Latest posts for the topic "Natasha Richardson"

Natasha Richardson

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:00:16 GMT

Be careful out there:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_en_mo/people_natasha_richardson

MONTREAL (AP) - British actress Natasha Richardson was hospitalized after falling on a beginners trail at the famed Mont Tremblant ski resort during a lesson, the resort and published reports said Tuesday.

Further reporting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7947826.stm

Who the hell is that?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7948793.stm

Re:Natasha Richardson

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:10:28 GMT

I just remember her from the film the parent trap. She was apparantly laughing and joking initially after the accident and then by the time they got her down the mountain that had all changed...........how sad.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:29:07 GMT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7949195.stm

^^No way, that is absolutely horrible, what are the chances!?!!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:20:18 GMT

Every day is precious

Trencher

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:24:51 GMT

Very sad,feel so bad for her kids and husband :cry:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 05:08:40 GMT

I thought brain injuries were immediate.
Such a sad unnecessary story :(

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:30:36 GMT

IceGhost wrote:I thought brain injuries were immediate.

They are, it's just you've no pain receptors in the brain so (excepting a penetrating injury) symptoms don't start until some sort of inflammation has occurred. Most serious brain injury is linked to a loss of consciousness at the time although it seems that didn't occur here. Inter cranial pressure or ICP is caused by slow bleeds or swelling similar to bruising, it can occur up to one week from the original impact, arterial bleeds into the brain cause much the same and are similarly difficult to treat.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:40:40 GMT

What a horrible story! Her poor family. I never would have thought anyone could die from such a minor accident.

I have had concussion twice (falling off my horse as a child), and been hospitalized once with it, and given anti brain bleed drugs. Strangely enough I don't remember any head pain, even though I was knocked unconscious, just confusion and I was staggering about, like a drunk. I was wearing a riding hat at the time, though.

I think I am going to have a go wearing a helmet next year, ski-ing.

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:59:44 GMT

This story is so sad. My cousin is married to Liam and Natashas niece so I feel for them too, she has lost am amazing aunty.

I think this will certaily highlight the helmet issue and they could even become compulsory in the near future.

Sad day.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:22:20 GMT

It's so sad when tragedies like this happen; it just goes to show how easily life changing and as in this case fatal injuries can be suffered.

I just hope that this will encourage more people to wear helmets on the slopes.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:28:09 GMT

This is tragic, it's made me very sad.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:35:14 GMT

Very sad. Thoughts go out to her friends and family.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:42:45 GMT

More and more adults are wearing helmets these days,i borrowed my sons a year ago (he boards) only to listen to my Ipod through his inbuilt headphones. I have since bought my own and so has my better half.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:26:40 GMT

Very sad :cry:

I husband TOLD me this morning that he is buying me helmet.I know I will be buying him one too.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:30:31 GMT

Call me stupid, but it has not changed my opinion on helmets or wearing ipods when skiing :evil:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:48:25 GMT

itis very sad but i will probably get shot down for this but i am a firm believer in if your time is up it's up and no matter where you are, what you are doing,or what you are wearing when the bell tolls your gone.
yes measures can be taken to prevent injuries but alas we cant stop time ending. :(

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:50:35 GMT

Can't stop it ending but you can improve your chances of keeping it going a little longer.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:06:43 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:Can't stop it ending but you can improve your chances of keeping it going a little longer.

Have to agree with Pablo on this one. I am going to get a helmet for next season.

My daughter banged the back of her head when she was 16 and developed a sub dural haematoma, which only became apparant several weeks later. This had obviously been a slow bleed and she became very ill with headaches, nausea, vomiting, lethargy and tingling in her fingers of her left hand. My GP at the time kept putting down to side effects of her having Glandular Fever. I just knew there was more to it than that and so sought another opinion. She underwent surgery that same day and I'm glad to say is absolutely fine now, but it just shows you that it can happen to anyone of any age at any time.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:52:50 GMT

As everyone has said, this is a sad event for sure. We all realize we are in a high risk sport and accidents can easily happen. The thing we learn from this is more proof of how even a simple fall on a relatively safe slope can be so devastating. Also learned is that even a simple bang to the head should be checked out.

My wife and I have worn helmets since we took up skiing; but the most whacks to the head, which increased our appreciation of the head warming helmets, happened from bringing the safety bar down on the chair lift.

Ian, they just make sense!

However to each their own - until wearing helmets becomes legislated. It is easier to join the helmeted world of one's free will than to be forced into one.

Mike

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:59:22 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:As everyone has said, this is a sad event for sure. We all realize we are in a high risk sport and accidents can easily happen. The thing we learn from this is more proof of how even a simple fall on a relatively safe slope can be so devastating. Also learned is that even a simple bang to the head should be checked out.

My wife and I have worn helmets since we took up skiing; but the most whacks to the head, which increased our appreciation of the head warming helmets, happened from bringing the safety bar down on the chair lift.

Ian, they just make sense!

However to each their own - until wearing helmets becomes legislated. It is easier to join the helmeted world of one's free will than to be forced into one.

Mike

Mike, you are a man of wisdom :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:09:56 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:We all realize we are in a high risk sport and accidents can easily happen.

no we don't because we aren't, the number of accidents per skier days is very low, it's an extremely safe sport with very little absolute risk.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:20:37 GMT

amanda n wrote:itis very sad but i will probably get shot down for this but i am a firm believer in if your time is up it's up and no matter where you are, what you are doing,or what you are wearing when the bell tolls your gone.
yes measures can be taken to prevent injuries but alas we cant stop time ending. :(

No one's gonna shoot you down for having an opinion, I'm not a doctor but there is a possibility NR had a weakness from a previous, my point is the sport is quite safe and I am not going to panic
and run out and buy a helmet, I will possibly talk it over with my family but ultimately I do not feel the need to panic buy, I wonder if the helmet prices will suddenly increase I have already had an email today from " ski warehouse " advertising helmets.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:22:06 GMT

If I was a helmet retailed I would have put prices up, it would be the sensible thing to do!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:23:18 GMT

prices will rocket now, down to personal choice

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:24:14 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:If I was a helmet retailed I would have put prices up, it would be the sensible thing to do!

You have now lost me if thats the case I will never buy one, can't stand it when shops do that, To's are the same :evil:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:25:23 GMT

It makes good business sense. You might not buy one but that won't stop most people!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:33:10 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:Call me stupid, but it has not changed my opinion on helmets or wearing ipods when skiing :evil:

Just curious...........does little Wickham wear one?

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:35:19 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:It makes good business sense. You might not buy one but that won't stop most people!

But that is the individuals decision, Freedom of speech, power to the people 8)

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:37:25 GMT

Eljay wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:Call me stupid, but it has not changed my opinion on helmets or wearing ipods when skiing :evil:

Just curious...........does little Wickham wear one?

