J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by msej449

Get The SIze

First, look at the sidewall of the tyre on your car and you'll see something like

225/45 R 18 V

this is the

tyre width in mm (225)
aspect ratio i.e. height vs width (45%)
R=Radial
wheel diameter in inches (18") and
speed rating (v=240Kph or less)

the key measurements are the wheel diameter (18" above) and tyre width (225mm above).

Check The Manual

Then look in your owner's manual or contact your garage to find out whether the wheels on your car are certified to take chains or not. For higher-performance models, you are likely to find that they are not.

In your manual or talking to your garage, they may use the term 'J' to refer to the wheel width in inches. This is the width where the tyre is fitted to the wheel.

For example, 7.5Jx18 wheel is a wheel which takes a tyre that has an inner diameter of 18" and a 'bead width' of 7.5". The bead is the bit of the tyre that fits onto the wheel and is usually slightly less then the tread width. There's a bit of leeway as to the acceptable bead width for a particular wheel width. So for example, on a 7.5J wheel (7.5") you can probably fit tyres whose bead width varies by about 1" (25mm).

The complication is that the bead width isn't usually specified on the tyre or on web pages. It will usually be a bit less than the tread width. Your local garage or tyre outlet will check this on their systems explicitly, but it's more difficult for you.

They're Certified!

If you're lucky, then the wheels and tyres fitted to your car can carry chains OK - it will say so in the Owner's Manual. So you can buy any chains and not worry.

No they're not & Why It Matters

But what if it doesn't? Take the 7.5Jx18 (7½" wide x 18" diameter) wheels above. In the manual, it may say that chains are only certified for 16" diameter wheels, not the 17" or 18" options for your car. This is because, as wider and wider wheels are fitted to your car, they consume space asymmetrically - they can't protrude outside the bodywork, so the only space they can consume is that between the wheel and the wheel arch. Compared to the chain-certified 7J wheels, my 8Jx18 wheels use up an extra 1" of around 1.5" of free space behind the wheel/tyre. What's left is perilously close to the suspension, brakes, steering if I then need another .5" with chains.

So you now have a problem. The problem is that if you attach chains to the larger wheels, the part of the chain that goes inside, behind the tyre, between the wheel and the wheel arch, may foul the suspension and brake pipes. If you are front-wheel drive, then you also have the problem that the chain may foul the steering as well.

Suppliers Patter

Beware suppliers who say "It should be OK.", or worse "You'll have to try them out first." This tells you that they don't understand or won't acknowledge this issue. Press them to guarantee that your car, plus passengers, plus luggage, plus roof-rack, doing a hairpin turn in the snow will be OK .... and you'll often find that they aren't prepared to underwrite what they're selling you. And even then, if they're wrong, the problem will be yours as you hear a terrible scrunching sound from the front suspension/steering as you drive up the mountain in the dark.

Options: Non-intrusive Chains / Winter Tyres+Wheels

There are some - expensive - chain solutions that overcome this problem. Some have no inner components at all, and some have very thin elements that only add 2-3mm which should be OK.

Which leads me to mention Winter Tyres. But that's for another posting ...

Remember, this isn't a matter of whether you can get past a bolshie French Gendarme at the snow chains sign. It's a matter of getting the right accessory that in the snow will (a) work properly and (b) not destroy your car's drivetrain and (c) not invalidate a car insurance claim if you have an accident while they're fitted.

Hope it helps. As I said, first thing, check your tyre spec and look in the owner's manual. You may have no problem.

I don't recommend The AA (see my post on 'Insurance Woes and Tips') more because of their claims handling than their specific cover. My experience also made me realise - cheap insurance is cheap because the cover is limited. For example, Passport Loss: most policies are £250, some £500. When I lost my passport in February it cost about £750 all-in to get my replacement and get home. And this was with BA rescheduling my return flight for free. The AA small print discounts the cover on replacing ski equipment loss/damage at 20%/year - if your equipment is more than 4 years old, it isn't covered. etc. etc.

I've also been in groups where some people didn't carry their wallets! They assumed that they'd never get separated from their group/partner. Didn't think what would happen if they did, and then how they could be identified if they were unconscious.
After being self-righteous, I realised that I wasn't carrying anything that (a) identified my blood group and medicine allergies or (b) showed where I was staying and who to contact in an emergency.
After talking about this to my sons, it also struck them that on their Lads Trip, no one had details of who to contact back home, insurance etc. - so if any of them were unconscious and/or hospitalised, they wouldn't know who to call.
All this is fairly easy to get together before you go, and I now print out a small form for everyone to complete ahead of the trip. Then give them a small form for their wallets with the accommodation details, contact, and blank for name, blood group, allergies etc.

The Crystal Agent at Gatwick went down the checkin queue telling us that we all had to pay a "fuel supplement" to get on the flight. When we got to the checkin desk, the airline said this simply wasn't the case. Crystal had charged their agent with getting some extra payments in whatever way she could. When I went to other people in the queue to tell them, the rep threatened to get the airport security to arrest me. Welcome to Crystal corporate customer care. As you can imagine, I wouldn't recommend them. No doubt, Crystal would say they're not responsible for the specific actions of their agent. But it reflects the way they do business.

What would be really good would be useful information printed out. The rep's name and contact details; what to do if you're hurt on-piste; procedure for seeing a doctor; recommended restaurants and bars (which ones good for families, bars for blokes, etc.); local tips, especially on avoiding queues (e.g. 'At start of day, take bus to 'X' lift to avoid scrum at 'Y' / 'Go home via such-and-such after 4pm'); and so on ... You'll also want to convey the departure process, so again, do this on paper rather than tell everyone face-to-face or try and grab people before the final day.
Not everyone will attend a briefing or register everything you say at one. Much easier for you to give them printed info on arrival and then say "I'll be in the <> bar 5-6pm if anyone has more questions.

Think ahead: What are you going to do when things go wrong? We were with our three young children when our Bergamo flight was rescheduled to Milan. The reps were useless. No food. More importantly, no water - The reps didn't seem to think it was their problem. They took the "What a surprise? who'd have thought?" attitude. Muppets.
At least once in a season there will be a crisis: so plan ahead. If there's a big delay then how are you going to get people water and food? etc.

Also, the Olympic cafe at Attelas had no card-readers and wasn't accepting plastic payments at all - cash only. Not even debit cards. Even locals seemed surprised. Be worth knowing if this is for the season and whether it's a general trend.

Verbier is open again this Weekend, this time both Lac de Vaux and the run from Attelas down to Ruinettes. Photos from today: Lac de Vaux is beginning to freeze over:



and the run down from Attelas was in good condition:



The snow line is about 1800m south-facing and about 150m lower north-facing. It's snowed already right down to the valley floor but so far not stayed. Temperature at La Tzoumaz (1500m) was 3C nighttime, 7C daytime yesterday. The piste conditions were good with little sign of wear - so the the base for the so-far-unopened higher areas in the 4 valleys looks good.

Overall a very nice day's skiing, not that many people - sunny and bright but not too warm. All it needs now is for the temperatures to drop a bit and for some snow to fall and stay down at the 1500m level.