Latest posts for the topic "Skiing Etiquette"

Skiing Etiquette

Fri, 13 Mar 2009 23:43:40 GMT

Earlier this week in Soll, I was shocked at the behaviour of a few people. We were making our way back to the resort late in the afternoon when we came upon a woman alone on the hill, clearly hurt. We stopped to check with her and she told us her friends (plural) had gone down to call for help but she was worried that somebody would come over the ridge and crash into her. We put her poles up the hill as a warning sign and waited with her for about 15 minutes until a piste basher came to rescue her. Meanwhile, we could see her "friends" at the next lift about 200m below us.

What I found extraordinary was that they were experienced skiers and that not one of them thought to stay with her. Even if they were all below her when she fell, they could easily have taken the lift back up ans skied down to her within a few minutes.

It made me think about skiing etiquette and about how we behave towards others on the mountain. THe above case is, in my view, an extreme example of people failing to take care of a friend :evil: . Other less serious examples would be people who lead off down runs without waiting to see if every member of their group is comfortable taking it on, people not checking regularly to make everybody is keeping up/has not fallen, etc. I'm sure lots of you have your pet hates. On the positive side, it is the usual friendly acts of helping people who are lost or have strayed onto a run that is above them, sharing information on favourite runs or powder stashes, etc.

Perhaps Pavel should compile one of his famous lists of good behaviours and helpm us all reflect on how we behave towards others on the mountain?

Any thoughts?

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:49:12 GMT

Outside of my sis causing an accident and leaving me stranded on piste. I have seen a lot of messy stuff at work. I don't understand why people don't help out other folks that are clearly in need. :cry: In February I had a "Head Vs. Snow Cannon". It was awful I was riding up to my lift shack and saw it but for at least 2 minutes no one did anything.

I jut mind my own business and enjoy it, but if I see something go down or drop stuff I'm not going to be rude and not help. It doesn't take much effort to pick up poles, snap off bindings or make a call.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:28:31 GMT

Every time I go skiing it never fails to amaze the lack of etiquette people show on the slopes perhaps it is something that should be taught as part of ski school :cry:

Piste-Rules

The FIS piste rules at a glance. For greater safety and greater winter sports pleasure.

Consideration for others
Skiers and snowboarders must constantly behave in a manner, which can neither endanger or injure others.

Control of speed and style
Skiers and snowboarders must adjust their speed and style to their abilities, the terrain and the weather conditions.

Choice of line
Skiers and snowboarders coming from behind must select a line, which does not endanger those in front.

Overtaking
Overtaking is allowed from above or below and from right or left, but must always be at a distance which allows full freedom of movement to the person being overtaken.

Obligations of the lower or traversing skier or snowboarder
Those skiers or snowboarders wishing to enter the run, or cross the piste, must ensure that this is possible without endangering themselves or others, by checking both above and below. The same applies after every stop.

Stopping on the slopes
Skiers and snowboarders must avoid non-emergency stops at narrow or blind spots on a run. Fallers must clear such spots as quickly as possible.

Ascents
Ascending skiers and snowboarders must keep to the edge of the run and leave in bad visibility. The same applies to those ascending on foot.

Observing the signs
Skiers and snowboarders must observe the markings and signs on the slopes.

Behaviour in the case of accidents
All skiers and snowboarders are obliged to help in the case of an accident.

Obligatory identification in the case of accidents/Accident reporting
All persons, whether witnesses or those involved, whether responsible or not, must identify themselves in the case of an accident.

When reporting an accident, prepare answers to the following questions:

Who is reporting the accident?
Where did the accident happen and from where is it being reported?
What has happened and when? Short description, number of persons injured, type of injury
Can a helicopter land and where?
What is the weather like in the accident area ? Bright or cloudy, cloud height, wind direction and strength, visibility in metres, snow type, ...
" www.fis-ski.com

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:12:56 GMT

I have been helped a few times by very kind strangers, on the piste.

My first morning in Obergurgl, going down a narrow blue run, I unexpectedly found myself with my chin in the snow, face down, and I was quite dazed with the shock of it and totally unable to get up. My elder daughter had skied on ahead, and she didn't know I'd fallen over. But an Austrian samaritan came along and handed my the end of his ski pole and pulled me up, and he didn't laugh at me, and he even waited to make sure I could continue ski-ing. It was quite a crash - my chin was bleeding. And I don't know how it happened except that it was the year when there was hardly any snow anywhere and even Obergurgl was icy.