I would be a poor parent if I did not insist on Little W wearing one, I'm not anti helmets I just do not feel the need to wear one :shock:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:38:12 GMT

You and me both on that one Ian

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:39:48 GMT

amanda n wrote:prices will rocket now, down to personal choice

It's proving hard enough to find one as it is...
Our local sports shop, that only sells a small selection anyway, only has Junior XS or Adult L

Will go further afield but I was thinking the same! I MIGHT have to go over the bridge...scary. (To Bristol, if you are wondering where that's to)

Be a devil to get one now....I'm only one in the family who doesn't wear one and I'm under a certain amount of pressure now..and after all I'd hate them to be right.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:40:01 GMT

As I said............was just curious

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:42:17 GMT

Dids1 wrote:

amanda n wrote:prices will rocket now, down to personal choice

It's proving hard enough to find one as it is...
Our local sports shop, that only sells a small selection anyway, only has Junior XS or Adult L

Will go further afield but I was thinking the same! I MIGHT have to go over the bridge...scary. (To Bristol, if you are wondering where that's to)

Be a devil to get one now....I'm only one in the family who doesn't wear one and I'm under a certain amount of pressure now..and after all I'd hate them to be right.

dont do it dids dont go over that bridge lol

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:56:36 GMT

Dids1 wrote:

amanda n wrote:prices will rocket now, down to personal choice

It's proving hard enough to find one as it is...
Our local sports shop, that only sells a small selection anyway, only has Junior XS or Adult L

Will go further afield but I was thinking the same! I MIGHT have to go over the bridge...scary. (To Bristol, if you are wondering where that's to)

Be a devil to get one now....I'm only one in the family who doesn't wear one and I'm under a certain amount of pressure now..and after all I'd hate them to be right.

If it is for a kid, I bought little W's on the internet no problems with size just measured her head and paid the money, this one come with inserts to help get the right fit, Little W is quite slight of build just like her father :mrgreen:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:00:50 GMT

amanda n wrote:

Dids1 wrote:

amanda n wrote:prices will rocket now, down to personal choice

It's proving hard enough to find one as it is...
Our local sports shop, that only sells a small selection anyway, only has Junior XS or Adult L

Will go further afield but I was thinking the same! I MIGHT have to go over the bridge...scary. (To Bristol, if you are wondering where that's to)

Be a devil to get one now....I'm only one in the family who doesn't wear one and I'm under a certain amount of pressure now..and after all I'd hate them to be right.

dont do it dids dont go over that bridge lol

I might fall in and a Trolly Woll might get me...but I'll be wearing my new HELMET!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:02:12 GMT

:shock: :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:15:48 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:If I was a helmet retailed I would have put prices up, it would be the sensible thing to do!

It would be the greedy thing to do, the smart retailer would undercut and make a killing :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:02:11 GMT

http://www.skiwear4less.com/

Look at top right hand corner........even they are cashing in

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:05:12 GMT

It would be the greedy thing to do, the smart retailer would undercut and make a killing :wink:

And http://www.skiwear4less.com/ are...
You prophesised (is there such a word?) it Ian...

(Thanks Rose for spotting this site)

I am a bit confused tho and will need to deffo try one on before I buy.

My son's helmet is 58cm and he is just growing out of it. New last year, it fits my 13 yo daughter & me, but some of the ladies ones on this site are 52 & 54cm...I thought my head was smallish. The women these are for must have weeny heads.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:34:55 GMT

Dids1 wrote:

My son's helmet is 58cm and he is just growing out of it. New last year, it fits my 13 yo daughter & me, but some of the ladies ones on this site are 52 & 54cm...I thought my head was smallish. The women these are for must have weeny heads.

My helmet is a 54cm. Are you calling me a pinhead :lol: It's this one.

http://www.boeri.com/steez.html#

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:47:05 GMT

Rose,
I thought the helmets on that website skiwear4less.com were reduced? e.g. from GBP30 down to GBP7-99. (And thanks - it looks a good on-line shop.)

Logically, if more people buy and wear helmets, the price of them should drop, as soon as the manufacturers have caught up with the backlog, because they will become less of a special item, and probably more manufacturers will make them.

Does anyone know how you pick a good helmet?

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:59:20 GMT

I wish I had not discovered that site, its just cost me a lot of money, bought Hubby a new jacket.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:59:39 GMT

AllyG wrote:

Does anyone know how you pick a good helmet?

Ally

Buy the one that fits you, it's that simple :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:59:42 GMT

What one?

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:03:55 GMT

The black Ripcurl the bomb one. He always wears camoflauge or Khaki jackets and he looks like a terrorist so I bought black and he's a big Ripcurl fan.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:16:48 GMT

RoseR wrote: He always wears camoflauge or Khaki jackets and he looks like a terrorist.

And you wonder why you always get strip searched at Bournemouth airport????? :lol:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:18:30 GMT

But surely there must be a more scientific way of picking helmets than by which is the prettiest etc.?

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:22:38 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

RoseR wrote: He always wears camoflauge or Khaki jackets and he looks like a terrorist.

And you wonder why you always get strip searched at Bournemouth airport????? :lol:

No he does'nt, and I wear normal gear and its always me they pick on, and even worse at Gatwick this year my rucksack was tested for drugs. Actually its always been a worry for me because of the job I do, do any of the drugs get absorbed and a sniffer dog picks me out.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:28:03 GMT

One Bournemouth terrorist :lol:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 00:29:23 GMT

ise wrote:

Mike from NS wrote:We all realize we are in a high risk sport and accidents can easily happen.

no we don't because we aren't, the number of accidents per skier days is very low, it's an extremely safe sport with very little absolute risk.

Well I'm not going to debate how high or low risk skiing may be. Too many factors come into play. For some of us, the places we ski sets the level of risk. In some parts of Atlantic Canada we ski mostly on ice and in my mind this elevates the risk level over that if skiing in powder. Also the risk level I suppose may be related to opinion. There are many opinions out there which consider skiing as a high risk sport.

Just as Tony and Ian are not fans of the anti-helmet side of the equation I am not a pro-helmet type of person. Wearing a helmet for skiing works for me. It helps keep my ears warm and helps to avoid bumps with the safety bar. And since I absolutely refuse to wear a hat or toque, the helmet is my choice of head gear. So far forcing people to wear helmets in the rinks is just talk but more and more are wearing them during skating. I'm not one - I don't mind the cold of the rinks. Wearing a helmet here as on the slopes is likely a sensible choice but ... each to their own.

What is also sad about this whole incident of the accident is as Rose pointed out of how this tragedy has been used to market helmets in the name of safety. Although it strikes me this is simply cheap fear mongering in extremely poor taste. I for one would be sure not to purchase anything from an outfit looking to profit in such a manner.

