Latest posts for the topic "Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !"

Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Sat, 8 Jan 2011 17:30:32 GMT

Interesting article in The Times today "Insurers get tough on ski claims if there is any alcohol involved" (behind a pay wall so can't give link).
Some scary stories about people not having medical expenses covered because they had had a drink, but little to show if the skiers were paralytic, tipsy or had had half of beer.
The insurers are saying - confused.com "drinking on the slopes is not covered under any circumstances", and -"If a person has been drinking, claims are rejected outright" (Esure)followed by "my advice would be, if you're going out, then don't drink at all". There is also talk of hangovers and morning afters meaning insurance invalid!
Aviva has what I think is a more balanced view of "exclude any claim as a result of being under the influence or effect of alcohol" - "this is intended to mean when a person is either drunk or has a lack of judgement or control over his or her actions".
The article finishes with "you get what you pay for", similarly with off-piste cover (which is mentioned).
Sounds to me like the cheap insurers are simply using every possible word in their policies to not pay out. They do talk of no limit set to alcohol for skiing, which they take as any alcohol means no pay out.
The better policies (and I checked mine) seem to be like Aviva quoted above, a sensible amount is fine, but don't get pissed and ski!
Interestingly boarding is not mentioned in this article :roll:

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Sat, 8 Jan 2011 18:13:16 GMT

Andy, I think that the writer will have interpreted "winter sports" as "skiing" ~ a common fault. - )
My exclusions include "the direct or indirect effect of you using alchohol"

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Sun, 9 Jan 2011 08:21:26 GMT

My exclusions also say "directly or indirectly from using alcohol or drugs" which I take to mean if you're obvioulsy wasted. My understanding would be if you're completely pissed this would appear on the medical notes and the insurerers would have reason to not pay out. If you've just had one beer who knows.

Interestingly last year I did an experiment. I found myself often falling over in the afternoon. I put this down to my own tiredness and the deteriorating condition of the piste. Mrs Smoothie thought it might be my lunchtime beer so I switched to hot chocs. I didn't fall over once for the rest of the week.

Steve

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:03:56 GMT

Morning drink ~ hot chocolate
Lunchtime ~ Johannisbeere, normally pur, sometimes gespritze.
Either 4.30pm last mountain stop or 5.00pm finish, gluewein.
I don't think this would be an issue in a courtroom.
I don't think about it now, but when I lived there for the seasons, I drank milk, lunchtime and 5.00pm. It was cheap, and I had no spare money.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:34:24 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:Morning drink ~ hot chocolate
Lunchtime ~ Johannisbeere, normally pur, sometimes gespritze.
Either 4.30pm last mountain stop or 5.00pm finish, gluewein.
I don't think this would be an issue in a courtroom.

You are making an assumption here, as no acceptable alcohol ml level is issued by your Insurer in your Policy.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:55:02 GMT

bandit wrote:You are making an assumption here, as no acceptable alcohol ml level is issued by your Insurer in your Policy.

Bandit's right. Insurance company's will use any excuse not to pay out and they could easily say that the 2 or 3 units in a Gluewein is enough to make you unsafe on skis.

I guess you have to ask yourself is that beer worth the five grand it could cost to cart you off the mountain with a broken whatever.

Best thing is to have a couple of beers then you won't care.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:51:22 GMT

It's one of these arguable cases. Historically the drink-driving limit was set at a level beleow where the stats suggested that judgment was likely to be impaired for the average person. (which is why the arguments for reducing the drink-drive levels are not based on fact).

Insurance companies, naurally like to minimise their chances of paying out. If it came to a court case an English court is likely to use the already accepted level of the drink-drive limit for travel insurers who have an exclusion on alcohol related injuries. Intoxication levels are rather difficult to prove other than by blood or breath testing - not something that an orthopedic surgeon is likely to test whilst treating you for a broken wrist. If you are brough in unconscious then I guess alcohol levels may well be checked to distinuish between the possibilities.

In the end insurance premiums are affected by claims - not many of us want to pay extra so that someone else can ski whilst bladdered.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:54:54 GMT

I can't remember the last time i skiied without having some amount of alcohol in my system...think the last time i must have been about 15 years old.....