And, my first morning in Val Thorens last year, I fell on a green run, in a lesson, because one of my skis went into deep powder and came off. And my instructor didn't wait, even though he knew I'd fallen, but another instructor came up from behind me and helped me to find my lost ski and get it on.

So, actually, all in all, I have found other skiers to be very polite and helpful. I have been accidentally hit by skiers out of control, which is very frightening when it happens, but it's usually because the piste is too crowded.

What I don't get about the rules of the road/piste, is how you overtake slow skiers on a very narrow blue run. I usually tell them, in English and French, that I wish to overtake and on which side, so that they don't suddently swerve into me. But I know you're not really supposed to do this. And, something else I've noticed lately, is that people indicate with their sticks if they're going to swerve to the right or the left - the instructors do this particularly.

Thanks for bringing up the subject,

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:42:06 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:Every time I go skiing it never fails to amaze the lack of etiquette people show on the slopes perhaps it is something that should be taught as part of ski school :cry:

They do, one of the problems is that the slopes are full of people who've had one week of lessons and decided they've nothing left to learn and now think themselves intermediates as they can get enough speed up to really hurt someone.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:52:37 GMT

There's no excuse really; the skier's code is often included on piste maps and many resorts have posters reminding people of their responsibilities.

My insurance explicitly states that cover is subject to my abiding by the "Ski Federation Code".

Would be interesting to see how that panned out if you were involved in an accident that was later deemed to have been your fault (thought you were covered for that helicopter rescue and being sued by your victims family? Think again... ouch).

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:55:09 GMT

In Les Arcs my eldest lost control and so mr a and my youngest followed him down to sort him out. Unfortunately, this is when I had my accident and they were 100m or so ahead of me. It was a bad fall, I was sliding on my back, head first down the slope for what seemed like forever, trying to stop myself with my poles.

From the time of the fall to when I managed to get on my feet must've been about 5 mins and only one person stopped to ask if I was ok. Bearing in mind it was 30th December and, therefore, rather busy, I think it's quite disappointing.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:15:20 GMT

caron-a wrote:In Les Arcs my eldest lost control and so mr a and my youngest followed him down to sort him out. Unfortunately, this is when I had my accident and they were 100m or so ahead of me. It was a bad fall, I was sliding on my back, head first down the slope for what seemed like forever, trying to stop myself with my poles.

From the time of the fall to when I managed to get on my feet must've been about 5 mins and only one person stopped to ask if I was ok. Bearing in mind it was 30th December and, therefore, rather busy, I think it's quite disappointing.

I think Caron disappointing is an understatement, I think it more of a disgrace, but I do think it reflects society today unfortunately :cry: :cry:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:59:21 GMT

AllyG I guess it all has to do with your timing and whose around you. My first time at Tux when I wrecked it took 5 hours (it was a crap day). The second time I wrecked I think it took minutes.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:00:21 GMT

Caron,
That was pretty mean of everyone ski-ing past. Were you O.K. or had you hurt yourself? I always ask if I see someone fall over,even if they're not in my ski class.

In fact, I was ski-ing in a lesson and someone came down out of control from above, and whizzed right over the front of my skis, and crashed in a crumpled heap somewhere below me. And I still asked if they were O.K.

I've had 6 ski instructors in 3 holidays, and only one of them has told us anything about the right of way ski code, so maybe quite a few people don't know what it is, except that I have even seen it written on a piste map somewhere (in French unfortunately!).

I also think that, unofficially any way, very young children have right of way, especially if they're in a lesson. Imagine how awful it would be to flatten a 4 year old on their first ski holiday! I always try to keep right out of their way.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:03:46 GMT

IceGhost,
I just saw your message after I'd posted mine.

Do you think some resorts are worse than others, in this respect? Were you in the same place both times? And were you really left lying there for 5 hours - I thought the ski patrol people check the pistes?

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:12:59 GMT

AllyG wrote:I've had 6 ski instructors in 3 holidays, and only one of them has told us anything about the right of way ski code, so maybe quite a few people don't know what it is, except that I have even seen it written on a piste map somewhere (in French unfortunately!).

I also think that, unofficially any way, very young children have right of way, especially if they're in a lesson. Imagine how awful it would be to flatten a 4 year old on their first ski holiday! I always try to keep right out of their way.