From the little we know or will ever know of the accident, we will likely never know if wearing a helmet would have brought any different conclusion.

Mike

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 06:23:51 GMT

On the news tonight in Canada on all channels, every first story is about skiing and helmets. How they should be the law to have to wear one.....just like when riding motorcycles .

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:59:15 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:Well I'm not going to debate how high or low risk skiing may be. Too many factors come into play. For some of us, the places we ski sets the level of risk. In some parts of Atlantic Canada we ski mostly on ice and in my mind this elevates the risk level over that if skiing in powder. Also the risk level I suppose may be related to opinion. There are many opinions out there which consider skiing as a high risk sport.

There might well be but presumably held by people who don't actually understand risk as a concept. Recreational skiing on and off piste are low risk activities, a lot of people measure and monitor this not least insurance companies so it's pretty well understood.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:35:07 GMT

bandit wrote:

AllyG wrote:

Does anyone know how you pick a good helmet?

Ally

Buy the one that fits you, it's that simple :D

I would imagine all helmets adhere to minimum standards, so it probably is as simple as buying one that fits & is comfortable. If it doesn't fit it might not be safe.

Personally I would avoid buying one off the web unless I had tried the same model on. I mentioned this before, the sizes seem to vary hugely. My son's Cebe helmet, size 58cm fits me perfectly. It is snug, but comfortable. A mate brought a Salomon Brigade Audio size 54/55cm round for me to try - it fits-ish, but not comfortable, if anything slightly too much movement.
It 's got ipod headphones in it (I'm not sure about skiing with ipods - is it safe?) and looks cool..except for the peak which can be removed.

If I were you, I would take my time and try a few on.
Another expense!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:46:57 GMT

There are plenty of idiots on the piste who make skiing just the little bit more dangerous, and in a recent weekend away I saw enough wince-inducing falls, some caused by third parties behaving irresponsibly, to come to the conclusion that no matter how cautiously I ski, my fate is out of my hands.

I have two sons, one wife, and a reasonable amount of people who seem to care after my wellbeing. I also have just the one head, and despite its meagre contents it's all I have to play with.

Those who said that there is no way of telling if Natasha Richardson would have had a better chance of surviving a very undramatic fall if she were wearing a helmet are right; there is no way of telling.

All these reasons are why I wear a helmet.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:50:41 GMT

ise wrote:

Mike from NS wrote:..... There are many opinions out there which consider skiing as a high risk sport.

There might well be but presumably held by people who don't actually understand risk as a concept. Recreational skiing on and off piste are low risk activities, a lot of people measure and monitor this not least insurance companies so it's pretty well understood.

True ... Little kids, for example, don't usually grasp the concept of risk. When the skier has developed some skill, ability, control and confidence for the conditions before them, recreational skiing is indeed a relatively safe activity. However the little girl passing beneath the lift I was on last weekend screaming her head off while travelling straight down the hill and completely out of control is one example of the many factors that come into play in determining a dangerous level of the activity. She almost took out two or three others missing them by inches. I think she may be able to grasp the risk concept a little better now. The out of control skier is just one factor that puts a risk factor in skiing. Tell my friend who was cut off by a boarded a few weeks ago and sustained 2 broken ribs and a cracked one just how safe it really is. If the hills and their insurance companies felt there was no risk, they would likely not insist on their clients signing waivers.

Mike

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:04:51 GMT

Thanks Dids,
For the tip about buying helmets. I guess you're right, and if I buy one I'd better go to a shop that sells them, and try them on.

I wondered if they have different strengths - like one for recreational on piste skiers, and a different gauge of helmet for e.g. slalom racers who would be going much faster.

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:04:51 GMT

Interesting discussion about "risk" and the understanding of risk as a concept. What is "risk"?...it is the probability or likelihood of a specified outcome occurring in a specified period. In the context of skiing the risk of fatality to an individual is relatively low. The risk of injury, however, is significantly higher.

The risk of injury or fatality is influenced by a number of factors, many of which we can't control such as the conditions, other clowns, snowboarders ;), etc, but some of which we can control - where we ski, when we ski and how we ski.

There is, however, always going to be finite risk of fatality whilst skiing and the natural reaction to that should be to try and reduce that risk by the application of practical measures.

The risk of fatality due to head injuries whilst skiing can be reduced by wearing a helmet.....it doesn't make skiing safe, and won't stop you from breaking your leg, but it reduces the probability of a head knock resulting in a serious injury or death.

I know of two head injuries causing death on the ski slopes, in one resort in the last 2 years. One on a green slope, fell trying to prevent a collision, forehead pierced by ski. One on a steeper slope, skier fell, was initially unharmed and laughing, but unable to stop herself sliding down the slope headfirst into a tree, hit her head, died.

I don't believe that it should be mandatory to wear a helmet, because everybody should be educated well enough to make their own decisions about managing risk. Unfortunately, that's the bit where we fail as a society...educating people to allow them to take responsibility and make their own decisions.... :)

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:20:37 GMT

AllyG wrote:Thanks Dids,
For the tip about buying helmets. I guess you're right, and if I buy one I'd better go to a shop that sells them, and try them on.

I wondered if they have different strengths - like one for recreational on piste skiers, and a different gauge of helmet for e.g. slalom racers who would be going much faster.

Ally

Ally,
Aren't you going to Courcheval next year?

You''ll fit in a treat in this one
http://www.hdickinson.co.uk/public_listings.php?brand_category=Dior

Dids

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:27:00 GMT

bandit wrote:

Dids1 wrote:

My son's helmet is 58cm and he is just growing out of it. New last year, it fits my 13 yo daughter & me, but some of the ladies ones on this site are 52 & 54cm...I thought my head was smallish. The women these are for must have weeny heads.

My helmet is a 54cm. Are you calling me a pinhead :lol: It's this one.

http://www.boeri.com/steez.html#

:oops:
I measured my head as 56cm - which leads me to the conclusion that Cebe sizes are waaaay out

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:28:14 GMT

Very funny Dids! :lol:

We are going to Courchevel, but only the 1550 one, and we're going ultra cheap DIY staying in a maeva Pierre & Vacances studio apartment, and I don't plan to eat out, etc. etc. In other words, we're going for the ski-ing and window shopping etc. I may admire some helmets like that one - but if I buy one it will be from some bargain basement shop as long as it looks O.K.

I won't be going to that Michelin restaurant at 200 euros a meal, or buying that wine at 2000 a bottle (or whatever it is - something ridiculous like that), or buying that helmet either, thanks very much.

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 11:57:28 GMT

freobhoy wrote:Interesting discussion about "risk" and the understanding of risk as a concept. What is "risk"?...it is the probability or likelihood of a specified outcome occurring in a specified period. In the context of skiing the risk of fatality to an individual is relatively low. The risk of injury, however, is significantly higher.

