the exclusive on a blossoming trend. Simple as.

When people need hosting they in fact do need lessons. When you can ski it never a problem to explore by yourself or find the company to ski with because you can follow anyone anywhere and won't be a liability. TO's can organise group skiing and let people subscribe and meet, just remove the host out of it or hire instructor from a ski school for a day. Any real change will be a positive one. You spend a day with a host telling him you don't like ice, and he'll be keeping you are out of it. If you spend the day with instructor and tell him the same be sure you won't miss a single icy patch that can be found anywhere that day. The truth is people get this "hosting" thing as a massive freebie, some pampering at no visible cost. So it's about money indeed. And it's largely a British thing, I doubt tourists from other places care a thing about hosting. And yes, it's a market share. If certain activity is performed by a trained and certified professionals and removed from them by allowing non-trained non-certified individuals to perform it too, this is the market share gone, and profession brings less rewards and may end up unsustainable or affordable only to rich kids who live on their parents money anyway. And it's not easy to gain these qualifications either, so why shouldn't this be rewarded?

In any case, this is the law of the host country. Take it or leave it. Or write a letter to Parliament. They will laugh at it too.

Wrong, mate. It's not just a British thing. In the United States and Canada, mountain hosts are provided, free of charge, by resorts to show visitors around the particular mountain. And very popular they are too. No instruction, just run familiarisation and the best places to stop for a wee and a cup of tea.

All sounds rather similar to what tour ops have tried to do in Europe for many seasons.

All this ban does is convince me not to return to France for skiing any time soon; I can go somewhere else where I feel my custom is more valued.

I'd imagine it's the Goatstall bar that fuels his obsession!

My report from March 13 last year:


So here we go...

Started out early last Monday and all was going swimmingly - the EasyJet to Innsbruck was off on time but the weather became progressively murkier as we approached Innsbruck. After two aborted attempts to land, the captain called it a day and headed for Munich. Bang went skiing on Monday afternoon but better to arrive late, but alive, I suppose!

Decided not to wait for EasyJet's promised busses - they couldn't say when they'd arrive or how long the whole business would take, so hopped on the Deutsche Bahn and headed for Otztal by train. German and Austrian trains are ok - but they ain't Swiss in terms of connections etc and after several lengthy waits, was finally on the bus up the Otztal to Soelden. Unfortunately, it coincided with school kicking-out time, so it was packed with teenagers -not very comfortable really with big bag and skis!

Still, the bus eventually meandered its way to Zwieselstein - a dot on the map 3km along the Obergurgl road from Soelden (not walkable safely, take a bus or taxi). Found the Gasthof Judith - clean, modern, functional (and Sky Sports 1 on the telly!) and then found a smashing restaurant - the Bruckenwirt - for dinner. Cheap beer, extensive menu, good service - a home from home.

It was snowing when I arrived and again on Tuesday morning. Went to Giggijoch lift using the very efficient ski buses - every 20 minutes all day long. And joined the massive queue. This is quite usual, apparently, although once up the hill, I hardly queued all week such is the efficiency of the lift system. The Giggijoch gives access to a massive bowl of generally easy cruising, with steeper, more testing terrain above and in Hochsolden. Anyway, I spent an enjoyable day cruising the reds, blues and blacks above the temperature inversion that was still giving snow in town (definitely not a village!)

Next day I used the mightily impressive Gaislachkogl lift - a serious investment that, in two stages, takes you very quickly above 3,000 metres. My only complaint is that Run 1 is marked as a red and at the top is steep, narrow, tricky and very much a black. It's reminiscent of the Schilthorn at Murren in pitch, width and size of moguls. I suppose you can't put in a multi-million Euro lift to service a black as few people would use it!

Anyway, the designated black from the top of the Wasserkar is a bit easier and along with the giant slalom run on the glacier, turned out to be my favourite run.

The glacier areas were excellent and really enjoyable on a sunny Wednesday afternoon - long and wide runs with the aforementioned GS face that finishes in the Gletscher Stadion a real highlight!

The skiing is much more extensive than the piste map suggests - you get a real sense of travel - and the 15km run down the Rettenbach Tal is great fun. The Big 3 Rallye would take some doing in a day - I visited them all, but over the course of the week! The lift system is efficient, bottlenecks are moved quickly, piste maintenance lower down was good, loads of varied and entertaining skiing. Mountain restaurants are plentiful and good value. But don't bother with the Heide Alm. Heard good things about this joint that can only be reached down a short, sharp itinerary and exited on a drag of a t-bar. However, the food was disappointing and the service off-hand and very slow. In contrast, Bibi's ski hit had tons of atmosphere and friendly staff and the Giggijoch self-service is massive but with good value bait.

So a big plus for Soelden's skiing. Sadly, the town doesn't match the skiing. A busy, busy road dominates the strip - there's talk of a EC-funded tunnel bypass - and it's noisy and a bit grubby as a result. It's not easy to walk, taxis are expensive, and the many, many bars are dominated by the thump, thump, thump of crave, garage, house and infernal euro-pop music. If you want somewhere quieter, opt for the suburbs but make sure it's near a bus stop or walking distance.

(Tony H: I know you were interested in the Total Ski Chalet Hermann. I skied with some of its guests on one day. The hot water was a touch unreliable and it's not as ski-in, ski-out as may have been claimed. Apparently, the way back in is something of an itinerary, through people's gardens and involves climbing over fences!)

Although a big, bustling place, it was definitely not overpriced. Beer at €3.90 for half a litre, soft drinks reasonable, food very good value - in the valley and up the hill.

So the verdict on Soelden? High altitude skiing on a grand scale that matches the best of France, I think, and better by far than the likes of la Plagne, les 2 Alpes or Alpe D'Huez. The only drawback was the busy, unattractive town.

Obergurgl is better known among the British market, of course, and is only 20 minutes away by a regular bus. Spent two enjoyable days there, but it's small, apparently very quiet at night, and a little more expensive. However, the biggest drawback to its limited ski area is the terrible piste marking. On a really bad vis day, like Monday of this week, it's downright dangerous, with poles down the middle of runs, but nothing to mark drops on either side. There are no trees to take refuge in when the cloud is low over the slopes.

Pictures: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.101506936....610069872&type=1&l=102934cced

Oh, and more people wearing crash hats than not!