If I am teaching I try to make folks aware of safety from the off (even without explicitly stating the 'code').

I have joked if you are going to hit someone make it someone bigger than you, not only will they cushion your fall they are not going to be hurt as much. 15 stone of Ian Wickham :wink: vs 4 stone of Young Child would not be a pretty out come.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:23:34 GMT

AllyG wrote:IceGhost,
I just saw your message after I'd posted mine.

Do you think some resorts are worse than others, in this respect? Were you in the same place both times? And were you really left lying there for 5 hours - I thought the ski patrol people check the pistes?

Ally

I believe it's all about timing, and luck

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:24:08 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:

AllyG wrote:I've had 6 ski instructors in 3 holidays, and only one of them has told us anything about the right of way ski code, so maybe quite a few people don't know what it is, except that I have even seen it written on a piste map somewhere (in French unfortunately!).

I also think that, unofficially any way, very young children have right of way, especially if they're in a lesson. Imagine how awful it would be to flatten a 4 year old on their first ski holiday! I always try to keep right out of their way.

If I am teaching I try to make folks aware of safety from the off (even without explicitly stating the 'code').

I have joked if you are going to hit someone make it someone bigger than you, not only will they cushion your fall they are not going to be hurt as much. 15 stone of Ian Wickham :wink: vs 4 stone of Young Child would not be a pretty out come.

After all those five course dinners in Switzerland, I think I am 15 stone 8) 8)

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:33:43 GMT

Hi Pablo,
I totally agree with you about the weight issue and finding a soft landing.

When my younger daughter was 9 years old and on her first ski holiday in Bulgaria, she went out of control on a blue run doing snow plough turns in a lesson, and I was there watching (because as I said elsewhere the teacher was really horrid and I followed the kids all week to make sure they were O.K.).

I was horrified because she was heading off the blue run at increasing speed in the directon of a very vertical-looking red run through the trees, but over to her right was a queue of people waiting for a drag lift. And I kept saying 'hit the queue, hit the queue' to myself, as a sort of mantra - she was well out of earshot - and fortunately she came to the same decision as me (my daughter is a very smart young lady) and headed as best she could (she wasn't totally out of control, she just couldn't stop) for the queue.

And fortunately there were several adults there who'd also been eating large dinners, like Ian Wickam, and they broke her fall, and she was O.K. Afterwards she told me none of them even told her off.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:57:59 GMT

Pablo Escobar wrote:

I have joked if you are going to hit someone make it someone bigger than you, not only will they cushion your fall they are not going to be hurt as much. 15 stone of Ian Wickham :wink: vs 4 stone of Young Child would not be a pretty out come.

Perhaps the woman that ran into me in Val Thorens Jan 2005 had been to one of your classes. She hit me hard enough to break my collarbone with me still standing. Once inertia took hold, I exited my skis in an upwards direction and was only vaguely conscious by the time I pancaked back on the slope.

That little bit of target practice took away 16 weeks of my life, and killed plenty of nerve endings in my shoulder.

As the bones knit into a different position, I will never look anything other than a freak in a swimming cozzy.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:06:05 GMT

bandit wrote:

Pablo Escobar wrote:

I have joked if you are going to hit someone make it someone bigger than you, not only will they cushion your fall they are not going to be hurt as much. 15 stone of Ian Wickham :wink: vs 4 stone of Young Child would not be a pretty out come.

Perhaps the woman that ran into me in Val Thorens Jan 2005 had been to one of your classes. She hit me hard enough to break my collarbone with me still standing. Once inertia took hold, I exited my skis in an upwards direction and was only vaguely conscious by the time I pancaked back on the slope.

That little bit of target practice took away 16 weeks of my life, and killed plenty of nerve endings in my shoulder.

As the bones knit into a different position, I will never look anything other than a freak in a swimming cozzy.

Should have been explicit, not to a class. Think about what that did to you, if that lady had hit a 4 year old child her target practise may have been a horrible fatality.

Sorry to hear about your shoulder/general incident.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:10:56 GMT

Is there anyone here who hasn't been hurt on a ski-ing holiday? It's beginning to read a bit like a hospital Accident and Emergency support group!

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:13:17 GMT

I haven't been hurt on a skiing holiday to the point where it has stopped me skiing-touch wood.