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:05:29 GMT

Never have, and never will take out travel insurance. Call me stupid, but my bank balance is a lot healthier for it…

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:08:41 GMT

My policy mentions 'alcohol abuse' in the exclusions. That is the only place that alcohol is mentioned in the whole policy. It seems reasonable......

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:43:14 GMT

Smokey Barr wrote:Never have, and never will take out travel insurance. Call me stupid, but my bank balance is a lot healthier for it…

.... presumably because you have not have to make a claim to date!

A short hop on a helicopter to hospital could cost you thousands and this is the transport option of choice in many resorts. Some have suggested that the resorts use the helicopters way too frequently to spread the cost of having the service available when it is really needed!

Its obviously up to you but I think skiing without insurance is lunacy.

As regards alcohol on the slopes, obviously being hammered while skiing is asking for trouble, quite apart from any possible financial considerations. On the other hand a glass of beer at lunchtime is unlikely to make much difference. However, if your insurance policy states that cover does not apply where you have consumed any alcohol, then you could be in trouble. If they are not that specific, I suspect it would be very difficult for them to renege but they could make life difficult, delaying the payment of your claim and possibly forcing you to take them to court.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:49:32 GMT

most of my mate enjoy a few beers whilst on the slopes. personaly i dont prefer to have coffee . i wait til im back in resort. bit of a lightweight anyway :shock:

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:54:04 GMT

Its obviously up to you but I think skiing without insurance is lunacy.

But is it? Considering how long it takes for alcohol to leave your system (http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/853.aspx?CategoryID=87&SubCategoryID=871) and the fact I have every intention of enjoying my apres, and a few cheeky ones on the slope, my insurance would be useless...

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:01:13 GMT

Smokey Barr, you may be able to fund your own recovery costs, (occasionally up to GBP20k if heli and search are involved), from your current bank account. Would you be able to foot the bill for your Public Liability costs if another skier's legal team makes a claim? If it's all small beer to you, we should get together and I'll help you spend it 8)

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:03:15 GMT

bandit wrote:

Dave Mac wrote:Morning drink ~ hot chocolate
Lunchtime ~ Johannisbeere, normally pur, sometimes gespritze.
Either 4.30pm last mountain stop or 5.00pm finish, gluewein.
I don't think this would be an issue in a courtroom.

You are making an assumption here, as no acceptable alcohol ml level is issued by your Insurer in your Policy.

Unless you have changed, we share the same insurer. I use them because the off piste cover is about as reasonable as I can find. I cannot see any mention of a ml level.
How would there be evidence of any level? ~ assuming you weren't blotto. They would need to take a blood test, and that would require your permission.
A gluewein cannot contain 2 or three units of alchol, it is watered down.
I am not promoting drink/skiing here, my only daytime drink will be followed by the last run down, on empty slopes.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:08:58 GMT

I wouldn't deem to call you stupid. You make a choice, and effectively you are gambling. Last years helicopter cost to Kufstein Krakenhaus was just under 2000 Euros. The medical cost, accounting for the possession of an EHIC, might be under a 1500 Eu for a break. Repatriation another couple of thousand.
Costs in France would be much higher, and in many resorts the EHIC is not accepted.
Whatever you do, do ski in theUSA or Canada!

What if you caused an accident, someone else was injured or killed, and you were sued? That is a bankruptcy job, barring a rich dad!

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:12:09 GMT

If you are injured, then the treating doctor will make notes, even if no blood test is required. If another person is injured, then it's often the case that the local police will attend the treatment room (from my experience).
As you say, there seems to be no ml level mentioned, so my reading from that is that there is no acceptable level of alcohol consumption on this policy. Any insurer could use another clause to reject a claim if a skier has been drinking, but just a little, how about "needlessly putting yourself at risk".

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:24:32 GMT

Gluhwein is diluted but it also has spirits added. A good gluhwein should be strong. The ones on Manchester's Christmas markets are 9.5% the problem with drinks that are mixed, heated, etc you've no idea how many units you're intaking.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:26:47 GMT

Surely there is a question of reasonableness? It is commonplace that a high number of people drink on the mountain.
I agree if you have caused an accident, or even if there is a coming together, without known culpability, then you should expect to have to answer questions from the boys in black.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:28:17 GMT

Mekka wrote:Gluhwein is diluted but it also has spirits added. A good gluhwein should be strong. The ones on Manchester's Christmas markets are 9.5% the problem with drinks that are mixed, heated, etc you've no idea how many units you're intaking.

