Latest posts for the topic "A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please"

A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:54:21 GMT

Ok, heres the deal. I have enough airmiles saved up for another return trip to zone 2 for me and Mrs H, and I have been looking at alternative places to fly so that we can keep costs down etc etc.
I have looked at Innsbruck and its a non starter, and I used Munich last year. However, now that BA are charging for skis, it adds to the cost, which leaves me with 2 possible options:

Swiss via London City to either Zurich or Geneva.

I am aware of the number of resorts close to Geneva, and recall people talking of good bus links to many. I also recall a lot of people complaining about the car hire from Geneva, being expensive, a long way from the teminal, and one or two bad practises depening on which "side" you rent from.
I also seem to recall that Zurich has a fantastic railway station which links to many ski resorts.

In line with keeping the costs down, Swiss fir the bill as they still carry skis for free, according to their website anyway. I trust someone can verify this for me?

So, hiring a car would be relatively expensive out of either airport, and I was hoping someone might give me some ideas for places which are easily reached either by bus or train for either airport.

I have no fixed dates as yet, but it will probably be early Feb 2010, and may be for a week or even 3 or 4 days. If you know me, you know my requirements are for somewhere with a good ski area in terms of mileage, and also high enough up to be able to guarantee snow. I am happy to source accommodation myself, although again if anyone can recommend anything particularly good value that would be great.

So, I am looking for resort recommendations for places either cheap or quick to get to from either airport, preferably by direct bus/coach or train.

Looking at a map suggests considering Flaine, Avoriaz, Chamonix, Verbier, Villars, La Clusaz from Geneva
or considering a train to Laax, Klosters/Davos, Grindelwald area, Amdermatt, or maybe Western Austria which would open up St Anton, Ischgl or Montafon area.

Anyone got any suggestions as to where might be best and easiest, in terms of keeping costs down of course!

Cheers in advance

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:23:47 GMT

Tony, my experience is that the best value of airmiles is to use them to get a hire car. Worth exploring. The points cost may have gone up though, in the two years since I last did this.
It is easier to get a low cost flight than low cost car hire. London- Geneva on sale yesterday for GBP19.

Alternatively, if you do use airmiles to fly to Geneva, why not make it your year for Zermatt or Saas Fee? They are bound to be on your hit list, and since you would have already softened the cost, it would moderate the overall hit. Go by train to Brig.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:28:54 GMT

Zermatt or Saas-Fee are very do-able from either GVA or Zurich by train. The train ride up to Zermatt from Visp is breathtaking. A car would be a Sfr liability in either resort as both are car free and parking costs Sfr.

You can work out train connection times with your flight on http://www.sbb.ch/en/

If you are using swiss trains, check the fare price. It may be more cost effective to buy a Rail Transfer Ticket over here before you depart (or not)!

Verbier or Crans Montana are even closer. You could reach Gstaad by train from GVA, very easy skiing there though!

You might even consider the Anniviers )

If you are on Swiss, consider using the Baggage Service, so you travel lighter on the train.

Both GVA and Zurich have railway stations inside the airport, it's very civilised :D

There must be hundreds of resorts within your reach between the two!

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:37:42 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:Tony, my experience is that the best value of airmiles is to use them to get a hire car. Worth exploring. The points cost may have gone up though, in the two years since I last did this.
It is easier to get a low cost flight than low cost car hire. London- Geneva on sale yesterday for GBP19.

Alternatively, if you do use airmiles to fly to Geneva, why not make it your year for Zermatt or Saas Fee? They are bound to be on your hit list, and since you would have already softened the cost, it would moderate the overall hit. Go by train to Brig.

Dave, good point but I have to fly irrespective and would much rather get free flights and cheap travel than have to pay hundreds of GBP for flights and use airmiles to hire a car which I can go without.
For example the cost of car hire from Munich last December was far far less than it would have been had a cashed in airmiles and paid for flights, and I am talking several hundred pounds.
Thanks anyway, both are resorts I would like to go to.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:41:48 GMT

bandit wrote:Zermatt or Saas-Fee are very do-able from either GVA or Zurich by train. The train ride up to Zermatt from Visp is breathtaking. A car would be a Sfr liability in either resort as both are car free and parking costs Sfr.

You can work out train connection times with your flight on http://www.sbb.ch/en/

If you are using swiss trains, check the fare price. It may be more cost effective to buy a Rail Transfer Ticket over here before you depart (or not)!

Verbier or Crans Montana are even closer. You could reach Gstaad by train from GVA, very easy skiing there though!

