J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by ise

AllyG wrote:Ise,
How do ski companies get away without paying the minimum wage in France? I thought it was an EU law, and therefore should apply equally in Britain and France.

with the greatest of ease, the numbers of hours worked isn't what's stated and they include accommodation or lift passes or tips to make the money up. Mostly by just be being off the radar. The effects on the local economy are dreadful obviously, it's a scam that relies on a steady stream of staff prepared to be exploited and customers to accept poor service, unlike other countries the UK is able to provide both.

AllyG wrote: agree one can't live hand to mouth, in a ski resort or anywhere else, for long, but it is a fun thing to do at certain stages in one life - either when you're young or semi-retired.

So now this isn't a life choice but an extended holiday. Personally I'd find the idea of cleaning toilets for a couple of months to ski a couple of half days each week then go back to the UK pretty unsatisfactory.

dustyfog wrote:
Here is an unrelated question, me being what I self-rate as a lower-intermediate skiier,(instructors say I am better, well you have seen, and I am realistic) and knowing that camera angles are seriously deceptive, they make things look a lot easier than they are, but to find the sort of un-tracked powder stash you folks seem to uncover relentless, you must alpinists and seriously expert powder hounds, no? I mean, one first needs the confidence on the mountain, climbing to places or hiking without ever having gone there before, that by itself is cause for trepidation of all sorts, and then one has to have the conviction, you are able to ski down pretty much anything...

Personally, yes I'm an alpinist, I'm out in the mountains all year round skiing, climbing and trekking. There's some technical skills required over and above normal skiing but if you're with a guide it's pretty minimal and it's simple enough to learn enough to be safe there. If you're talking responsibility for yourself some more skills are required of course. Once you're out there a lot of ski tourers aren't such great skiers often, a few basic turns are good enough.

Pablo Escobar wrote:I am the antiAllyG, I think a good balance is important.

I would love to be able to ski every day but on the other hand I like being able to see something I like and buy it.. or at least have the option to think 'I can save for that without missing meals'.

I think that's about right. You can certainly give up luxuries like new large screen TV's or flash cars, my car is now 4 years old and the TV about 10, and I don't intend to replace either soon :lol: But, I'm just about to buy another camera and I don't intend to give up luxuries like that or going out for dinner.

I'd also be be really wary of believing people who reckon they can live for very little, particularly they're telling you the real story. They might own their properties, not have debt and actually have enough financial security not to worry about making provision for old age and be able to live without burning any of their capital.

Being a chalet girl in Verbier and marrying a rich client after 10 years would work well :D that's a good plan

AllyG wrote:An instructor I was talking to when we were in Bulgaria said that in the summer a lot of them go off to the Black Sea resorts and teach windsurfing etc.

I think you've missed the point of your own anecdote. So the instructor was someone who was qualified to tech skiing in the winter and qualified to teach wind surfing in the summer, they'll have earned more in both locations than someone doing unskilled work. Even then, you're talking about 4 or 5 months actual work at the very best.

AllyG wrote:I would have thought there'd be summer work as well in France etc. at the seaside resorts.

I live close to the sea here in Wales, and in the summer there's a great shortage of seasonal workers to work as cleaners, behind the bar, waitresses etc. because we have an enormous influx of tourists during the summer staying in hotels, campsites, self-catering holiday cottages, and B&B. And of course all these workers get paid at least the minimum wage, if not a great deal more.

They're pretty fortunate to be getting minimum wage, most UK staff in ski resorts don't when their actual working hours are taking into account. The ability of ski companies to behave like that in France particularly explains why so many companies are based there and so few in Switzerland where they're supposed to follow the actual law of the country.

AllyG wrote:I guess it all depends on how much money one needs to live on. I can live on very little - but then I am tea-total, and I don't like eating out, or buying clothes etc. etc. (pretty boring person generally). But I don't know if Amanda, or anyone else, :lol: could live like me.

I know someone who gave up an extremely well paid IT job to work in a ski resort for practically nothing, except his keep, and he's very happy doing it.

until he retires I presume :lol: there's no end of people living hand to mouth like that, you can't do it for long though.

amanda n wrote:i'm afraid that if it meant i had to go work as a cleaner or any unskilled hard working job to live the life i want then i am not proud i would do it.

Seasonal work is just that, seasonal. In most ski stations that means 3 or 4 months at best. Mostly those jobs involve long, antisocial hours for so little money that they're actually below the minimum wage of the county you're in. Someone working in the average seasonaire job will ski fewer days in the season than their counterpart down the valley doing a normal job. Most seasonaires will leave at the end of the first and last season they do in debt. Some people might choose to do that for a few months but nowadays a lot of people now realise it's easier to try and earn enough in the rest of the year and just ski for a couple of months.

If you want to actually make a life here it takes considerably harder work than just being prepared to do unskilled labour for below minimum wage. I'd also avoid taking advice from people who imagine how great it all must based on their holiday no matter how well intentioned it is or those that did that one season and then went to something else. I think there's a handful of people who post here who can give some realistic advice. Determination and a preparedness to do anything won't get you anywhere at all on their own, what you actually need is a realistic plan and to have considered the downsides. Any dream doesn't do, what it needs is a plan :lol:

amanda n wrote:ISE thats not fair, i would happily clean toilets if it meant i could wakeup every morning and see the mountains, and just sit at the top of them once a week feeling glad to be alive.

I wouldn't, there's no need for it. Living in the mountains isn't a break from the real world, it is the real world and I'm not going to live like a student :lol:

you might try somewhere bluedome or http://www.outdoorstaff.co.uk/ or http://www.adventuresportsholidays.com/jobs/index.php or http://www.traveljobs365.com/index.php but these are more for qualified people. Otherwise as Bandit suggested there's unskilledtoiletcleaners.co.uk or whatever it's called.

There's no A and B standard that I'm aware of. There's three groups measuring them, they are :

The first is the Common European Norm (CEN) and this is the European ski helmet standard. CEN 1077 was issued in 1996. CEN 1077 is the most common as CEN will be a regulatory requirement around Europe.
The American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM), all helmets must show that they have reached standard F2040.
Snell Memorial Foundation, Snell RS-98 and this is arguably the most stringent standard.