J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by ir12daveor

Ian Wickham wrote:

bandit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

ATOO wrote:I can only snowboard and have never tried skiing so I dont know how hard you fall but jeez....I've done judo and rugby but never hit the deck so hard and as fast as when i caught a wrong edge :oops:

Helmet for me thanks

I agree the decision is made on your ability level, as you have played sport you will know what it is like to be hit from the back and no one
yet has mentioned back protection ........ Roboskier here we come :mrgreen:

I think I'm seeing a certain disdain for folks using body armour Wickers? :D You've mentioned this before.

But just wait until the first back injury of the season .......... the marketing men will certainly get to work, but I do not really mind what people ware because it is individual choice,
but I would guess that the most common ski injury is thumbs and hamstrings and knees so I would wonder how much attention people put to these areas. 8)

Trying to compare apples with oranges again!!! There is one huge flaw in your argument. Back protectors have not been shown to prevent anything more then a bruise, helmets have!

I am a sports scientist, the type of trauma that would lead to a serious back injury will not be prevented by the style of back protectors that are currently available. All they can do is spread the load so that you won't get bruised as easily. There is not enough support to do anything else. Helmets on the other hand have been shown to reduce the severity of head injuries when they are worn.

NellyPS wrote:I bought my first helmet from Snow & Rock the other day, I asked the question about goggles being compatable with helmets and was told that all goggles fit all helmets. I told him I had heard otherwise (on here).

So, what's the answer?

Where the top of the goggles and the front of the helmet meet is what is being refered to here. All goggles will fit all helmets, but some goggles/helmet combinations will leave a gap at your forehead which can lead to a very cold head on cold days or some goggles may even push the helmet up a little on your head. You want a helmet/goggle combination that leaves the minimum gap but allows the helmet to sit properly on your head.

I usually bring my helmet when I am buying goggles.

Here in Switzerland you won't have problems buying in a resort. However, if you are trying to rent only a helmet you might run into a problem. I tried to rent 2 helmets only for friends this week (They already had ski gear) and was told that they only rent the helmets with skis/snowboard. This may have been specific to this resort, but it is something you should be aware of.

[comment moved to The Ski Helmet Debate]

I watched the report on this on TV last night. It seemed like caught meant caught but not necessarily buried. Remember they only have statistics for accidents where rescue was called. Somebody setting off a slide and getting out with the aid of friends and without any injury or any need to call the ski patrol would not have been included. They said that there appears to be more avalanche accidents, but less deaths lately and they accounted for the fact that more people are investing in the necessary equipment and training before leaving the marked runs.

The SLF publishes the details for every avalanche fatality in Switzerland on their website. It still makes for very sobering reading. So far this year only one, but if you read back through the previous years its not always possible to say I would not have ridden that slope!

Pablo Escobar wrote:You are missing my point totally. How many skiers go away and stick 100% to groomed runs, never venturing off the piste? At a guess, none. Therefore, the RECCO reflectors will without question be better than all the expensive equipment they don't have in a worst case scenario (slide on or very close to the piste).

No, I get your point. But don't necessarily agree. RECCO recoveries live are very rare. You are thought in any Avalanche course that to have any reasonably chance of survival you need to be located and dug out in less then 15 minutes (approx 90% survival chance). The ONLY way of reliably doing this is companion rescue with the use of a transciever.

RECCO gives people a false sense of security and very likely leads to people going into dangerous situations because they think they are suitably equipped because they have RECCO on their jacket. Therefore they are increasing their risk of an event happening, without having the necessary equipment or knowledge to increase survival chances if the sh!t does hit the fan.

Agreed, maybe its useful if someone is buried on or right next to the piste and people are quick enough to phone it in. But anywhere even just a little bit away from the piste its like playing Russian roulette.

Level 3 is level 3 but there is a range across the level. If this wasn't the case it would not be necessary to read the avalanche bulletin before heading into the back country. Regardless of what it says on the hazard map in my opinion reading the bulletin is also necessary, not just looking at the hazard map and thinking it will be ok.

Pablo Escobar wrote:I am sure at some time there was a first live recovery of a skier using a transceiver too ;)

I posted it more with reference to the skier being avalanched 'close' to the piste where most recreational skiers would think they were 'safe'. In this instance I would bet the having RECCO reflectors gives them a better chance than having nothing at all (again, like most recreational skiers). I am sure most people on j2Ski have just nipped off piste for a taste of powder without really thinking through the consequences (myself included).

If you are skiing on the piste then the chances of every requiring RECCO is pretty slim (but burials on the piste do occasionally occur), however if you go off-piste and think that RECCO is sufficient safety equipment you are seriously misguided. I have met loads of people who thought they were safe because they had RECCO in their clothing. They were pretty shocked to be told that it would be great when people are searching for your body!!! If you go off-piste there is no substitute for a transceiver (plus shovel and probe) and know how to use it.

BTW... for the record from what I can gather I can not claim to have anything close to the experience that Ise and Bandit have off piste. I'm just someone who likes to go off piste and am highly aware of my lack of experience so I do everything I can to get as much knowledge I can.

There has already been at least one death in Switzerland too. Conditions have been a bit critical with the amount of wind we've been having lately.

Last weekend I was on a lift looking at a slope of less then 30deg, Avalanche danger was 3, but there was considerable amounts of wind loading on it. This slope was directly under the lift and accessible without traversing. Under most conditions you'd think it should still be ok, but riding just beside the piste we saw the snow was really consolidated and slabby with a wind crust in places. We decided not to go on that slope.

The next run up there were two avalanches directly under the lift. One small one triggered by a boarder who managed to ride out of it. The second was further up and much bigger and was spontaneous.

Except for how slabby the snow pack was, and the seeing the wind loading from the lift we would have thought a slope of that gradient and exposure would have been safe.

Moral of the story... If in doubt DON'T go and respect wind loaded slopes no matter how shallow the gradient.


Just read that at least 5 people are dead in Italy within a few hours. Many of them mountain rescue workers. (Sorry link is only in German).

ir12daveor wrote:

LOTA wrote:Fantasic. Wonderful pictures, thank you so much.

This has really whetted my appetite. I have skied with the Private Ski School in Arosa before and, looking on their website, found they do this 3-in-one-day tour - supplying the guide, transceiver, shovel, probe, airbag rucksack etc.

Really inspired to do this - especially if the weather is as good as it looks in these pictures. Interestingly an old Good Ski Guide from 1989 has the track from behind the Hornlihutte as a marked run; whether it was patrolled or not is not clear, but it was definitely a formal route.

So thanks again - will report back on what it was like.

It is a ski tour route marked on the SAC (Swiss Alpine Club) ski tour maps.It is also marked on the freeride maps and in the book "Die schönsten freeride touren in den Schweizer Alpen" (The most beautiful freeride tours in the Swiss Alps). So in that respect it can be considered an official route, but there is no signposting or security of any sort on the route. They do not bomb or control for avalanches and there is no ski patrol back there. If something goes wrong its up to the group to take care of itself and the only rescue is a helicopter.

I haven't been back there since the summer, but if conditions allow I will be back there over the Christmas holidays.

It is well worth the effort. I love it back there.

Can Admin delete this post please? I added it by accident. Sorry.