How do you define skill level?

Dave Mac wrote:Not entirely true Pablo. BASI describe tests such as "Eight continuous linked carved turns on a minimum 25 degree slope", along with other types of test.

Dave Mac, it is still down to an examiner to decide where 8 separate turns become linked, how long of a 'pause' between turns can still constitute a linked turn. They might try to define it but it will always be subjective.

Out of interest, what standard is that for?

I regard advanced or expert skiers as those who have been doing it for years and who are capable of skiing anything comfortably.
Intermediates encompasses a much broader range.
Ellis Brigham suggest intermediates are stronger than novices (who can tackle greens and blues) and tackle reds, easy blacks and trying out softer snow whilst still working on technique. I'd say that probably covers most people from the UK who take regular ski holidays, and probably a high proportion who post on here regularly.

Snow & Rock have a table with numbers:
Recreational
1 - first time skier or you have skied before but cannot yet snow plough
2 - skied at least once before, ski at a slow pace, stop using a snow plough and trying changes in direction
3 - can ski linked snowplough turns, easy blues remain a challenge
4 - linked snowplough turns and skiing parallel sometimes, starting to explore but mainly groomed green and blue slopes
Advanced
5 - exploring more in parallel stance, may use snowplough in trouble. Like to travel faster and enjoy skiing a series of turns. Prefer not to ski reds or moguls just yet
6 - much more confident skier, starting to feel the skis carve at times, comfortable on reds and trying the odd black and some easy moguls
7 - strong parallel turns in various conditions with the ability to make short and long radius turns, enjoying speed and carving turns. Enjoying trying blacks and moguls but want to progress more, and learn about off piste skiing.
Expert
8 - confident skier and have skied many different resorts, more aware of equipment and what it can do for you. Looking to ski either high speed carving turns, develop all mountain freeride technique, or explore doing tricks in the park.
9 - have the ability to ski on and off piste and probably looking to own your own all mountain skis to take you anywhere because you are confident and comfortable doing so.
10 - top level skier who can deal with any terrain and conditions, possibly an instructor or professional, or back country powder hound.


Interesting because I reckon in my first week skiing when I had lessons, I went from 1 to 4, just.
Using the above numbering system, I would have put myself at 7-8 although I have just bought skis rated as 9, but I would certainly not rate myself as expert!!!!

For me, you can only do this at the coarsest of levels. I go with something like :-

Beginner - First day onwards, falling lots, Green runs only and having lots of trouble with lifts!

Lower Intermediate - anyone off the Greens and starting to get around the mountain a bit. Maybe still gets spat out by the occasional chair-lift but getting more confident and really starting to enjoy it.

Intermediate - happy on Blues and easy Reds. Will try tougher runs including the occasional Black. Loves mileage. Lifts no problem!

Strong Intermediate - skis Reds for fun and Blacks for the challenge. Occasional sorties off the marked runs.

Advanced - for me an Advanced skier is someone starting to ski "technically"; i.e. really using the ski. Knows when and what they should be trying to do but perhaps not quite there in all conditions.

Expert - skis anything in any conditions, on or off-piste, with a high level of technical ability.


But there's no right answer. There's just so much to learn and so many different disciplines... and many people are "Experts" at say piste skiing but hopeless when it gets fluffy. And I've followed some very scruffy (style-wise) dudes on twin-tips who turned out to be stunning in the park - what use is a perfect carve technique when you're doing an inverted grab 10 feet up??? 8)


Intermediate probably has the greatest range but oddly it's also perhaps the most consistent term - where an Intermediate is simply someone who's out of the nursery slopes and away up the mountain.

Maybe.

Scruffy (style-wise) is cool 8)
Its all about individuality )

I reckon most of us can relate to the Snow and Rock table - for me

Week 1 - 1 to 3

Week 2 - 4 to 5

Week 3 - 5 to 6

Week 4 - 6

Just to add to the confusion;

In February, in Val Thorens, I had ESF group lessons morning and afternoon with two different teachers but at the same level - Upper Intermediate.

The morning lessons were really great with a very well balanced group of people and we got on to carving reds, beginning off piste, very small jumps, blacks etc. and at the end of it the instructor said I should move on to the advanced ESF group next holiday.

The afternoon group was very badly balanced, with lower intermediate children mixed in with the adult upper intermediate group and ski-ing was very difficult. However, we still did off piste, over small jumps, blacks etc. and at the end of it the instructor said I should stay in the Upper Intermediate group, but that I was a strong intermediate.

So, even instructors from the same ski school have a different grading standard.

As far as lessons go, it doesn't really matter anyway, because in all the lessons I've been in the instructors always grade you on the first day and then move you during the week if you progress faster/slower than everyone else so that they can try and keep everyone in the group at roughly the same level.

On Tony's list I would grade myself as a 6/7 and I would call myself a strong intermediate.

I think you'd have to be pretty confident in your own abilities to call yourself advanced, and I should think that very few British holiday skiers get to expert standard.

Ally

People at 6/7 level shouldn't be falling over should they? And I dont mean that to be rude, but you previously mentioned you fall over quote a bit.

Tony,
The falling over was just a joke. I thought you knew that?

Actually, I fall over a lot less than anyone else in my group. I don't think I fell over at all during my last holiday in Val Thorens, in either of my two group lessons. And yes, I did fall over at Tignes, but as I said, so did a member of one of those national ski teams ski-ing down the same patch of ice as us.

Some of the other people in my group in VT did some really dramatic crashes, though. One of them I remember was because the instructor skied down a fairly steep bit ahead of us doing lots of small turns and then made us ski down one by one, seeing how many turns we could make. I started off pretty well, but I was a bit over-ambitious and I nearly spun out of control, got myself back under control and finished okay. But another person totally lost it and catapulted forwards through the air to pretty much end up flat on their face at the instructor's feet.

And the last day, we were carving pretty fast down a red, and I was right behind the instructor, really enjoying it, and one poor person went 'smash' at top speed and nearly knocked themselves out.

A good lesson, I feel, is one that pushes you to your limits, without frightening you or endangering your safety, so you get the exhiliration, but not the fear. And naturally, ski-ing at that relative level of difficulty, sometimes people do fall over.

Ally