Latest posts for the topic "blue runs - not??"

blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:15:38 GMT

Following on from an issue raised in ski etiquette why on earth are so many of those runs with the narrow road section classed as blue?! I am a pretty reasoanble skier but still hate them as I am aware of the possibility than any small error could result in me lying in various size pieces 100 feet below, as evidenced by the poor guy in Alpe D'Huez this weekend.

It put my friend off skiing for life. After a very promising first day on the nursery slopes, the instructor took them up on the lift the next day and came down one of these which left the poor girl shaking for hours and a flat refusal to have any more to do with the sport!

I know skiiing is not for the faint hearted but I do think these runs need to be highlighted in some way so users can make informed decisions about the pistes they take.

Shazzo

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:28:08 GMT

I totally agree.

The problem is that these decisions are made by intermediate/advanced skiers who have forgotten the fear factor of being a beginner. Also, the marketing dept are likely to put a stop to any upward reclassification of a key connector that would potentialy discourage beginner skiers from choosing the resort in the first place.

I have always wondered if resorts ever employ/consult the odd beginner on their saftey crew. It might give them a unique insight into the world from their perspective.

The worst beginner unfriendly thing I have ever seen was where the trail crew had errected a big orange chicane fence (forcing skiers through a big s-turn) with the intention of slowing them down at the bottom of the hill. Unfortunately this had the effect of creating a huge ice mogul that even the most advanced were falling over. It turned a saftey feature into an potential death trap. (read in style of Lynn Faulds Wood) :)

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:37:42 GMT

I had a similar experience in Badhofgestein, one day on the greens and then onto a long narrow blue with the instructor, the slope was a road, heavily wooded with an almost shear drop on one side, i did'nt know the slope so I had not got a clue where the turns were in the road, it also crossed a very steep black slope so you had skiers and boarders wizzing passed you at high speed at one point. I was only able to snow plough at the time so my legs were wrecked after snow ploughing constantly for nearly two hours. i don't blame the resort because the gradient was probably blue I blame the ski instructor who should never have taken us on this slope after one day. It did put me off skiing the next day to be honest but then he took us on a very wide blue which was steeper but with a lot more room to turn and moderate your speed.
I would much rather ski on a nice wide red than a narrow blue as it is more forgiving if i make a mistake

blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:05:07 GMT

shazzo wrote:
Following on from an issue raised in ski etiquette why on earth are so many of those runs with the narrow road section classed as blue?! I am a pretty reasoanble skier but still hate them as I am aware of the possibility than any small error could result in me lying in various size pieces 100 feet below, as evidenced by the poor guy in Alpe D'Huez this weekend.

It put my friend off skiing for life. After a very promising first day on the nursery slopes, the instructor took them up on the lift the next day and came down one of these which left the poor girl shaking for hours and a flat refusal to have any more to do with the sport!

I know skiiing is not for the faint hearted but I do think these runs need to be highlighted in some way so users can make informed decisions about the pistes they take.

Shazzo

steverandomno wrote:The problem is that these decisions are made by intermediate/advanced skiers who have forgotten the fear factor of being a beginner.

There's some misconceptions here. The run grading isn't arbitrary, it's based on gradients so it's an absolute measure not something someone made up, the idea that an experienced skier or instructor lacks the insight into what other people might find hard doesn't really stand up either.

The accident in Alpe D'Huez is very unfortunate and not all the facts are known yet but it was identified the skier was travelling at some speed and we know from the figures that skiing is pretty safe as a rule, not only in general, but specifically on that run in that ski station there's no history of accidents. You can judge how unlikely it is that something could "result in me lying in various size pieces 100 feet below" by how many times it happens which is not often.

If you're with an instructor then that's different, they shouldn't take you anywhere there's absolute risk and if they are they are at fault. But they should take you places where there's perceived and actual risk, one of things a beginner isn't good at is judging those differences. In outdoor ed' you reckon "no risk, no fun" :D If you're using a instructor and particularly a guide then you expect to be in that actual risk zone, it's one of the biggest things you're paying them for.

Like a lot of activities the most dangerous bit of skiing is getting there and using the roads :D

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:47:53 GMT

I am not a fan of the blue "tracks" as I call them. These are often roads which are pisted in the winter, and usually offer nothing more than access from A to B. Yes they can be narrow, but you really have to learn to ski on all types of surfaces and width runs.
It does not mean all blues are tracks, but it probably does mean all tracks are blues. I prefer to ski reds as I prefer something with more momentum, and I obviously prefer wider reds too. But you cant always choose the type of piste you ski on.
I have found these kind of runs are often exit runs from a mountain, or links to a lift station. If you dont like them, you dont HAVE to ski them.

blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:57:47 GMT

ise wrote:
There's some misconceptions here. The run grading isn't arbitrary, it's based on gradients so it's an absolute measure not something someone made up, the idea that an experienced skier or instructor lacks the insight into what other people might find hard doesn't really stand up either.