Yeeaaah, buuuut, you are not likely to suffer avalanche conditions in Albert Square! :wink:

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:32:57 GMT

Pffft, I only touch the mulled cider on there. St Anne's is where it's at :D

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:42:51 GMT

All valid points, but I still won't be getting insurance. I just think the chances of me needing to use it, weighted against it's cost aren't worth it...

I may live to regret it, but haven't until now.

Besides, whats the point. I intended to have a good time in the evenings, and I will be having a few jars during the day on the slope. It appears my insurance would be void if I enjoyed myself this much...

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:52:31 GMT

Do you insure your car?
What about the other skier whose life you've wrecked?
Personally I don't care if you have to cough up for your own trted, but what about your responsibility to everyone else on the slopes?

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:59:22 GMT

Hang on a minute, who's life have I wrecked??!! Maybe they skied into me!

If an accident was my fault, I would be more than happy to pay compensation. But why should I pay for something that may never happen, and may not be my fault. If someone hurtles into me, I'd expect them or their insurance to pay out.

I have insurance on my scooter because I have to. I have never had to make a claim...

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:07:26 GMT

So if it was your fault, can you afford a potential pay out of many hundreds of thousands of pounds?
Are you a keen gambler?

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:15:42 GMT

Madness not to have insurance, no intends to have an accident.[/i]

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:29:42 GMT

It costs under GBP40 a year, annual insurance, multi-trip, covers summer holidays.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:37:56 GMT

But your cover is void if you have a beer apparently...

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:45:15 GMT

Smokey Barr wrote:But your cover is void if you have a beer apparently...

I reasoned that it is not the case that your cover is void with one beer. However, having three beers and skiing is the same as drink driving. It would be a criminal offence in Austria, should an accident ensue.
I am not being judgemental, that is not my style. It seems to me that you do not understand the situation. Last year, an Austrian state minister, skiied into a woman, and she died. He was an experienced skier, but lost control. Well, for a while, he also lost his liberty, together with a serious amount of money.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:11:05 GMT

sheeesh... It's no wonder we live in a bubble wrapped, no blame no claim nanny state!!

Accidents happen. I will be enjoying my holiday with the odd pint on the slopes, and a good few in the evening. I'm sure I, and everyone else will return unharmed and all the better for it.

What did we do before these thieving insurance companies were around anyway??

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:33:17 GMT

Smokey Barr wrote:sheeesh... It's no wonder we live in a bubble wrapped, no blame no claim nanny state!!

Accidents happen. I will be enjoying my holiday with the odd pint on the slopes, and a good few in the evening. I'm sure I, and everyone else will return unharmed and all the better for it.

What did we do before these thieving insurance companies were around anyway??

Post of the thread award. Congrats for some common sense.

Apart from the T totallers, we all like a beer now and then. Mrs H enjoys several gluhweins on the slopes and skis better for them. Personally I find a lunchtime drink makes me tired and dehydrates me, so I prefer to wait until I am off the slopes to have 1 or 6.

I think the bottom line is that there is clearly a grey area when it comes to insurance. No one is right or wrong, but there is a chance that insurance will no longer pay out if "an amount" of alcohol is involved.

As for not taking out insurance when skiing, I personally think thats a little bit dangerous. I doubt whether any one of us on this thread will be involved in a ski accident this season, but if they are, insurance may well be very useful. My bank provides me with free travel insurance which includes winter sports so I dont see a direct cost for it.

On a slightly different note, isnt it about time insurance companies started saying similar things about not paying out if alcohol is involved when it comes to motor insurance? I would like to see the drink drive limit reduced to zero.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:22:49 GMT

I think Third Party insurance should be compulsory on the slopes, like it is with a car, and you should have to prove you've got it before you're allowed a lift pass.

And as for drinking - again, I think it should be the same as for driving a car.

Ally

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:19:30 GMT

Of course we are all also forgetting the European Travel Insurance Card, which unless I'm mistaken offers free emergency medical treatment in all 27 European states...

Private travel insurance will also cover personal belongings, but I'm confident I will get my kit to and from the airport in one piece. Yes there is a risk it could get stolen/damaged on the slope, but again I feel the insurance price outweighs the risk.