The risk of injury or fatality is influenced by a number of factors, many of which we can't control such as the conditions, other clowns, snowboarders ;), etc, but some of which we can control - where we ski, when we ski and how we ski.

There is, however, always going to be finite risk of fatality whilst skiing and the natural reaction to that should be to try and reduce that risk by the application of practical measures.

The risk of fatality due to head injuries whilst skiing can be reduced by wearing a helmet.....it doesn't make skiing safe, and won't stop you from breaking your leg, but it reduces the probability of a head knock resulting in a serious injury or death.

I know of two head injuries causing death on the ski slopes, in one resort in the last 2 years. One on a green slope, fell trying to prevent a collision, forehead pierced by ski. One on a steeper slope, skier fell, was initially unharmed and laughing, but unable to stop herself sliding down the slope headfirst into a tree, hit her head, died.

I don't believe that it should be mandatory to wear a helmet, because everybody should be educated well enough to make their own decisions about managing risk. Unfortunately, that's the bit where we fail as a society...educating people to allow them to take responsibility and make their own decisions.... :)

GPWM.

I was beginining to wonder what ise meant when he said skiing was very low risk.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:03:14 GMT

freobhoy wrote:Interesting discussion about "risk" and the understanding of risk as a concept. What is "risk"?...it is the probability or likelihood of a specified outcome occurring in a specified period. In the context of skiing the risk of fatality to an individual is relatively low. The risk of injury, however, is significantly higher.

The risk of injury or fatality is influenced by a number of factors, many of which we can't control such as the conditions, other clowns, snowboarders ;), etc, but some of which we can control - where we ski, when we ski and how we ski.

There is, however, always going to be finite risk of fatality whilst skiing and the natural reaction to that should be to try and reduce that risk by the application of practical measures.

That's pretty much on the nail. Although, while it's true we can't control some factors we can reasonably predict them in two ways, one, by judging what that outcome will be and, two, from past evidence.

Risk is actually measured by taking a probability of event (based on past occurrence) and consequence. So for skiing, grouping a whole load of things, falls where you're injured are a low likelihood and the consequence isn't serious, by not serious we don't include a few weeks off work or a ruined holiday while as an individual these are pretty adverse outcomes. So that's a low risk.

Incidents with fatal outcomes are vanishingly rare in terms of numbers of days, that's an absolute thing and allows you to make comparison with other activities, ski days, car journeys, air flights etc, so the outcomes are nearly as bad as possible (the worst being multiple fatalities) but it's still a low risk as it's not likely to occur.

Unfortunately, what you get is people confusing outcomes with risk as several posters here have done. That's actually worse than just a misunderstanding, particularly when you start sharing it, because one of the most risky things you can do is not understand the risk you're in. Unless you know the risk you can't act to mitigate it.

That's technical risk, we also have another measure, distinguishing between perceived, real and absolute risk.

Perceived risk is often situations where consequences are actually pretty dire but the likelihood is remote, a good example is a high ropes course, falling from the top would be really bad but there's no real danger if you follow the safety procedures.

Real risk is when something could well happen, a trek up Snowdon for example, you've got all the kit on and have prepared but someone could still slip and fall for example. But, the risk is identified and mitigated, like carrying a rope for security and a first aid kit.

While absolute risk is where there's a high chance of adverse outcomes, so if instead of a qualified leader taking the group up Snowdon it's someone with no qualifications taking people out on a winter mountain without proper equipment. They might get back safely, they might have done so before even but there's still high chances of a problem with highly negative outcomes. Typically there's no mitigation either, the group will be ill equipped and ill prepared to deal with problems.

It's interesting that many members of the public cannot distinguish between those scenarios and can't identify the risk of those activities. There's been some stuff posted on the forum where absolute risk existed and no one noticed.

Mortlock (The Adventure Alternative) suggests four levels :

Stage 1: Play: Characterized by little emotion through relatively easy participation in activities which are below the person's skill level

Stage 2: Adventure: (Characterized by enjoyment and excitement, where a person's is using his her capabilities more fully, but the person maintains control over the situation and his/her self

Stage 3: Frontier Adventure: Characterized by peak experience, which emerges from a person experiencing adventurous challenges very close to his/her limits. If the person succeeds, then generally a peak experience is had, but there is real risk of pushing too far and falling/failing, leading to Stage 4.

Stage 4: Misadventure: Characterized by a person choosing or being forced to participate in challenges beyond his/her capabilities, resulting in negative emotions (fear, hurt, etc.), possibly injury and even ultimately death.

That's a variation on the same theme, you reckon learning or development takes place at stages 2 and 3 or in the real risk level. For learning or development you can substitute challenge which is something most skiers are looking for.

More than anything don't forget this, if you go and stand in the A&E department at a hospital near a ski area and do a poll with injured skiers and ask how many people were involved in their accident the overwhelming answer will be "just themselves"

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:04:45 GMT

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:27:52 GMT

Unfortunately the 'outcome' which prompted all this discussion is the death of a woman who probably perceived the 'risk' to be pretty minimal.

I agree that the apocryphal tales of 'I know a bloke who...' warp the reality of the serious events per day of injury-free skiing.

Now, no-one wants to take a risk assessor with them on holiday. So we either trust the bald stats that, on any given day, the risk of what we do is acceptable; or we over-compensate with bits of plastic and padding...

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:39:16 GMT

Unfortunately I have a Risk Manager with me everywhere I go :(

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:49:12 GMT

Timeforabeer wrote:Unfortunately the 'outcome' which prompted all this discussion is the death of a woman who probably perceived the 'risk' to be pretty minimal.

I agree that the apocryphal tales of 'I know a bloke who...' warp the reality of the serious events per day of injury-free skiing.

Now, no-one wants to take a risk assessor with them on holiday. So we either trust the bald stats that, on any given day, the risk of what we do is acceptable; or we over-compensate with bits of plastic and padding...

But you won't. I guarantee you that more lives will be saved if car passengers wear helmets, there's been deaths just today as a result but you're not going to wear a helmet next time you're in the car.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:50:26 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:Unfortunately I have a Risk Manager with me everywhere I go :(

I rather thought we all did :D The common sense someone mentioned earlier you'd hope :lol:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:12:59 GMT

ise wrote:

But you won't. I guarantee you that more lives will be saved if car passengers wear helmets, there's been deaths just today as a result but you're not going to wear a helmet next time you're in the car.

