J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by msej449

Today - another avalanche in Switzerland kills three walkers and badly injures another:

http://www.lenouvelliste.ch/fr/valais/martigny/3-personnes-decedees-dans-l-avalanche-au-grand-st-bernard-494-1418891

The avalanche danger level was set to '2' but the commmentary on this and other accidents is that whatever the level is generally, specific conditions can be very dangerous, even on well-trod and commonly-used tracks and routes.

All the victims were equiped with suitable detectors etc., but weather conditions delayed recovery.

And another thing ....

If you have a mixed group, with some people not being off-piste adrenalin-junkies, then consider a 'spa' resort such as Ovronnaz. There is less ski area but a lot of options for spa activities, and prices aren't in the Lukerbad 5-Star class: these are places for families and locals who like the spa experience. And this applies to La Tzoumaa and Verbier as well - down in the valley are the Bains de Saillon:

http://www.bainsdesaillon.ch/en/

one of Switzerland's biggest thermal resorts. Again, addressing the middle-of-the-road and local market rather than the 'luxury-infinity-pool' segment.

I have to declare an interest, as I have an apartment in Switzerland, so I'm obviously a fan. What I'd say is that you at least price it out as an option. There are other threads on this but to minimise a Swiss trip I'd suggest the following. Apartments in our village (La Tzoumaz) rent for about CHF 1500/week for a 4-person (6 at a squeeze) 68m² apartment near to the gondola. Also note that Verbier, for example, has just cut all its prices by 15% across the board (www.verbier.ch)

0. Satellites: Look at some of the satellite/smaller villages like La Tzoumaz (Verbier), Leysin (Diablerets) or Champéry (PdS)
1. Apartments: If you've not got a chalet-size group, price-up one or more apartments, then either eat out or self-cater.
2. Tourist Office: Choose a location and email the local Tourist office and get them to work up some prices for you.
3. Book equipment ahead (usually gets you 20% or so off).
4. If you are hiring a car from GVA, try the '.ch' Swiss sites e.g. www.sixt.ch as these sometimes have vehicles or options not on the .com landing pages.
5. If you self-cater, buy in a valley supermarket en route, rather than in the resort.
6. If there are just 2-3 of you, a Swiss Transfer Ticket (available from www.stc.co.uk) may be cheaper than car hire. For 4+ a hire car is usually cheaper.
7. Buy your skipass on a day-by-day basis unles you can be sure the weather is going to be good throughout your stay.

To get an idea of what a satellite like La Tzoumaz offers, take a look at the recent article

The Guardian 6.12.14
http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2014/dec/06/satellite-ski-resorts-verbier-four-valleys-switzerland
"Satellite ski resorts – how to get Verbier snow for half the dough"

Mail Online 26.3.13
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2296527/How-Verbier-cheap--stay-little-sister-La-Tzoumaz.html
"Meet Verbier's chic little sister: Luxury for less on a chalet break in La Tzoumaz"

It's common practice in mainland Europe for clients to contact a local immobilier (agency) direct rather than take a package. To give you an idea of what's on offer, here's an agency in La Tzoumaz which is typical (go to the RENT section): http://www.carron-immobilier.ch/en/

HeliSkiing: Looking at the Ecole de Ski Suisse site http://www.tzoumazbooking.com/?page_id=1618&lang=en?&lang=en
this prices a heli-ski trip for four including guide as CHF 400 per person for a day, so that's around £280. Not sure how this compares.

To forestall criticism, I absolutely concede that the lift prices for Verbier are going to be pricey compared to a small resort in Italy or France. And that many of the above will apply as much in France as Switzerland. As I said, it's just a suggestion for you to consider CH.

Ummmm. To state the obvious, GVA isn't really the best point of entry to Italy - To get anywhere there, you'll be passing resort after resort in French, German and Italian-speaking parts of Switzerland. If you're choosing Italy because of cost, I'd say that any savings are likely to be eaten up, and then some, in ground transit costs.

If I had to get to Italy from GVA I'd consider going by train, as you can get on a train in the airport that will take you to Italy. The CH part of the trip would be around £85 if you get a Swiss Transfer return. Take a look at the www.sbb.ch website and see if you can do this, and what the price would be for the Italian leg.

