End to ski hosting in France

I saw this post that Dave Mac put up in the 'too sad' thread, and thought I'd ask about it:


Admin wrote:
It has become an issue in France and has been stopped by a lot of operators there; as a result of the ESF suing LeSki recently!


The situation seems to have moved on:
http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683

Does this mean that ski hosting is illegal in France now, as from today?

I think we will have to wait and see for any final "legality" on this - Le Ski are appealing to the Court in Chambery and it may then go further.

The PlanetSki report suggests that Crystal, for one, have stopped hosting already - have you asked Bonjour yet thinking about your next trip Ally??

I am saddened by this as I have really enjoyed joining hosting groups when on holiday as the only skier or on my own.

I would love to know what the ESF actually mean by "fully qualified"? With EU rules this can no longer be solely French trained. But I wonder if they would fight the inclusion of BASSI instructors in the fully trained category?

I hope that some of the big UK tour operators move their business to alternative ski schools as a result of this. My personal view is that the whole ESF position is misplaced protectionism and a lack of understanding of what the British skier is looking for with respect to hosting.

The french have been fighting for this for many years,is it enough to stop you skiing in France ?. I think the French understand that the answer will be No 8)

I am very upset about it :cry:

It all seems so SILLY :roll:

I LIKE the ESF. Most of my ESF instructors have been really good and they've tried their best to improve my ski-ing. BUT I still want to be given the OPTION of being taken around by a British ski host if I want to.

I am convinced they are providing totally different services. I mean, when we were in Tignes for our group holiday in January, the Bonjour ski hosts took us around the resort, but only ON the pistes, and they were only showing us which way to go, and where the restaurants were etc.

So, when we wanted to learn how to ski OFF piste, we decided to have a lesson with the ESF. And it was a really good lesson and the instructor was great - he even picked us up from the chalet and spent 4 hours with us instead of 3 hours, and the total charge was only 160 euros for 5 people (although we ended up with only 4 of us).

And yes, Andy, I am worried about my next ski holiday with Bonjour, which is less than 2 weeks away now! I was looking forward to ski-ing with their ski hosts again, and now it looks as though it won't happen :(

This all started in the late 80s when the ESF took Ski Cocktail to court in an effort to prevent them setting up the first private ski school in France. They lost and then turned their attention to the UK tour operators ski guides, with arrests being made every now and then.

The problems include too many Brits thinking they can ski when they should still be taking lessons, and using the guiding services as a free ski school light. There have also been guides over the years who were simply not competent. The protectionist nature of the ESF is another problem.

There should be a simple solution - licence the guides. They should have to undergo a week's mountain safety and leadership course at the start of the season. The course content could surely be agreed between the TOs and a 'reasonable and forward thinking ESF'. Fail and they're out. Also there should be strictly enforced limits to the size of guiding groups and the minimum skiing ability.

It's a shame, and the ESF will do themselves no good in the eyes of many British skiers. The shame is they've picked on a small special TO, Le Ski, and not one of the big boys who might have the financial muscle to take the ESF all the way to Strasbourg....

People need to remember the difference between lessons and a host.
I think its true that a lot of skiers think they're better than they are and join hosting groups with the intention of being able to cope but find it too difficult. Others probably think to a freebie lesson so attempt to take advantage.
Crystal were hosting for guests from champoluc recently but we decided to pass and do our own thing, but I think sme companies offer a good and more bespoke service, so bonjour being le, and ski miquel being another.

ESF are a ski school, its quite clear what the difference is.

Personally I don't use ESF as I don't take lessons, and I have never to date used a hosting service, and i usually prefer not to ski in much of France so this doesn't affect me. However, I also don't think it would or should affect Nrits taking ski holidays to France. It just creates problems for some of the holiday companies and could take away that element of enjoyment some people currently take from their ski holidays.

It just all seems a shame and fairly pointless.

I sit on the other side. Is incredibly difficult for instructors to gain enough experience to progress through system and work in France. As such I completely understand why they would want to ensure maximum number of people take lessons. That might mean them having to slightly alter their business model to meet British customer needs but makes perfect sense to me.

Also we have to remember the French set a high standard for you to be an instructor, does not require you to be of a given Nationality to meet standard. Just ensures the dedication to be a professional is there. Reality is someone who did 5 week basic instructor course in Canada cannot be compared to a French qualified instructor who has spent several years learning the trade. To ensure these dedicated people have a viable career is in interest of everyone.

Give France a miss