I take your point... we could always do more to mitigate against potentially bad outcomes, but it comes down to personal choice and, to a degree, expedience. And for some people, it makes little sense to protect against an outcome they expect not to befall them.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:15:31 GMT

Timeforabeer wrote: And for some people, it makes little sense to protect against an outcome they expect not to befall them.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :lol: :lol:

That was exactly the point I was making and have made a few hundred times before :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:16:27 GMT

Sorry to be slow, not made a study of your previous work.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:18:17 GMT

Just popping out for lunch now, obviously I will be wearing my meteorite collision mitigation headgear.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:21:21 GMT

Timeforabeer wrote:Just popping out for lunch now, obviously I will be wearing my meteorite collision mitigation headgear.

No good wearing the headgear if you are not keeping an eye on the sky :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:23:30 GMT

Timeforabeer wrote: And for some people, it makes little sense to protect against an outcome they expect not to befall them.

All the bad stuff happens only to others..... :mrgreen:

Mike :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:23:39 GMT

Are you insane?? Imagine all the hazards I would encounter if I was looking up at the sky!! Risk assessors everywhere would be having apoplexies....

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:30:09 GMT

Timeforabeer wrote:Are you insane?? Imagine all the hazards I would encounter if I was looking up at the sky!! Risk assessors everywhere would be having apoplexies....

If you plan to look up take a look at the Heavens Above site first and get the predictions for the space station and shuttle pass overs :!: ... not to mention lots of other space stuff.....
No sense wasting a developing painful neck :mrgreen:

Mike
.... oppps I wondered off piste ... sorry Dave :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:06:40 GMT

For me, it's quite simple. I just add up the pluses and minuses to wearing a helmet, and decide what to do.

Plus - it will decrease whatever minimal risk there is that I will damage my head while wearing my helmet.

Minus -
1. I will have to make the effort and spend the money to buy one, and then expend more effort taking it to the ski resort and back again, and storing it at home - or
2. I could hire one, costs money, and it might be bust already, or no good for some other reason.

3. I might get too hot in it and my head will get all sweaty and I won't be able to take it off and put it in my pocket (like I can with my woolly hat).

4. I might have trouble with my glasses and goggles when I'm wearing a helmet.

5. Where am I going to put it if I'm eating in a cafe?

6. It might be really uncomfortable, and I might not be able to hear properly when I'm wearing it, and I might keep banging my head on things because I'm not used to being taller, and the weight might make my neck ache.

7. I might not be able to see so well wearing it.

8. I will probably have to wash all the inner lining bits because they will get disgustingly sweaty.

9. I might look really stupid wearing one.

Now 9 is quite an interesting one, because if I was the only one wearing a helmet I probably would look really stupid, but if quite a few people are wearing one I won't, and if I'm the only one NOT wearing a helmet I will look stupid. And if it becomes compulsory I won't have to worry about looking stupid in one.

Another interesting factor in all this, is that plenty of people will make their kids wear a helmet, but they won't wear one themselves. Now why is this? Is it because they care more about their kids than themselves, or because they wouldn't be able to stand the guilt if something happened to their kids heads when they weren't wearing a helmet, or is it because there is a higher risk (actual or perceived) of head injury to a child than an adult?

I have always worn a riding hat on a horse, a seat belt when driving a car, and a lifejacket when sailing, so why don't I wear a helmet ski-ing? Possibly because no-one has told me to, and therefore I'm not in the habit of wearing one. I've never really thought about comparing the probabilites of death or serious injury from not wearing a life-jacket sailing, when compared to not wearing a helmet when ski-ing. I have to make a conscious decision to change my habits and start wearing a helmet. Maybe the kids who are now wearing helmets will keep wearing them as adults, and eventually everyone will wear them.

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:58:17 GMT

Ally,

This life is for you too ... don't let worry or concern over what others think of you or how you look steal your life from you :!:

Be safe and play hard but stay humble:mrgreen:

Mike :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:05:05 GMT

Mike,
Strangely enough, while writing out my list of 'fors' and 'againsts' I came to a decision about helmets.

I am going to rent one from the ski hire shop in resort for myself, because I don't care what it looks like, and if I can't stand wearing it I can give it back to the shop, and I'm going to buy one ahead of time for my daughter and carry it with us, because she does care a great deal about what it/she looks like, and it will have to be some trendy make and colour that is acceptable to her.

So, thanks very much, and you can be happy now that I've stopped worrying about this particular thing, and I can go and be anxious now about something else.

I don't think you'd ever get me to be humble though, it just isn't me - I make too much noise/type too much to be humble, but it's a nice idea.

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:08:29 GMT

AllyG wrote:
I don't think you'd ever get me to be humble though, it just isn't me - I make too much noise/type too much to be humble, but it's a nice idea.
Ally

:lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:

Mike :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:21:31 GMT

AllyG wrote:
Now 9 is quite an interesting one, because if I was the only one wearing a helmet I probably would look really stupid, but if quite a few people are wearing one I won't, and if I'm the only one NOT wearing a helmet I will look stupid. And if it becomes compulsory I won't have to worry about looking stupid in one.

Ally

It depends who you are woried about. Certainly in the US, the majority of serious skiers and boarders now wear helmets. It's beginners, teenagers, and the casual/one or two weeks a year people who don't. One reason might be that, if you are on the snow a lot, you will see and hear about more accidents. That tends to bring it closer to home.

Trencher

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:26:48 GMT

Trencher,
Last year I skied in France in Val Thorens and La Rosiere, and including this year at Val Thorens, I've skied in 7 separate ski classes, and there was only one person (Dutch) in all those classes who was wearing a helmet, and he did look a little odd. And before you ask, they were all upper intermediate lessons. None of our teachers were wearing helmets either.

I guess the U.S. has caught on earlier than us to this helmet issue.

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:41:58 GMT

I'm getting so worried about all these accidents which are happening according to the postings, I think I might pack up skiing all together cause it's too dangerous :evil:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:47:47 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:I'm getting so worried about all these accidents which are happening according to the postings, I think I might pack up skiing all together cause it's too dangerous :evil:

It's okay, they do make helmets in bigger sizes you know :D

I have been a helmet wearer since 2005 :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:49:55 GMT

bandit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:I'm getting so worried about all these accidents which are happening according to the postings, I think I might pack up skiing all together cause it's too dangerous :evil:

It's okay, they do make helmets in bigger sizes you know :D

I have been a helmet wearer since 2005 :D

I'm thinking now about not starting jogging in case I fall and bump my head :hunf:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:54:19 GMT

dont start wickers we have had enough earth quakes thanks :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:02:09 GMT

amanda n wrote:dont start wickers we have had enough earth quakes thanks :D

I have you know ladies I used to be quite an Athlete in my younger years then I discovered woman and it all went badly wrong :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:03:36 GMT

wickers we still love you lol fat or thin, bald or hairy, fit of unfit x

J2 wouldnt be the same without you

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:06:02 GMT

amanda n wrote:wickers we still love you lol fat or thin, bald or hairy, fit of unfit x