I've taken the train on a day-trip from Martigny to Locarno and back in the summer and it was great fun and fantastic scenery, so you could make the train a part of the holiday experience.

I've always found the people at the Swiss TOurist Centre in London (www.stc.co.uk) really knowledgeable and helpful: they're usually Swiss with a lot of local knowledge. Although don't be surprised if they try and persuade you that a Swiss holiday would be better - To be fair, they do usually have some genuine offers available.

I think that the landscape is quite complex: some Swiss are very critical of the big resorts on two counts - 1. Authorities have allowed far too much building of apartments and chalets that are then never let out to tourists and 2. Too little investment in hotel refurbishment (basically, owners resting on their laurels and not re-investing profits). Locals also tend to complain that people can't afford local housing, as almost all the property is owned as second homes, prices are inflated, nd most stnad empty most of the year.

It seems that Swiss hoteliers have been resting on their laurels for a few years now. The Director of Verbier Tourism has said that they're main competitor is Austria and that frankly, a key discriminator is the more friendly and customer-focused welcome that people receive there. Basically, Swiss hoteliers have wanted to charge 5-Star prices for 3/4-Star accomodation, and have been unwilling to invest, or to adapt to a changing customer base.

So yes, most of those in tourism see a cheaper CHF as the soltuion to all their problems, but the reality is that while it is a factor, it is only one of many.

My reading of the Swiss news articles on the year-on-year drop in numbers is that to date, this is due to a late start to the season and poor snow until just last week, not the CHF:€ un-pinning. It won't really be until the end of the season that the comparison can be made, and then you'd still have to normalise for last year being an exceptionally early season start. It'll be interesting to see whether there's really a big difference, once the dust has settled. A lot of the noise from the UK seems to be from journalists and posters who would never have considered going to CH in the first place, and who always considered it too exepensive for their budget.

Judging by the accents in Verbier's Olympic restaurant last week, there are as many, if not more Brits than usual. The average occupancy rate in Verbier is around 12.5% i.e. 87.5% of the accomodatino is actually empty at any one time: testament to the high proportion of private chalets and apartments that aren't rented out when their owners are elsewhere.

To my mind, this is a coded message to customers that Tour Operators transfer arrangements are really pretty limited and highly dependent on a benign congruence of events i.e. everything going perfectly to schedule. If your plane is late, tough. If the weather disrupts incoming coaches, tough. If the weather causes massive queues en route, tough. If the transfer extends to 8 hours, tough, they'll be no water or snacks on board. And so on.

The Snowmaggedon at Christmas/New Year made a lot of people realise that the Tour Operators provide little or no training or real-time support for their poor underpaid Reps. And that anyone expecting more really needs to organise their own transfer.

However, it's a welcome approach from this company to set expectations amoung potential customers that all that is on offer is the organisation of the transfer and only what an isolated Rep on the ground can offer in the way of coordination on the day. Nothing more. All the rest is up to the customer. It's a shame that so many other Tour Operators pretend that they're bringing a massive logistical machine with years of inhertied eperience to bear, when that's not really what's on offer.

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, the £:CHF headline rate is down 15% so all other things being equal, CH is 15% more expensive than it was. If you're payrolling a family trip then multiply this up and it non-trivial.

On the other hand, skiing has always been expensive. And our most expensive trip per head was self-catering in Vail, not our New Year half-board in Verbier. As above, there's a lot of noise about Domaines having to reduce the skipass rates and I'm seeing all sort of 'Specials' appearing. And whilst the skipass is non-negotiable, a lot of the rest of the costs can be moderated or controlled. And anyway, for a lot of people, £150 on a £1000 ski trip is acceptable (especially if it means no lift queues and open pistes).

Some other Forums are seeing loads of thread about this being an apocalypse, but I think that it's being conflated with what is a bad weather year - Verbier is down 15% YoY to date, but that's because of the poor snow and late season opening, not the CHF. And a lot of the negative comment seems to be Schadenfreude from people who never have, or would ski in Switzerland in the first place.

Once the dust has settled, it'll be interesting to see whether it really makes a difference to the visitor numbers, after being adjusted for the below-average snow conditions.