Piste Grading Inconsistency.

With regard to keeping your speed down and getting down a hairy run as best you can.

I think using as much of the slope as you possibly can could be less tiring and less scary than side stepping.

If you can traverse from one side of the slope to the other bending as low as you can and pressing the top of the boot that's facing down the hill you can slow your speed.
Pressing the top of the boot should hopefully force you slightly uphill, thus slowing you down.

It's worked for me in the past, it isn't pretty I admit, but who cares if it gets you down in one piece.

I am convinced that resorts will almost always aim to have their mix of runs broken down roughly 40% blue, 40% red and 20% black as this gives them the widest appeal to the market (admittedly, the odd one will make a virtue of being particularly easy or difficult in order to appeal to a niche market).

This can mean that at the margin, some runs are graded up or down to meet the ideal profile and can result in some rather difficult blue runs.

St Anton and Lech are great example of this: most of St Anton's blues are really quite difficult and would probably rank as reds anywhere else but this would leave the resort with very little to attract novice skiers or groups with novices. On the other hand, the blacks (in reasonable conditions) are not that difficult at all. By contrast Lech has lots of very easy blues that would probably be graded Green elsewhere but that might make the resort look a little too easy and unattractive to most skiers.

As regards picking runs for kids, this is always a tricky area. One of the great advantages of ski school is that the instructors know within about 30 seconds what the kids can manage, while still pushing them along. I find it difficult to judge what my kids can manage and will tend to err on the conservative side.

Having said that I have several experiences of bringing small kids down runs with steep pitches that were at least one grade above what you might expect on a blue/red piste. My approach is to lead them slowly down with big wide traverses and pick the turning point carefully - any kid that has been through ski school a few times will be well used to following in your tracks (with another adult taking up the rear to deal with any fallers). Few small kids are able to manage a lengthy spell of side slipping. If at all possible, I try to stick to runs that I am familiar with when leading inexperienced kids.

Hi EmmaEvs I wasn't suggesting sideslipping or ploughing for long stretches, more as an alternative to bum sliding through a steep section. I agree it's knackering for long sections

Taking your ski's off is OK in that it says you recognise your own limits (far better than recklessly straight lining out of control) but does little to boost confidence. A bit of side slipping may take you a few metres further down the hill - it's amazing the difference being nearer that little bit nearer to the perceived safety of the end of the steep section makes to an inexperienced, nervous skier.

It takes time to build enough confidence to feel able to put in a series of short radius parallel turns to control your speed on steep sections. They may have the basic technique to be able to do it but don't trust themselves. A novice will often traverse OK but turning means passing through the fall line - just what fear is telling you not to do. Side slipping (into a turn hopefully) can allow you to maintain the feeling of being in control.

It can be worse when you are skiing in a group - when one of the more able skiers stops at the top a steep bit - then the nervous then skier stops too & thinks about the steepness rather than continuing over the hump when they are in a rhythm. It's so much harder when fear sets in & you have to start again.

The grading of slopes seems to be an inexact science at best I've ski'd reds that seem easier than some blues & reds that are harder than some blacks -all in the same resort! What are the crtiteria for deciding on a piste grade? Steepness, width, iciness bumpiness, safe run off areas at the edge of the piste. I guess these are all factors and how we apportion the difficulty to each of these elements. Those who grade the pistes should look upon them as an average skier would. If you have weak legs a smooth steep piste may be easier to you than a less steep mogul field.

I would think that everyone, at some point in their ski career, has been faced with a stretch of piste that is too difficult for them (I find 'overfaced' a good term for this - like a horse at a jump http://horses.about.com/od/horsetraining/a/willinghorse.htm).

It has happened several times to me, and I've tried different methods to get past the bit I'm afraid of.

1. Long 'tacks' or traverses across the slope using a wedge turn so that I'm in the safe snow-plough type position when I'm facing down the slope.

2. Side-slipping over the steep icy patch or whatever it may be.

3. My most successful method - combining the two so I side-slip whilst I'm traversing - in other words I release the edge grip enough so that I travel a considerable distance vertically as well as horizontally.

4. When stuck in a mogul field with moguls about 3 feet high and hard as concrete I found I could sit on the moguls and swing my legs round them - until I got past the bad bit and could ski the easier moguls.

I've never yet had to resort to taking my skis off and walking - but it may happen yet!

And as for piste grading - I've never been to a resort yet with 'perfect' piste grading. Maybe what they should do is design a route around the resort and grade it 1-6 or whatever. I mean, everyone who regularly skis in that resort will know that piste x is subject to moguls in the afternoon after fresh snow, piste y has a steep section in the middle that gets icy, and that draglift C does a sharp bend 1/2 of the way up that throws off all the beginners.

What I used to do is ask people about the pistes before I went on them, preferably ski instructors. One of the nice things about getting pretty good at ski-ing is that I know I can ski down almost any black so I don't have to keep worrying that I'm going to get lost and end up on a black or get stuck on a mogully bit.

Ally

Many of Val D'Isere's and St Anton's blues would be red elsewhere; many of Cervinia's reds would be blue elsewhere. There's no real consistency across Europe - and I doubt there ever will be.

andymol2 wrote:It can be worse when you are skiing in a group - when one of the more able skiers stops at the top a steep bit - then the nervous then skier stops too & thinks about the steepness rather than continuing over the hump when they are in a rhythm. It's so much harder when fear sets in & you have to start again

I so agree with this. Thinking back to my nightmare hol at the beginning of last year, I'm sure this contributed a lot to knocking my confidence. The group I was with would stop at the top of the next decline, look around, talk, faff with gloves, look at the map etc etc. By the time we set off I'd had far too long to stare down the slope and let the anxiety build up.

Now I still stop at the top of the decline, mainly to quickly scan the section, its condition, any hazards, slower skiers etc. If I can't set off straight away due to traffic I deliberately look back up the hill for the majority of the time, until I'm able to set off. I find it's helped loads.

The pistes here are graded in accordance with Chapter 3, Section 3, Paragraph e of this document http://www.seilbahnen.org/dcs/users/6/Verkehrssicherungspflicht_06_d.pdf which governs the safety of ski runs here in Switzerland, below is a rough translation. I imagine other countries use a similar system.

e) Classification of difficulty

For proper operation, pistes must be classified according to their difficulty. Before starting a run, persons using the run must have the possibility of knowing approximately what demands will be made on them.

The classification of difficulty is based on normal conditions. The only parameter used for the classification is the terrain. The user has to take into account that bad weather and snow conditions can increase the degree of difficulty.

The classification is based on the following values:

Easy slopes = Blue
The longitudinal- and cross fall of blue runs may not exceed 25%, with the exception of short sections in open terrain.

Moderate slopes = Red
The longitudinal and cross fall of red runs may not exceed 40%, with the exception of short sections in open terrain.

Expert slopes = Black
Slopes that exceed the maximum steepness of red runs are defined as black.

Piste maps are only a pictorial representation of the terrain. If you want to accurately determine the steepness of a slope you need a topographic map. The gradient can be calculated using the formula (Rise/Run)*100 = Gradient i.e. (200/730)*100 = 27.4%.

There's nothing wrong with your daughter reverting "back to the safety of the snowplough" it's the best thing to do.

SwingBeep wrote:Easy slopes = Blue
The longitudinal- and cross fall of blue runs may not exceed 25%, with the exception of short sections in open terrain.

Thanks very much SwingBeep, for clearing that up :D

The bit I've highlighted in bold are presumably the bum sliding sections :?: :lol:

Does it say how short one of these 'short sections' has to be?

Ally