You might even consider the Anniviers )

If you are on Swiss, consider using the Baggage Service, so you travel lighter on the train.

Both GVA and Zurich have railway stations inside the airport, it's very civilised :D

There must be hundreds of resorts within your reach between the two!

Thanks Bandit, I knew you'd reply. However, I was looking for some more detailed information ideally, ie someone who has done a similar trip before and picked up a bus or train from either, who could give details etc.
Ideally I would like to know rough costs for buses or trains to various resorts, and whats involved at the other end, ie is the station in town or is a bus/taxi needed, which adds to the cost, and which train stations to use for certain resorts for example.
Not asking for much am I..... :lol:

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:59:46 GMT

Tony
I regularly travel to the Anniviers from GVA without a car. The rail fare covers the final leg of the trip by Postbus. It drops me 5 mins stroll to the apt. I've also travelled over to Zermatt from Grimentz without a car. I had brekkie, got the early bus down to Sierre, caught the train to Visp and the narrow guage up to Zermatt, dumped my bags in the hotel and was up on the KM ready to ski by 11.30am.

Try the link I posted earlier, type in your arrival airport and your chosen destination, and what is offered will be included by the rail ticket. It also tells you how long the journey will take, and if you need to make changes.
For Zermatt and Saas-Fee, it's advisable to get an electric taxi to shift the luggage to your accom. Last year, mine in Zermatt cost me 12sfr.

Decide where you'd like to visit 1st, Swiss Transfer Ticket will get you to/from your arrival airport to resort and back. Costs GBP75 ish each.

Does this help? :D

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:23:57 GMT

bandit wrote:Tony
I regularly travel to the Anniviers from GVA without a car. The rail fare covers the final leg of the trip by Postbus. It drops me 5 mins stroll to the apt. I've also travelled over to Zermatt from Grimentz without a car. I had brekkie, got the early bus down to Sierre, caught the train to Visp and the narrow guage up to Zermatt, dumped my bags in the hotel and was up on the KM ready to ski by 11.30am.

Try the link I posted earlier, type in your arrival airport and your chosen destination, and what is offered will be included by the rail ticket. It also tells you how long the journey will take, and if you need to make changes.
For Zermatt and Saas-Fee, it's advisable to get an electric taxi to shift the luggage to your accom. Last year, mine in Zermatt cost me 12sfr.

Decide where you'd like to visit 1st, Swiss Transfer Ticket will get you to/from your arrival airport to resort and back. Costs GBP75 ish each.

Does this help? :D

Now we're talking.

Think you might be right about the transfer ticket, as a return from Zurich to Saas Fee is nearly CHF200 each!

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:05:57 GMT

I often fly to Geneva when going to Avoriaz.
Its the closest resort I believe and a great location to explore the PDS.
You can get a taxi for about GBP50 return per person scheduled or get your own if there are a few of you. and i believe there are regular buses.
Other options are check out snowcoach they have a Hotel at La Fayet and can arrange transfers the train station is also 200 meters from the Hotel and i imagine would have a direct link from Geneva.
If you have a hire car its a fantastic base for exploring some of the the best skiing around.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:19:05 GMT

A few years ago we flew into Zurich with Crossair (I think) and right outside Zurich airport we got on the Arlberg Express coach which took us to Lech. I think it went via St. Anton though. Someone elso did the booking so I can't remember price details, but we were trying to do Lech on a budget (not easy!) so the coach is probably quite reasonable if you can get free flights. If you fancy Zermatt however, we flew into Sion and again just outside the little airport was a coach which took us to Tasch and the railway up to Zermatt.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:45:05 GMT

It looks as though this may be developing towards Zermatt for you Tony. If so, you have:
Your free flight.

A GBP75 rail fare, easy pleasant journey. A big advantage over being on a T/O is that are not held back, waiting for a delayed flight from Belfast/Newcastle/Luton. You just get on the next train.

At Visp, if you have bags and skis, worth knowing that you put all your luggage onto a wheeled cart, and push it onto the rack&pinion Zermatt train, wheel it off in Zermatt, right up to your electric hotel buggy. Be careful of arriving late at Visp, the Zermatt train does not run late, and the taxi up to Zermatt is a GBP60ish hit.

Your hotel is yet to be defined. I will dig out the name of one I stayed in, middle price range, nice family, but mostly, a balcony view of the Matterhorn. Bandit, I am sure will give you some others.
When you make your hotel enquiry, and after you have agreed the price, you ask if the hotel will collect and deliver you to & from the station. Every hotel has at least one electric buggy.