J2 wouldnt be the same without you

Amanda I know I am being a bit thick but what does lol mean :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:07:43 GMT

amanda n wrote:wickers we still love you lol fat or thin, bald or hairy, fit of unfit x

Steady on now :shock:

:lol:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:11:44 GMT

bandit wrote:

amanda n wrote:wickers we still love you lol fat or thin, bald or hairy, fit of unfit x

Steady on now :shock:

:lol:

See when it comes down to men, fat wins hands down, OOOhhh I feel so loved :thumbup:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:25:33 GMT

lol = lots of laughs or laugh out loud

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:29:02 GMT

amanda n wrote:lol = lots of laughs or laugh out loud

I'm sorry for being soooo dum :oops:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:30:12 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

amanda n wrote:lol = lots of laughs or laugh out loud

I'm sorry for being soooo dum :oops:

I'm sure she'll forgive you Homer.............doh!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:33:20 GMT

cough cough my son told me cough cough :oops:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:36:11 GMT

amanda n wrote:cough cough my son told me cough cough :oops:

You have lost me there :mrgreen:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:41:40 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

amanda n wrote:cough cough my son told me cough cough :oops:

You have lost me there :mrgreen:

You and me both Homer :?:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:44:40 GMT

Eljay wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

amanda n wrote:cough cough my son told me cough cough :oops:

You have lost me there :mrgreen:

You and me both Homer :?:

Who's bringing the doughnuts, Yum, Yum :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:52:00 GMT

ooooohhhhh Donuts. But they have to be Krispy Kreme. OMG I want one now :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:53:15 GMT

i was coughing because i also havent a clue my son keepsme up to date with the lingo

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:09:22 GMT

Eljay wrote:ooooohhhhh Donuts. But they have to be Krispy Kreme. OMG I want one now :D

We struggle to get them up this neck of the woods, they doughnut deliver this far out :mrgreen:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:44:43 GMT

amanda n wrote:lol = lots of laughs or laugh out loud

also = lots of love :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:46:20 GMT

caron-a wrote:

amanda n wrote:lol = lots of laughs or laugh out loud

also = lots of love :D

AAAAhhh Caron I didn't know you cared :mrgreen:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:10:27 GMT

I have plenty of love to go around :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:22:10 GMT

caron-a wrote:I have plenty of love to go around :D

Group Hug :mrgreen:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:41:33 GMT

could I apologise to whoever gave me one star above. It was an offensive comment wasn't it. You know how it is, friday night, a couple of glasses of wine, getting a bit gushy...

Anyway, I promise I'll try to curb my enthusiasm in future :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:31:14 GMT

caron-a wrote:could I apologise to whoever gave me one star above. It was an offensive comment wasn't it. You know how it is, friday night, a couple of glasses of wine, getting a bit gushy...

Anyway, I promise I'll try to curb my enthusiasm in future :D

No way was it an offensive comment I actually thought thats what LOL stood for :oops:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:27:12 GMT

i didnt think it was offensive, very cute, my god if it is lots of love then i have been lol'ing everyone on the internet oooo eee-rrrr

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:57:53 GMT

This is only my opinion and I will probably be struck down or at the very least the phantom one starrer will strike.
We try to take all steps in terms of safety so as not to ever give an insurance company or employer the chance not to pay out should we need it. Most of my insurance policy's say in the small print that we must take steps to avoid accidents, burglarys and injury.
To me that means when skiing for example I will wear decent boots, helmet wrist guards. My house will have security features and smoke alarms. I will only handle chemicals and garden machinery wearing all the safety gear that is reccomended. I will drive my car wearing a seat belt, have good tyres and good brakes. We all owe it to ourselves, other people and our families to take whatever steps you can to protect yourselves. Obviously there are occasions even when all steps have been take the inevitable can still happen.
We dont own our own helmets but always hire along with our ski's, but something some-one said on this thread about the chances that the person who hired before us may have had a fall has now made up our minds, we will definately be owning our own helmets before next winter hols.
On another theme not all deaths or accidents doing so called risky activities are as a direct result of doing risky things. Sometimes poor health has been the cause. I have known some-one who died in a headlong crash while car rallying, it was not the crash that killed him, he had died from a heart attack before the impact of the car. I know a young rugby player, died on the pitch during a tackle but it was not the tackle that killed, he had a massive heart attack. I know of a hang glider who died, but it was'nt the result of crashing to the ground, it was a blood clot to the brain that had killed him causing him to crash.
So to my mind you need to be aware of your health as well as safety gear to embark on any, so called risky sports.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:07:51 GMT

caron-a wrote:could I apologise to whoever gave me one star above. It was an offensive comment wasn't it. You know how it is, friday night, a couple of glasses of wine, getting a bit gushy...

Anyway, I promise I'll try to curb my enthusiasm in future :D

Afternoon all I have just got in from a busy day at the office, I have not taken any offence Caron, I thought it was a really nice comment, and as you know I do not use the star system, so there is nothing to apologise for, Can you feel the love, I can feel the love, can you feel the love

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:19:46 GMT

Ian,
You asked me, so I hope you won't be cross if I ask you, what do you do (at work I mean)?

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:25:23 GMT

AllyG wrote:Ian,
You asked me, so I hope you won't be cross if I ask you, what do you do (at work I mean)?

Ally

I'm a Supermarket Manager, I told you that it was boring :twisted:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:28:52 GMT

Ian,
I can see now why you keep making jokes and doing things like nearly causing me to get chucked off this site (over the XXX ad etc.)

I should think it's pretty tough being a supermarket manager, especially at the moment, when everyone is fighting to stay alive, and margins are getting thinner and thinner.

Ally

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:31:28 GMT

AllyG wrote:Ian,
I can see now why you keep making jokes and doing things like nearly causing me to get chucked off this site (over the XXX ad etc.)

I should think it's pretty tough being a supermarket manager, especially at the moment, when everyone is fighting to stay alive, and margins are getting thinner and thinner.

Ally

Recessions are about preparation, we have been preparing for the last 18 months so as of yet we have not felt the bite :wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:44:10 GMT

caron-a wrote:It was an offensive comment wasn't it

sorry guys, that was my attempt at humour. I'm not very good at it am I :oops:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:44:53 GMT

caron-a wrote:

caron-a wrote:It was an offensive comment wasn't it

sorry guys, that was my attempt at humour. I'm not very good at it am I :oops:

Haha, I got it.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:57:25 GMT

thanks Pablo :thumbup:

let's get back on thread now.

there seem to be a lot of people calling for helmets to become compulsory now. I have spoken to five skiers since this tragedy and only one says they've decided to wear a helmet. should it be about personal choice?