Edit: that's a lie.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:19:54 GMT

AllyG wrote:Is there anyone here who hasn't been hurt on a ski-ing holiday? It's beginning to read a bit like a hospital Accident and Emergency support group!

I haven't! Probably will on the next now I've said that. :roll:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:20:32 GMT

Well, I am very glad to hear it Pablo, although I'm not too sure I like the way you qualified it with 'to the point where it has stopped me ski-ing'.

I was ski-ing last holiday with someone with cracked ribs, and my instructor happily told me he'd skied several times with a sprained ankle, and my other instructor told me someone had crashed into her once and broken her wrist, but she still skied with it in plaster.

I am beginning to wonder if maybe I should switch to something less dangerous, like swimming with sharks, or sky-diving or something, especially if people are going to appear out of the blue and crash into me and carve me up, like poor Bandit.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:21:33 GMT

AllyG wrote:Well, I am very glad to hear it Pablo, although I'm not too sure I like the way you qualified it with 'to the point where it has stopped me ski-ing'.

I was ski-ing last holiday with someone with cracked ribs, and my instructor happily told me he'd skied several times with a sprained ankle, and my other instructor told me someone had crashed into her once and broken her wrist, but she still skied with it in plaster.

I am beginning to wonder if maybe I should switch to something less dangerous, like swimming with sharks, or sky-diving or something, especially if people are going to appear out of the blue and crash into me and carve me up, like poor Bandit.

Ally

I damaged my PCL in a pretty nasty over-shoot. Skied the rest of that day and another 3 days mostly because I wasn't completely aware something was up. Some pain-nothing major.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:22:59 GMT

Thanks Snowb4ndit,
Maybe I won't give up ski-ing just yet, then.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:25:15 GMT

Pablo,
What does 'damaged my PCL in a pretty nasty overshoot' mean?

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:32:48 GMT

PCL

I hit a kicker in the park, a fair sized one by my standards carrying far too much speed and landed almost completely flat (ie, not on the down slope at the other side)

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:37:53 GMT

AllyG wrote:Caron,
That was pretty mean of everyone ski-ing past. Were you O.K. or had you hurt yourself? I always ask if I see someone fall over,even if they're not in my ski class.

to make a long story short I damaged the mcl in my left knee and tore the acl in my right knee [I don't do anything by halves :mrgreen:] and I had acl replacement surgery. first day of the holiday too, 2008 was a write off :evil:

Still, I played my first game of tennis post injury today :D. Left knee is a tad sore but it was great!

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:51:34 GMT

I was annoyed in Niederau to see experienced skiers and boarders using the nursery slope as a race track. Admittedly there weren't loads of them, but it's not funny as a nervous beginner to have people charging past inches away, especially as there were real slopes that better suited their abilities.

Also, in the boot room beside O'Malleys (where Thaler customers are allowed to store their gear) some 'kind' person saw fit to remove my daughter's boots from the heated rack and chuck them in a corner so they could put their own boots on the heated rack. I would never interfere with another skier's gear. Spaces on the heated rack were limited but it was first come first served, and we were there first! They probably assumed because the boots were small-ish they belonged to a young person. I doubt they would have risked messing with a large pair that might belong to a 6ft muscle-man!

On a positive note, I have met many helpful people (and I do tend to fall a lot LOL!). I dropped one of my poles at the top of one of the button lifts and the man in the wee cabin rushed out and retrieved it for me.

Allie

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:18:48 GMT

caron-a Still, I played my first game of tennis post injury today :D. Left knee is a tad sore but it was great![/quote wrote:

Good for you! A couple of brufen and a glass of wine tonight and you'll be grand :D

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:20:30 GMT

Pablo,
Thanks, but I still don't really understand what happened to you! Did you mean you went over a large natural jump too fast and damaged the ligament in your knee? Maybe I should have told you I fractured my GT, rather than simplifying Greater Tuberosity of the humerus to shoulder. I'm not up to date with the modern lingo, as my children will agree.

Caron - your injuries sound horrendous, but I'm glad you're back to playing tennis now.