As for having a drink skiing limit, well, where do you stop? What if I've had a few, and have to run for a bus and in the process knock an old lady down who bangs her head and suffers irreversible brain damage? Was that just an accident, or was the drink to blame?

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:30:16 GMT

The EHIC doesn't work for private hospitals, transportation, etc. That's a big bill getting someone off the mountain and into hospital with a badly broken leg. I know so unfortunately.

It also won't cover repatriation.

One thing I'll always advise people is to carry a credit card when skiing. The mountain clinic would not let my husband leave for the hospital until his bill had been paid. Luckily a member of our group did have a credit card and paid the bill. It had never crossed our mind that this could happen. We're spoilt here with free, at point of contact, health care.

Also check which areas are covered. People often assume Switzerland and Andorra are covered.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:32:32 GMT

I enjoy a beer at lunch time, only one mind and maybe one in the afternoon and then maybe a couple of snorts from the hip flask, does that make me a bad person ????

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:37:29 GMT

I enjoy a wine with my lunch and maybe a gluhwein later in the afternoon. This is not what makes me a bad person! :lol:

As my policy only excludes alcohol abuse I'm pretty happy with it. There are a myriad of policies out there. If you want to be insured and have a beverage or 2 before 5pm I'm pretty certain it's possible.

If you don't want to pay the insurance that's your call. But you'll never convince me it's a wise move.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:41:32 GMT

Mekka wrote:I enjoy a wine with my lunch and maybe a gluhwein later in the afternoon. This is not what makes me a bad person! :lol:

As my policy only excludes alcohol abuse I'm pretty happy with it. There are a myriad of policies out there. If you want to be insured and have a beverage or 2 before 5pm I'm pretty certain it's possible.

If you don't want to pay the insurance that's your call. But you'll never convince me it's a wise move.

Agreed, I have never made a claim on my travel Insurance but I always have it .... does that make me an even badder boy.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:44:20 GMT

The EHIC doesn't work for private hospitals, transportation, etc.

I'm not sure about private hospitals (as long as I'm fixed I couldn't give a toss if I have my own room or not), but it does include transport to the hospital by ambulance. So as long as I can get off the mountain (ski stretcher) I'm sorted.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:50:24 GMT

Mountain clinics are private clinics. They use private ambulances most of the time. Helicopter trips are not covered which unfortunately could always be necessary. Not every town has a private clinic and a state run facility. Distances from the mountain can be very large.

Either you think there's a chance you may be injured and you have no idea whether you will need rushing to a hospital before a state ambulance can arrive. Or you know that you won't be injured and won't need the insurance.

The question is can you afford the GBP25,000 for repatriation if necessary? That's before any other costs.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:09:47 GMT

A member of my party was injured last year. Called an ambulance, showed his EHIC card, went to hospital, got better, went home.

Granted this wasn't on the slope, but if it had the exact same would have happened. Shipped to the local hospital, got better, go home. No fancy helicopters, no fancy private clinic hospitals, just went to hospital and got fixed.

No need for travel insurance at any time...

As for repatriation... I'll take my chances.

This is similar to the helmet debate. You either want it, or you don't. Some say it's better to be safe than sorry, others will be happy to take the risk, all be it a small one.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:32:09 GMT

The EHIC card only covers you for the local country's "NHS type provision" - in some countries that's virtually non-existant, others you pay a fee even in the State funded clinics. Our NHS is free at the point of delivery - this is not the same across Europe.
The EHIC doesn't pay for repatriation - you need flying back it's your cost.
Some hospitals won't treat you unless you have insurance.

Ambulance chasers are everywhere - you have a collision - even if it's not your fault you may end up with a huge legal bill even if you win & even then you might not get your costs back. Do you want a GBP50,000 bill to prove you were innocent?

What if you get a GBP250k compensation award against you - It's goodbye house for most people.

Travel insurance is cheap and compared to the cost of a ski holiday is peanuts.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:51:05 GMT

All valid points. But it still doesn't disguise the fact I've been going abroad on holidays for the last 20+ years and have never, ever, had to make a claim on travel insurance (I was in Thailand for the Tsunami!).

However, the amount of people I know who have tried to make a claim, only to find out for some obscure reason (drinking on the slopes?) their insurance is void is criminal, insurance companies are a massive con! And if you're lucky enough to receive a claim you get stung with a massive excess...

I'll take my chances with the EHIC, and ski carefully... without a helmet... and enjoy a beer...

Haha!! After all this I've just read my bank provides free European travel insurance… Hmm, does it include winter sports…

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:54:37 GMT

Most banks seem to cover winter sports. That's where I get mine from recently. Plus it seems to have one the reasonable approaches to alcohol.

I have had to claim twice from insurance companies. (Only once for skiing.) Both times the company has been extremely reasonable and helpful, never quibbling on anything. Either I am the luckiest person alive or I'm heading for a big fall!

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:54:44 GMT

Smokey Barr wrote:
Haha!! After all this I've just read my bank provides free European travel insurance… Hmm, does it include winter sports…

It probably does!

ours does, it covers myself and spouse and we have to pay about GBP50.00 extra to add 2 children.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Wed, 12 Jan 2011 09:44:43 GMT

It probably does!

ours does, it covers myself and spouse and we have to pay about GBP50.00 extra to add 2 children.

Apparently not. They want GBP40 to add on winter sports

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:12:17 GMT

Smokey Barr, if you ever ski in France, then you should be able to get basic medical treatment at a resort clinic if you carry around 500 euros in cash.
I base this on my experiences in Val Thorens in 2005, so add a bit for inflation. The clinic in the village was private, I was scooped up by piste patrol, one of whom skied off on my skis which prevented my OH picking them up.
They kept my skis until they extracted the money for the pickup, they refused my insurance. The ambulance was private... and I was harrassed by the driver for cash in the treatment room.

The clinic refused my Insurance/Credit Cards/EHIC....they would only accept cash. They refused to deal with my insurer. I was held untreated with a broken collarbone until I gave in and handed over my bank details to my partner to withdraw the cash from my account with my card. They took my skiboots away to prevent me from leaving before giving them the cash.

I now carry my Consular details with me, should I ever find myself in this horrible abusive situation again.
Naturally I will never return to the resort. I did detail my experiences to the resort director in writing, he was quite happy with the status quo and planned to change nothing.

My insurer did reimburse me, and they knew about the situation in the resort as other clients had similar experiences.

The medical treatment was poor, on return to the UK I was re-set and the prognosis doubled, and then doubled again. The French Dr said 4 weeks to heal, and it took 16.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:37:43 GMT

Bandit that's disgusting. I would have been absolutely seething in your position. Sounds like vultures over a piece of meat. I don't blame you for trying to hold out on them. I'd like to use several words which aren't suitable for general public consumption :evil:

Luckily I've never had to use a health service outside the UK, but I am thinking of a lady on our recent hol (not part of our party). She was hospitalised due to flu which was aggravated by asthma. She was treated so well she didn't actually want to come back to her family at the hotel, and although they did state that they would not discharge her until the bill had been paid I don't have an issue with that. It's totally different from your experience.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:39:30 GMT

Bandit - Sounds like a rather horrible situation to be in, and I hope this isn't a reflection of all French resorts.

It would be easy for me to sit here and say 'well I'd have refused to pay the cash', and would have called the police, British embassy.. blah, blah... But if you're sat there in agony, with a broken collar bone, the cash probably doesn't seem such a bad option…

It does appear though, that insurance in the first instance was pointless as they refused it. I would have stumped up the cash also, but if they'd refused my EHIC or I wasn't sent/picked up by a state hospital to be treated on my EHIC, I would have been asking my MP or whoever I needed too, some serious questions when I got home, and would have pursued compensation.

We've had this whole EU crap shoved down our throats for many years, and I expect the treatment I pay for. Despite it being advertised as, EHIC isn't free; we pay billions into the EU, hence why I won't be paying for travel insurance, I should already be covered by my EHIC.

Re:Skiing, Alcohol and Insurance !

Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:23:12 GMT

Smokey Barr, the local Police attended the Clinic to ask me if I wished to bring charges for assault against the woman who knocked me for 6. Afterwards, I learned that my experience was apparently (at the time) quite typical for the 3 Valleys. It's all private operators (kerching, kerching) ) The nearest state hospital would be Moutiers, quite a bumpy road down too! I don't believe that it's typical for smaller French resorts to act in this way.

If you don't buy insurance, it's your call, over 18 and all. A liability case could ruin you financially, unless you are already bankrupt I suppose.