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:59:42 GMT

I think it can only be about personal choice (apart from the kidz). It would be daft if it wasn't.. I wear a helmet 90% of the time but there are times where I just don't, I think it would discourage people from trying out the sport.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:08:54 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:I think it can only be about personal choice (apart from the kidz). It would be daft if it wasn't.. I wear a helmet 90% of the time but there are times where I just don't, I think it would discourage people from trying out the sport.

It hurts me to say this but I agree with Scottish/Columbian fella 8)

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:10:47 GMT

THe very fact you agree makes me want to change my original statement :lol:
:wink:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:10:52 GMT

Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:11:29 GMT

I think that our kids will always wear them, because they've never known anything else.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:20:35 GMT

RoseR wrote:Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Any sport we play there is an element of risk, none more than jogging I have seen many joggers take a tumble as I have tennis & squash players but I do not see them wearing helmets, when these accidents happen it just brings it home to us that there is element of risk in our sport .
I may in the future wear a helmet but it will not be because of the recent publicity, but I do agree that all kids should wear helmets.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:32:32 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:I think it can only be about personal choice (apart from the kidz). It would be daft if it wasn't.. I wear a helmet 90% of the time but there are times where I just don't, I think it would discourage people from trying out the sport.

We've a local clown who turned up to teach over the Christmas break wearing a full face helmet :roll: It's a bit of dilemma if you wear an ordinary helmet to teach but it's pretty obvious you look a total tit in a full face one teaching a snow plough and it intimidates learners. Mountaineering you reckon on using the same PPE as students, skiing should be the same really.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:43:55 GMT

ise wrote:

Pablo Escobar wrote:I think it can only be about personal choice (apart from the kidz). It would be daft if it wasn't.. I wear a helmet 90% of the time but there are times where I just don't, I think it would discourage people from trying out the sport.

We've a local clown who turned up to teach over the Christmas break wearing a full face helmet :roll: It's a bit of dilemma if you wear an ordinary helmet to teach but it's pretty obvious you look a total tit in a full face one teaching a snow plough and it intimidates learners. Mountaineering you reckon on using the same PPE as students, skiing should be the same really.

Perhaps he was just really bad looking his own face may have scared the kids :lol:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:08:29 GMT

Beginners really don't have the experience to make an informed decision on whether to wear a helmet. Their best guide as to whether a helmet is a sensible choice, is their instructor. The instructor teaching a beginner lesson has a very low level of risk of sustaining a head injury. Not only is the instructor in control, but he is also very aware of the enviroment. The beginning skier will assume their risk is the same as the instructor's, and while that is low, it is not the same. So even if the instructor deosn't need to wear a helmet in that instance, should he by example make that choice for the student ?

Trencher

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:13:53 GMT

you look a total tit in a full face

I take it no one informed him? :lol:

So even if the instructor deosn't need to wear a helmet in that instance, should he by example make that choice for the student ?

You can only suggest someone takes your advice, some people you just can't tell. If they are not children then it has to be an individual choice and they can only choose whether or not to act on your advice.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:30:47 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

RoseR wrote:Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Any sport we play there is an element of risk, none more than jogging I have seen many joggers take a tumble as I have tennis & squash players but I do not see them wearing helmets, when these accidents happen it just brings it home to us that there is element of risk in our sport .
I may in the future wear a helmet but it will not be because of the recent publicity, but I do agree that all kids should wear helmets.

The stairs are actually one of the most dangerous parts of a home. Every year, thousands of people of all ages fall and injure themselves on the stairs. In fact, falls on the stairs are the most common reason for accidental death and hospitalization among those over sixty-five.

Maybe we should be wearing helmets going up and down stairs! :shock:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:19:08 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:

So even if the instructor deosn't need to wear a helmet in that instance, should he by example make that choice for the student ?

You can only suggest someone takes your advice, some people you just can't tell. If they are not children then it has to be an individual choice and they can only choose whether or not to act on your advice.

That's not what I meant. I was saying the instructor by setting an example and not wearing a helmet, leads the student to believe the student's risk is the same as the instructor's in a beginning class enviroment. I certainly would wear what the instructor thought appropriate for himself.

Trencher

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:35:10 GMT

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

RoseR wrote:Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Any sport we play there is an element of risk, none more than jogging I have seen many joggers take a tumble as I have tennis & squash players but I do not see them wearing helmets, when these accidents happen it just brings it home to us that there is element of risk in our sport .
I may in the future wear a helmet but it will not be because of the recent publicity, but I do agree that all kids should wear helmets.

The stairs are actually one of the most dangerous parts of a home. Every year, thousands of people of all ages fall and injure themselves on the stairs. In fact, falls on the stairs are the most common reason for accidental death and hospitalization among those over sixty-five.

Maybe we should be wearing helmets going up and down stairs! :shock:

Maybe we should but I'm not 65 ........Yet

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:37:59 GMT

we had hired helmets before we went away to take with us. hubby and 2 kids were in ski school (hubby in separate school). hubby set off on day one wearing a helmet but by day 2 he refused to wear one, falling under at peer pressure because "no one else is wearing one"! and he said he looked like an idiot on the beginner slopes being the only one in a group with a helmet on. I was a bit miffed but he said if he was skiing with the kids he would wear it (as he wanted to lead by example).

I dont know if he would have thought differently if a, this terrible tragedy/freak accident had happened before we went away and b, if the teacher had of been wearing a helmet.

can you imagine if anything had of happened to him while he was on the nursery slopes like it did to Natasha and he actually had a bloody helmet sitting in the apartment! part of me is annoyed that he didnt wear the helmet but as he likes to keep reminding me he is a 40 year old grown man and he'll do what he bloody well likes! lol thats me told haha, well for now anyway, but next holiday I am superglueing helmets to all heads!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:41:29 GMT

karen72 wrote:we had hired helmets before we went away to take with us. hubby and 2 kids were in ski school (hubby in separate school). hubby set off on day one wearing a helmet but by day 2 he refused to wear one, falling under at peer pressure because "no one else is wearing one"! and he said he looked like an idiot on the beginner slopes being the only one in a group with a helmet on. I was a bit miffed but he said if he was skiing with the kids he would wear it (as he wanted to lead by example).

I dont know if he would have thought differently if a, this terrible tragedy/freak accident had happened before we went away and b, if the teacher had of been wearing a helmet.

can you imagine if anything had of happened to him while he was on the nursery slopes like it did to Natasha and he actually had a bloody helmet sitting in the apartment! part of me is annoyed that he didnt wear the helmet but as he likes to keep reminding me he is a 40 year old grown man and he'll do what he bloody well likes! lol thats me told haha, well for now anyway, but next holiday I am superglueing helmets to all heads!

You have to wear one because you see the sense in wearing one , its all up to the individual, it must be time for bed now :cry:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:44:32 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

RoseR wrote:Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Any sport we play there is an element of risk, none more than jogging I have seen many joggers take a tumble as I have tennis & squash players but I do not see them wearing helmets, when these accidents happen it just brings it home to us that there is element of risk in our sport .
I may in the future wear a helmet but it will not be because of the recent publicity, but I do agree that all kids should wear helmets.

The stairs are actually one of the most dangerous parts of a home. Every year, thousands of people of all ages fall and injure themselves on the stairs. In fact, falls on the stairs are the most common reason for accidental death and hospitalization among those over sixty-five.

Maybe we should be wearing helmets going up and down stairs! :shock:

Maybe we should but I'm not 65 ........Yet

I'm not either, but I'm thinking of wearing one when going up and down stairs at home and at school, I'm also going to wear it when going to the pub, alcohol consumption increases the risks of falling over significantly. Might even wear it to bed in case I fall out in the night...I did do that once before don't want to take the risk again! :mrgreen:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:44:35 GMT

Were you not meant to be at an xmas party? It is not even tomorrow yet!

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:48:55 GMT

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

RoseR wrote:Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Any sport we play there is an element of risk, none more than jogging I have seen many joggers take a tumble as I have tennis & squash players but I do not see them wearing helmets, when these accidents happen it just brings it home to us that there is element of risk in our sport .
I may in the future wear a helmet but it will not be because of the recent publicity, but I do agree that all kids should wear helmets.

The stairs are actually one of the most dangerous parts of a home. Every year, thousands of people of all ages fall and injure themselves on the stairs. In fact, falls on the stairs are the most common reason for accidental death and hospitalization among those over sixty-five.

Maybe we should be wearing helmets going up and down stairs! :shock:

Maybe we should but I'm not 65 ........Yet

I'm not either, but I'm thinking of wearing one when going up and down stairs at home and at school, I'm also going to wear it when going to the pub, alcohol consumption increases the risks of falling over significantly. Might even wear it to bed in case I fall out in the night...I did do that once before don't want to take the risk again! :mrgreen:

Teach, do you evaluate every possible eventuality, Risk assessments the way forward, go to bed :shock: :shock:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:54:21 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

RoseR wrote:Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Any sport we play there is an element of risk, none more than jogging I have seen many joggers take a tumble as I have tennis & squash players but I do not see them wearing helmets, when these accidents happen it just brings it home to us that there is element of risk in our sport .
I may in the future wear a helmet but it will not be because of the recent publicity, but I do agree that all kids should wear helmets.

The stairs are actually one of the most dangerous parts of a home. Every year, thousands of people of all ages fall and injure themselves on the stairs. In fact, falls on the stairs are the most common reason for accidental death and hospitalization among those over sixty-five.

Maybe we should be wearing helmets going up and down stairs! :shock:

Maybe we should but I'm not 65 ........Yet

I'm not either, but I'm thinking of wearing one when going up and down stairs at home and at school, I'm also going to wear it when going to the pub, alcohol consumption increases the risks of falling over significantly. Might even wear it to bed in case I fall out in the night...I did do that once before don't want to take the risk again! :mrgreen:

Teach, do you evaluate every possible eventuality, Risk assessments the way forward, go to bed :shock: :shock:

I can't...I haven't got a helmet! :lol:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 07:47:02 GMT

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

snowb4ndit wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

RoseR wrote:Yes I think helmets should be worn by choice. I, like Pablo most of the time but there are still times I dont. I hardly ever wear one Xcountry skiing, dont know why I suppose I think that not so much speed involved, nor so many people about.

Any sport we play there is an element of risk, none more than jogging I have seen many joggers take a tumble as I have tennis & squash players but I do not see them wearing helmets, when these accidents happen it just brings it home to us that there is element of risk in our sport .
I may in the future wear a helmet but it will not be because of the recent publicity, but I do agree that all kids should wear helmets.

The stairs are actually one of the most dangerous parts of a home. Every year, thousands of people of all ages fall and injure themselves on the stairs. In fact, falls on the stairs are the most common reason for accidental death and hospitalization among those over sixty-five.

Maybe we should be wearing helmets going up and down stairs! :shock:

Maybe we should but I'm not 65 ........Yet

I'm not either, but I'm thinking of wearing one when going up and down stairs at home and at school, I'm also going to wear it when going to the pub, alcohol consumption increases the risks of falling over significantly. Might even wear it to bed in case I fall out in the night...I did do that once before don't want to take the risk again! :mrgreen:

Teach, do you evaluate every possible eventuality, Risk assessments the way forward, go to bed :shock: :shock:

I can't...I haven't got a helmet! :lol:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:22:09 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:

you look a total tit in a full face

I take it no one informed him? :lol:

actually steps were taken I believe :D

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:22:56 GMT

The last fall I had down the stairs a helmet would not have saved my injury.............I broke my big toe :lol:

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:24:13 GMT

RoseR wrote:The last fall I had down the stairs a helmet would not have saved my injury.............I broke my big toe :lol:

How many injuries have you sustained skiing/boarding Rose?

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:27:06 GMT

snowb4ndit wrote:

RoseR wrote:The last fall I had down the stairs a helmet would not have saved my injury.............I broke my big toe :lol:

How many injuries have you sustained skiing/boarding Rose?

Actually none at all. All my breaks have come from surfing, falling down the stairs, 3 car accidents and dropping a frozen chicken on my foot. Had a few falls whilst skiing but nothing major.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:33:48 GMT

RoseR wrote:

snowb4ndit wrote:

RoseR wrote:The last fall I had down the stairs a helmet would not have saved my injury.............I broke my big toe :lol:

How many injuries have you sustained skiing/boarding Rose?

Actually none at all. All my breaks have come from surfing, falling down the stairs, 3 car accidents and dropping a frozen chicken on my foot. Had a few falls whilst skiing but nothing major.

I've never injured myself falling down the stairs but have had a few tumbles. I think I have probably fallen down the stairs more times than falling when skiing.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:37:29 GMT

I have to be careful of the stairs in our new house. They are polished wood, open plan, so very slippy in socks or tights, must always remember to have something on my feet.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:45:13 GMT

RoseR wrote:I have to be careful of the stairs in our new house. They are polished wood, open plan, so very slippy in socks or tights, must always remember to have something on my feet.

I've got a cat that sleeps across the stairs and doesn't move when someones coming. I have to be careful not to trip over him, especially in the middle of the night.

Re:Natasha Richardson

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:53:24 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:Were you not meant to be at an xmas party? It is not even tomorrow yet!

Only stayed for a couple of hours, do the PR thing then depart, I would not stay for the whole duration, let the guys let their hair down and have a good time,without me looking over what they are doing :shock: