Latest posts for the topic "Big or Small"

Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:58:47 GMT

My curiosity has been sparked by debates about big ski areas and super lift systems etc. Also, looking at videos of our New Year trip to Wengen, friends who had been in 3 valleys kept noting how empty the pistes were in Wengen.

I once (and never again) skied in Avoriaz, seduced by the 'size' of the ski area, efficient lift system and all that. Yes it was big, but I was staggered by the numbers of people, both getting on and off lifts but more importantly, on the pistes. And I didn't like it much.

This got me thinking (not rocket science), that an important consideration, certainly to meet my priorities when I ski, is a combination of kms of piste combined with the number of tourist beds.

So the 3 Valleys, whilst promoting itself as the worlds biggest ski area (650km?) has also managed to squeeze in 100,000 tourist beds. So that's 100,000 people in coaches and cars, getting on lifts etc. Plus 100,000 / 650 = 154 skiiers per km of piste - a JohnSkidensity of 154.

Comparing this to Monta Rosa, which I think has about 10,000 beds across Champoluc, Gressonay and Alagna - and about (reports vary) 180km of piste. JohnSkidensity = 56

So, have I gone potty, or could this help some choose where they ski!

JohnSki

Other JohnSkidensities!!
Ischgl 9,000/215 = 42
Alpbach 2,500/52 = 48

bla bla bla

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:56:57 GMT

Works for me cos I don't like loads of people around me. Anywhere. Well done Johnski. Please do some more! Admin could put the results on the site.
:mrgreen:
Allie

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:59:28 GMT

Cervinia is the best for the area/skiers ratio. I've been during February half term week, and not once did I have to queue more than 20 seconds for a lift, or wait for a piste to clear as there were too many people.

I remember Gressoney being similar-ish, although slightly busier.

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:37:39 GMT

Thanks Johnski,
That's very interesting.

Don't forget about the locals though (who don't need beds), in your calculations. In some places loads of locals turn up at the weekends.

Ally

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:53:18 GMT

You also need to factor in the uphill capacity in there somewhere, unless you love standing in a queue!!

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:36:35 GMT

I like it, good common sense data. Perhaps you should copyright this and sell it to Where to Ski and Snowboard Guide. I would look out for the JohnSkidensity score! :D

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:53:36 GMT

Hi,

I think another consideration is when you go on your trip as much as where, Les Arcs again is a large resort in it's own right, and now linked with La Plagne one of the largest ares in the world ( Paradiski, but i find many people who ski both resorts combined stay in one or other of the areas and only use the lift pass that gives a single day in the other).

Les Arcs still has not reached the point of say Val D'Isere or Tignes where they have been developed to such an extent that the pistes can be extremely crowded at times ( the last run down from the top of the Toviere chair at the end of the day springs to mind)...again picking the right week is as much of a consideration i find the picture below was of the run down into Arc 1600 during the first week of April this year....

And this was about as busy as it got all week, i usually go the very last week of the season and some years it's almost as if you have your own private ski area :thumbup: .

jon.

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:28:20 GMT

yeah i agree about Cervinia and the lack of queues there - its also a brilliant resort with loads of blue and red runs to check out. The area lift pass also covers Zermatt, which is great as well, but a little busier.

It definately is a consideration when choosing a resort - that one week of the year is so precious, that you want to maximise time on piste, and minimise time in queues!

Re:Big or Small

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:30:45 GMT

Serre Che is my favourite for big ski area and small numbers of people, but dont tell everyone

Re:Big or Small

Wed, 27 Jan 2010 01:06:26 GMT

There are far too many variables for this to really work.

Re:Big or Small

Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:55:24 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:There are far too many variables for this to really work.

Maybe we should give this project to the guy on the telly program 'numbers'. I bet he'd get it to work :-)

Ally

Re:Big or Small

Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:52:11 GMT

Having skied in three areas last week I have found from my travels that the big resorts are not my preferred place to be ...the two I have been to have been a bit impersonal and, compared to the smaller Austrian resorts,a bit unloved...the lift companies do not seem to wish to invest the cash in the lift system or the personnel . I much preferred my day in the smaller more personal and MUCH cheaper resort..the lifts weren't as good but the runs were well groomed and the pass didn't need a second mortgage...and they are all 20 minutes easy drive apart

Grand massif..Port du Sollialle...Pras de Lys

The best bet is to have a car and try stay in a central point and try them all in the same week

Re:Big or Small

Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:47:32 GMT

I think there may be a few flaws in your method.

Mainly what else does the resort offer, and is it based purely around ski-ing?. Also how easy access is it for locals? How big is your 'catchment area'?

Somewhere like Obergurgl is interesting. Most 'Local'skiers or day trippers have to come through Soelden, so there is little point going the extra half an hours drive and thus Obergurgl will look 'overcrowded' in comparison with Soelden nased on your method.

Somewhere like Cairngorm will have very few beds if you have a small Catchment area (say, Glenmore and Inverdrurie), and a massive number with a large catchment area (adding Aviemore, Coylumbridge, Nethybridge, Boat of Garten etc). However those beds are more normally used by greater numbers of Climbers, Walkers and Families rather than skiers.

Your also overlooking bottlenecks caused by placement of runs and age of equipment. You could have the worlds biggest ski area but if theres a link Poma between two very plentiful, quad detachable chairlift served areas, large q's will naturally develop.

Big or Small

Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:07:35 GMT

johnski96 wrote:I once (and never again) skied in Avoriaz, seduced by the 'size' of the ski area, efficient lift system and all that. Yes it was big, but I was staggered by the numbers of people, both getting on and off lifts but more importantly, on the pistes. And I didn't like it much.

Avoriaz is not a good example, I skiied there a few years ago and found it light years behind the other big ski areas I'd visited. Slow lifts and long queues. The Morzine Express was a joke. I'm not sure if it's improved much since but I have no plans to return.

The lift systems in Espace Killy, Paradiski, Alpe D'Huez, Sella Ronda, 3 Valleys, St Anton were all much better invested and queues not a problem.