Agreed. Though, it's not the by the book classification that is the issue. It is simply idenitifying places that can freak out a beginner even though it meets all of the criteria for a "blue run". e.g. a gentle slope 4 meters wide may qualify as a blue but if you don't fence off the 2,000ft drop off the side, you will freak out the beginners. (I'm exagerating for illustration :-) ) !

My example above - where the trail crew inadvertantly created a huge ice mogul is a good example.

P.s. I'm interested - what are the criteria used in Europe. I always thought it depended on the resort?

blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:05:42 GMT

steverandomno wrote:
P.s. I'm interested - what are the criteria used in Europe. I always thought it depended on the resort?

there's an homologation, you can see the signs in places stating when it was done I think. I've no idea if the full criteria are available somewhere but I think piste grading is one of a number of items. Of course the ski company insurers will also act to ensure grading is consistent

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:17:16 GMT

Im not sure if it is the same over there but here in Canada it goes:
Green (easiest)
Blue (intermediate)
Black diamond (difficult,steep)
double black diamond (experts only)

"steverandomno wrote:The problem is that these decisions are made by intermediate/advanced skiers who have forgotten the fear factor of being a beginner"
He is right,I admit I have innocently done that to my friends..not realizing that they are really scared. :(

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:53:05 GMT

Tony_H wrote:I am not a fan of the blue "tracks" as I call them. These are often roads which are pisted in the winter, and usually offer nothing more than access from A to B. Yes they can be narrow, but you really have to learn to ski on all types of surfaces and width runs.
It does not mean all blues are tracks, but it probably does mean all tracks are blues. I prefer to ski reds as I prefer something with more momentum, and I obviously prefer wider reds too. But you cant always choose the type of piste you ski on.
I have found these kind of runs are often exit runs from a mountain, or links to a lift station. If you dont like them, you dont HAVE to ski them.

i don't mind the narrow tracks it's the flatness of them that drives me mad :evil:

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:06:21 GMT

i have been reading this thread, i thought blue runs were beginner slopes i cant figure out the narrow icy track bit? am i getting it wrong again?

i also thought the blues were very wide and only a gentle slope.

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:12:45 GMT

Don't worry about it!

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:16:04 GMT

steverandomno wrote:

The problem is that these decisions are made by intermediate/advanced skiers who have forgotten the fear factor of being a beginner. Also, the marketing dept are likely to put a stop to any upward reclassification of a key connector that would potentialy discourage beginner skiers from choosing the resort in the first place.

I have always wondered if resorts ever employ/consult the odd beginner on their saftey crew. It might give them a unique insight into the world from their perspective.

Although I'm sure that marketing comes into it - Val d'Isere comes to mind :D That 'blue' run back into the village from Solaise is only a blue cos it needs to look on the piste map as if there is an easy route back home. )

Having spent years teaching on snow I'm pretty sure that instructors are in a better position to determine the grade of a run than the beginners they are teaching. After all they spend hours/days picking the easiest route down a piste for their charges.

The thing that makes that Solaise blue run that I mentioned particularly tricky for some is not its steepness as such or its width but the fact that it 'falls' in 2 different directions at the same time. This makes turning in one paricular direction very scary for those of a nervous disposition.

I think that by and large most resorts get their grading about right but there will be an exception or 2 in every resort.

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:39:53 GMT

amanda n wrote:i have been reading this thread, i thought blue runs were beginner slopes i cant figure out the narrow icy track bit? am i getting it wrong again?

i also thought the blues were very wide and only a gentle slope.

It seems mainly in France that mountain roads are left to the elements, and hey presto a blue run, they normally run through the valleys so they are pretty flat, and the width of a road :shock: :shock:

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:51:42 GMT

I know what everyone means about 'blue tracks'. The so called 'beginner's run' in Sauze is a nightmare, as although it's pretty flat, there is no room to turn so it's a case of snowplough all the way down which is knackering. :(

I can understand the thought behind using this, as it got us up the mountain on our second day, but the red route down in not particularly steep and is much more pleasant as you can actually practice your turns. Let's just say that given the option on day 3, we all chose the red alternative instead! :D

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:15:01 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

amanda n wrote:i have been reading this thread, i thought blue runs were beginner slopes i cant figure out the narrow icy track bit? am i getting it wrong again?

i also thought the blues were very wide and only a gentle slope.

It seems mainly in France that mountain roads are left to the elements, and hey presto a blue run, they normally run through the valleys so they are pretty flat, and the width of a road :shock: :shock:

thanks wickers didnt realise that

Re:blue runs - not??

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:16:20 GMT

amanda n wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

amanda n wrote:i have been reading this thread, i thought blue runs were beginner slopes i cant figure out the narrow icy track bit? am i getting it wrong again?

i also thought the blues were very wide and only a gentle slope.

It seems mainly in France that mountain roads are left to the elements, and hey presto a blue run, they normally run through the valleys so they are pretty flat, and the width of a road :shock: :shock:

thanks wickers didnt realise that

Thats what I'm here for :mrgreen: