J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by ise

Dshenberger wrote:

ise wrote:

pavelski wrote:
The newer 2009 skis seem to have discovered a way to make a "plate or rail system" that permits low vibration ,,yet has less weight! The Head SL World Cup and Fischers WC SL are two such examples!

No they haven't, plates have always had that function right back to Derby flex plate systems. Some manufacturers like K2 even played with piezoelectric systems inside the skis, Salomon had "suspension" binding systems at around the same time which would be the early 1990's. Most skis are designed to damp vibration, that becomes a design challenge with a stiffer ski so the function migrates to the binding and plate, obviously (or it should be) any interface provides the opportunity to provide dampening which is why it's been utilized for 20-odd years.

If you had read the whole statement you would have noticed that he said "yet has less weight." ;)

I did read it, and I'm happy to clarify now that part of the statement is also inaccurate :D

Dshenberger wrote:Also, thanks to all for the interesting perspectives. I understand what you are saying about them not being "real" race skis,

What makes a real race ski is FIS Homologation, that means to compete in a full FIS race a ski has to conform to certain standard, these differ for each event. In a nutshell that's it, some of the above stuff isn't really very accurate.

Dshenberger wrote:but that does not alter the fact that the manufacturers label them (and sell) as such.

No they can't, that would be illegal in most countries under trade descriptions legislation, they can suggest they're Race style or similar. Anything that went as far as "the same ski used on the world cup circuit" would be misleading.

Dshenberger wrote:And, I would venture a guess that many non-sponsored racers do, indeed, use them. :) For example, we had a GS race at the resort where I work. And guess what? I saw a many guys with GS9's, 10's and 11's.

No they can't do that, you can compete in a amateur club race or similar but as soon as it's a full FIS race with points you have to use real skis. GS9-10-11 are not FIS homologated.

All of which drifts from the first question, they're great skis and at those prices well worth a go. For me I prefer something more slalom, or technical, orientated but that's just my choice.

Trencher wrote: Ise, I can understand that if you ski in the back country, you need poles to get around and you may well find uses for them while descending.

I should clarify that I'm talking about the regular, on piste skiing that most people do.

And I should clarify I'm talking about what we learn when we're training to be ski instructors )

Unless you're on the flattest of slopes you need poles for all the reasons I've given, no one manages without and those that try are simply unable to handle even moderately difficult slopes at any speed.

Trencher wrote:
I have never read a single article that describes how the pole plant is directly related to the use of the skis.

1. a trigger point in turn initiation or a timing aid.

2. balance support, in turns with high edge set or pronounced check it's an aid to balance at the point of maximum deceleration

3. aid to leg rotation, a momentary anchor to aid leg rotation into the new direction without disrupting balance or posture.

4. momentary torque in initiating quick, tight turns.

Trencher wrote:Very occasionally you see a GS racer use a pole plant.

Only if you're watching GS very occasionally.

bandit wrote:
I know ise skis it a lot, and thinks everyone does it, but that's not accurate, as my OH declined to even try!

I probably can't win there, OK it's ultra-hardcore, super steep on dangerously exposed slopes :D

tonymc wrote:Hi,

Jumping onto this thread, we will be renting a car from Geneva Airport to drive to Les Meuires on 1st March.

Could anyone advise of prices (and/or website) to rent/purchase chains rather than renting from the car rental company?

Many thanks.

I'm not sure that's going to work out, you don't know the size of the tires/wheels which you need to buy chains. One option is to buy some from a supermarket on the way, people suggest that they do this although I'm surprised that they're apparently always able to find stock of the size they want so easily.

pavelski wrote:
The newer 2009 skis seem to have discovered a way to make a "plate or rail system" that permits low vibration ,,yet has less weight! The Head SL World Cup and Fischers WC SL are two such examples!

No they haven't, plates have always had that function right back to Derby flex plate systems. Some manufacturers like K2 even played with piezoelectric systems inside the skis, Salomon had "suspension" binding systems at around the same time which would be the early 1990's. Most skis are designed to damp vibration, that becomes a design challenge with a stiffer ski so the function migrates to the binding and plate, obviously (or it should be) any interface provides the opportunity to provide dampening which is why it's been utilized for 20-odd years.

Trencher wrote:The metron skis are not heavy. It's those original Neox bindings that were like attaching lead blocks to the skis. The later neox are substantially lighter.

Obviously weight is an absolute but what we think of as heavy is pretty subjective. However, I'd suggest that a new B5 that weights in at around 12kg is a heavy ski, the newer Neox are certainly lighter but only by around 450-500g so it's not made much of a difference.

Best tour so far : Val d’Rechy - La Brinta - Orxival - St Jean

I love that photo' as we're all laughing, David was offering chocolate which we all initially declined as we were eating our own until he pointed out it was chocolate liqueur :D It was also the first time the four of us, all based in Zinal, had teamed up for a tour and I was able to take them into two nearby valleys they'd not been to before, find untracked powder in a holiday week and a line that finished at a bus stop outside a bar, it was just a great, great day.

For a good run, Dam powder and old photo's , me skiing on the first and Mike on the second. It's a trade route, everyone that comes here "has" to ski it so first tracks in powder on a Feb' day is fairly special :D

pavelski wrote:
If ever you have driving a true race car on a race track you know what "competition suspension" is like! It transfers all the roads imperfections to the seat of your pants! You become part of the car and feel each sway, each tuck of the car! So it is with racing skis!

That's totally untrue, get a pair a skis under 3kg and take them out and you'll find very, very quickly that the lighter a ski is, and the lighter the binding then the more the force is transferred back to you. The weight of the binding and plate system particularly is specifically designed to absorb and compensate for the huge forces involved in running at a race speed. If the ski truly transferred even a fraction of that back to you then you'd be thrown to ground the first time you hit even the very smallest alteration on snow surface.

That principle's been used to effect in ski systems like the Metron, engineered to handle alterations in snow surface and flatter indifferent skiers at speed, Nordica and others have pretty similar systems on the market.

pavelski wrote:Nothing is free, so yes they are heavier,, but the stability and speeds I get far compensates for this small issue!

quite, there'd be no stability if they were actually transmitted every alteration in snow surface to you.