Unless you are in love with your skis, consider hiring. Ski set GBP50~GBP80, and you get to try 2/3 different new model skis. Mainly, it just makes your travel that bit easier.

I have been fortunate to have skiied in many places. Apart from my beloved N., Zermatt and Arapahoe Basin are outstanding in the memory.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:48:08 GMT

Pretty much what most have said - except to add that rail/post bus to almost anywhere in Switzerland is easy. I have done Saas Fee, Zermatt, Andermatt, and Wengen that way. The choice of Zurich or Geneva often depended on flight arrangements, rather than which was the shortest rail time to resort. I also went from Basel to Wengen. That was (slightly) the biggest hassle - managed to hop on a private bus to Basel rail station - but had to get a taxi on return.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:04:28 GMT

Thanks guys. I assume there are websites that give details of buses to ski resorts from Geneva and Zurich?
Dave - good shout re taking the skis, but flying with Swiss means I dont have to pay for carriage which therefore reduces the cost of my trip by whatever I would pay to rent, and these days I would want to rent good skis, so would be looking at at least another GBP250 for the 2 of us, which is a total non starter. I can cope with carrying a ski bag on my shoulder for the sake of a couple of hundred quid. In fact, I'd carry yours if you paid me that!
Any ideas on the best websites to use for ski resort buses?

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:47:36 GMT

try this place for Swiss rail passes
http://www.swisspasses.com/
I agree about Zermatt it was so easy to transfer
I stayeds here
http://www.hoteljaegerhofzermatt.ch/
and I can recommend it as a nice friendly place

also from Geneva
http://www.transfer-intelligence.com/index/info/chambery/117
http://www.skiidygonzales.com/?gclid=CO-wv9a0mpYCFQaB1QodwG0eiQ

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:57:12 GMT

I have flown and got the train at Geneva to Zermatt. Typical Swiss efficiency means that it is a well signposted short walk to the airport station and everything leaves on time. I can't recall the cost of the ticket-not cheap, and we did the journey in the dark, so I can't comment on the views (but i know they are fab). The station at the other end is right in town, and it rather depends on where your accommodation is as to whether you need an (extortionate) electric taxi. We stayed in the Hotel Bristol (3 star, a bit dated but comfy, great view of Matterhorn, 5 mins up to main Gondola) which was a easy and reasonably flat 10 min walk up through the town, past all the pretty shops and restaurants. But there's loads of hotels etc much closer.I'd say most of the time you don't need wheeled transport in Zermatt-you can leave ski boots at the bottom lift stations.

I know you can get the train from Geneva airport to Le Chable which is at the valley bottom below Verbier. I think you do need to change trains, and I'm not sure about cost. The advantage of Le Chable is that you literally step over the railway tracks to the lift ticket office and ski hire shop and you can take the gondola up into Verbier, takes 10 mins, and runs until about 8pm I think. There's probably some good value accommodation there too.

I have flown to Geneva and hired cars. Car hire is easy-but don't be tempted to hire on the french side, as I understand it's difficult to navigate back in to the airport on your return. Hire on the Swiss side, and follow the signs to France once you leave the car park (dead easy), and on the way back the route back in is much easier.

On Monday I am going to visit Les Carroz (see my entry re looking for season accommdation!) which links into Flaine. My very helpful english contact there tells me it's a 50 minute drive up to the resort-it's only about 70km, and she has had guests on the piste within 90 mins of landing. Not sure about train links but it is literally 10 mins from the motorway, so I guess there must be a station in the valley bottom close by.

Hope this helps!

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:07:00 GMT

Brilliant, thanks.
One question on swiss car hire - do they all have a Vignette in them to cover the motorway costs?

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:06:20 GMT

Tony_H wrote:Brilliant, thanks.
One question on swiss car hire - do they all have a Vignette in them to cover the motorway costs?

Yes, Tony they do. If you get in one that does not have a window sticker, reject the car with the rental office.

French rentals, do not have a Vignette, unless the last hirer got stuffed to pay for one at the border crossing )

Swiss rentals, will not have Hi-vis vests as standard, as it's not law in Switzerland. This is important if you cross into France!

Swiss rentals will have winter tyres in the winter. Sometimes, they have chains in the boot, but this is not guaranteed, unless you pay for them.

French rentals might have winter tyres, unless you specify and pay you can't be certain.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:21:13 GMT

Thanks Bandit, useful info. I am thinking about exploring into Switzerland, although Zermatt might just be a little too far and too pricey. I need to do a lot of research. A good suggestion is stopping at Le Chable and skiing Verbier.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:47:18 GMT

Re Zermatt...the journey is long-about 3.5 hours minimum I think on the train, depending on whether you have to change, though I think at its longest it's about 4 hours. In that sense it is a bit of a chore to get there. You certainly would struggle to fly into Geneva, get the train and ski on day 1, or ski on your last day and get a train that gets you back in time for flight check in. As I recall, we had to get up before 6am to catch the first train of the day out of Zermatt to catch a flight that left at around noon.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:53:29 GMT

PertyB wrote:Re Zermatt...the journey is long-about 3.5 hours minimum I think on the train, depending on whether you have to change, though I think at its longest it's about 4 hours. In that sense it is a bit of a chore to get there. You certainly would struggle to fly into Geneva, get the train and ski on day 1, or ski on your last day and get a train that gets you back in time for flight check in. As I recall, we had to get up before 6am to catch the first train of the day out of Zermatt to catch a flight that left at around noon.

I thought as much, and to be honest looking at costs, I would prefer to take a package to a catered chalet in Zermatt.
I was looking for somewhere I could get to and ski first afternoon, or even all day last day ideally, so 2 hours tops travel distance.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:30:06 GMT

Tony_H wrote:
I was looking for somewhere I could get to and ski first afternoon, or even all day last day ideally, so 2 hours tops travel distance.

Based on that criteria, your choice of destination is Chamonix. It's an hours drive from Geneva, all autoroute. :D

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 12:47:07 GMT

bandit wrote:

Tony_H wrote:
I was looking for somewhere I could get to and ski first afternoon, or even all day last day ideally, so 2 hours tops travel distance.

Based on that criteria, your choice of destination is Chamonix. It's an hours drive from Geneva, all autoroute. :D

Or Flaine, Le Grand Bornard, Les Carroz, Les Houches, Morzine, Samoens, La Clusaz, Morillon or Villars.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:21:48 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

bandit wrote:

Tony_H wrote:
I was looking for somewhere I could get to and ski first afternoon, or even all day last day ideally, so 2 hours tops travel distance.

Based on that criteria, your choice of destination is Chamonix. It's an hours drive from Geneva, all autoroute. :D

Or Flaine, Le Grand Bornard, Les Carroz, Les Houches, Morzine, Samoens, La Clusaz, Morillon or Villars.

I would suggest that with the exception of Les Houches, all the others do not enjoy Autoroute to the door, and will take longer than an hour unless you are local ) )

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:07:41 GMT

Here's another suggestion to add to your confusion.
We have stayed on two or three occasions in La Tzoumaz (AKA Mayon des Riddes)-over the hill from Verbier and part of the Verbier ski area. It's a pretty little village with good lifts and, in my opinion, some of the nicest skiing in the Verbier/4 Valleys area, including accessible off piste in the trees. I think you could get to it by taking the train to Sion, and then a 30 min taxi ride. We stayed at the Auberge La Tzoumaz (it has a website under that name)-about 5 mins walk to the lift. It's a sweet little auberge, cosy bar, lovely brekkie and nice food in the evenings. There are half a dozen reasonable restaurants in the village, but not much else!
Madame doesn't speak much english, but was very welcoming. She only has about 5 rooms, a couple are ensuite-and nearly all have a spectacular view from big picture windows.

If you're still thinking about Verbier and staying in Le Chable-make sure you ski in Bruson-part of the ski area but you get a shuttle bus from Le Chable up to the lift. It's very quiet and miles away from the madness and hustle and bustle of Verbier (which I think is rather overrated).

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:32:48 GMT

I like the idea of getting Mrs H to Verbier seeing as I skied it with my daughter only. I thought about Nendaz and Thyon as options, but would be more than happy to stay in Verbier Le Hameau where I did before. I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the skiing in the 4 valleys.

Bandit, problem with Chamonix is 2 things:
1. I find the area very disjointed and it seems you need a car to get around to the different areas.
2. I will invariably want to do the Valley Blanche, but Mrs H has said "over my dead body" (which I told her could easily be organised....) so I need to resist the temptation.

Le Grand Bornard suddenly takes on interest, although like La Clusaz it seems awfully low.
A friend of mine drives to Les Gets every year and swears by the place but like Morzine its another low resort. Avoriaz has more appeal in terms of height and reliability..?

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:06:36 GMT

Tony,
Go to Avoriaz. Its only an hour from Geneva,is very snow sure and has plenty to keep you busy for a few days. Chamonix would be great for the lads but not Mrs H, and your right it is a pain to get around.
Gar.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:24:17 GMT

Gareth Fair wrote:Tony,
Go to Avoriaz. Chamonix would be great for the lads but not Mrs H, and your right it is a pain to get around.
Gar.

Speaking as someone who has spent many weeks skiing in and around Chamonix, I really can't see what the issues are with getting around there with or without a car :?:

The resort runs a perfectly acceptable and comprehensive bus service, though it's useful to have a car so you can ski 2 hills in one day if you want to (I have done this).

Pleny of women find great skiing in and around Chamonix too :shock:

The architecture of Avoriaz, you'll either love it or hate it, but you won't be ignoring it.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:59:39 GMT

bandit wrote:

Gareth Fair wrote:Tony,
Go to Avoriaz. Chamonix would be great for the lads but not Mrs H, and your right it is a pain to get around.
Gar.

Speaking as someone who has spent many weeks skiing in and around Chamonix, I really can't see what the issues are with getting around there with or without a car :?:

The resort runs a perfectly acceptable and comprehensive bus service, though it's useful to have a car so you can ski 2 hills in one day if you want to (I have done this).

Pleny of women find great skiing in and around Chamonix too :shock:

The architecture of Avoriaz, you'll either love it or hate it, but you won't be ignoring it.

So there are plenty of women in chamonix, interesting :wink: :wink:

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 00:30:15 GMT

I can see why it is Fred Drift. You indicated a list of possible places, many of which would be difficult to ski on the flying day, and then later, added a preference to ski on the flying day. And that was the reason that you gave to steer you away from Zermatt.

Most times, it is fantasy to plan a same day fly & ski in central Europe, and hope to get more than a couple of hours meaningful skiing, diy or TO.

It is theoretically possible to fly/ski Zermatt, but it wouldn't make any sense. al benefit of diy, is that you could get a Friday pm flight, train up to Zermatt, arriving late. Ski eight and a half days, and catch a train/late flight back on the Sunday.

Cost, on a 7 day costing, the exhange rate is a bit different from what I thought: Rail 200 SwF =GBP125, 3* Hotel 420Fpp = GBP262
Total GBP387.
Add GBP15/night food, under GBP500
There are 2 *hotels at half of the above price.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:47:31 GMT

Dave Mac, there would be no reason for Fred to pay 200 chf to transfer to Zermatt, when a Transfer Ticket is available for GBP75 ish?
Or would there? :D

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:55:34 GMT

^^GBP72.50 is the cheapest cost for the transfer...but definitely not fly/ski on the same day unless you left the UK at midnight...the only place I have been able to do this (so far) is Obertuern,, 6am flight 12.30pm ski...and remember you have an hours time difference in the winter wherever you go

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:26:30 GMT

daved wrote:^^GBP72.50 is the cheapest cost for the transfer...

Do you have a link or supplier details for the transfer at that price please?

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:05:08 GMT

now you don't read all my posts :( ....it was on page two of this one

http://www.swisspasses.com/

I used them last year

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:24:58 GMT

daved wrote:now you don't read all my posts :( ....it was on page two of this one

http://www.swisspasses.com/

I used them last year

Thanks :D This is the company I already use, GBP76 including the cheapest delivery option.

Re:A little bit of help from our experienced travellers please

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:28:58 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:I can see why it is Fred Drift. You indicated a list of possible places, many of which would be difficult to ski on the flying day, and then later, added a preference to ski on the flying day. And that was the reason that you gave to steer you away from Zermatt.

Most times, it is fantasy to plan a same day fly & ski in central Europe, and hope to get more than a couple of hours meaningful skiing, diy or TO.

It is theoretically possible to fly/ski Zermatt, but it wouldn't make any sense. al benefit of diy, is that you could get a Friday pm flight, train up to Zermatt, arriving late. Ski eight and a half days, and catch a train/late flight back on the Sunday.

Cost, on a 7 day costing, the exhange rate is a bit different from what I thought: Rail 200 SwF =GBP125, 3* Hotel 420Fpp = GBP262
Total GBP387.
Add GBP15/night food, under GBP500
There are 2 *hotels at half of the above price.

Thanks Mr Pedant, maybe I didnt make it totally clear. I want to do something cheap and local to one of the airports mentioned. I also want to make it a short break of about 4 days or so. I want to do Zermatt, but it wont be on this trip, so can we move on please?