Allie - I sympathise with you about the boot room episode. A similar thing happened to us on the train back, with our luggage. I made space for ours, and we only had one suitcase each, and when I went back to check on it someone had moved mine out into the corridor (where you're not allowed to put luggage) and put theirs in the rack (so I had to re-organize all the luggage again to make room for mine again). I felt really upset with whoever it was who chucked my luggage out of the rack, much as you did I expect.
And I believe they are now introducing speed limits in some resorts, to stop people racing through areas like beginners pistes, which will be patrolled. I hope they take the perpetrators lift passes off them. I've seen fast skiers, myself, using beginners like markers for a slalom run.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:27:15 GMT

Instead of landing on the downslope like this skier has I landed after the 'downward sloping' landing when the piste started to flatten out. An experience I don't really want to repeat!

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:43:04 GMT

Thanks for the picture, Pablo.

I wouldn't like to be the guy underneath (he was really there was he?). I assume all those other people are just one person, with the photos taken with a very small time lag in between them all.

So, in other words, you jumped too far and landed in the wrong place, sort of like missing the air bag?

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:44:17 GMT

Yeh and it is just a sequence shot stitched together if that is the right 'terminology'.

Yeh, I missed the airbag :lol:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:53:05 GMT

pablo - start taking hrt lol and grow your own end of problemo

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:51:54 GMT

I must have been very fortunate because where ever I've been someone has stopped very quickly and helped me to retrieve poles, skis, sunglasses etc. - luckily I have only had small tumbles and not hurt myself, and more importantly have never taken anyone else out with me. (Well only my daughter (then 20!) once, and she just stood there watching me slide very slowly in to her!)

Perhaps ski schools should teach people how to fall over - I think sometimes people career out of control and causes damage to themselves and others as they are afraid of falling instead of committimg to a safe tumble early on in the process.

With more and more skiiers on the pistes dare I also suggest some form of test and licence system?!

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:34:03 GMT

shazzo wrote:
I must have been very fortunate because where ever I've been someone has stopped very quickly and helped me to retrieve poles, skis, sunglasses etc. - luckily I have only had small tumbles and not hurt myself, and more importantly have never taken anyone else out with me. (Well only my daughter (then 20!) once, and she just stood there watching me slide very slowly in to her!)

Perhaps ski schools should teach people how to fall over - I think sometimes people career out of control and causes damage to themselves and others as they are afraid of falling instead of committimg to a safe tumble early on in the process.

With more and more skiiers on the pistes dare I also suggest some form of test and licence system?!

They should definitely be held accountable, I just think people don't know, they go skiing once a year and thats that, I still think etiquette should be taught in ski school, although ise has said that it is, it wasn't when I was first taught.
I can give you examples in everyday life of a person fainting on the way to work and people just stepping over him not wanting to get involved, I guess people just don't care any more about their fellow man :cry: :cry:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:43:49 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:
They should definitely be held accountable, I just think people don't know, they go skiing once a year and thats that, I still think etiquette should be taught in ski school, although ise has said that it is, it wasn't when I was first taught.

How many weeks of lessons did you take?

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:59:50 GMT

ise wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:
They should definitely be held accountable, I just think people don't know, they go skiing once a year and thats that, I still think etiquette should be taught in ski school, although ise has said that it is, it wasn't when I was first taught.

How many weeks of lessons did you take?

I'm adding up, about six weeks if memory serves

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:44:15 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

ise wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:
They should definitely be held accountable, I just think people don't know, they go skiing once a year and thats that, I still think etiquette should be taught in ski school, although ise has said that it is, it wasn't when I was first taught.

How many weeks of lessons did you take?

I'm adding up, about six weeks if memory serves

that ought to have been enough time for it to come up :D

I'm just a bit conscious that some of the people who complain this should be covered in lessons only stuck it for a week which isn't long enough for this to be covered.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:52:34 GMT

ise wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

ise wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:
They should definitely be held accountable, I just think people don't know, they go skiing once a year and thats that, I still think etiquette should be taught in ski school, although ise has said that it is, it wasn't when I was first taught.

How many weeks of lessons did you take?

I'm adding up, about six weeks if memory serves

that ought to have been enough time for it to come up :D

I'm just a bit conscious that some of the people who complain this should be covered in lessons only stuck it for a week which isn't long enough for this to be covered.

I have had lessons on and off over a quite a long period of time, I guess the last week of lessons was 2001 Valmorel, an excellent instructor I might add, so I guess what I am trying to say is that they may have added Etiquette to the lessons since 2001.
They have not started covering it with the kids, I Emailed the older ones a copy of the FIS ski rules two years ago.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:36:21 GMT

I can't remember how I learned about "the rules", but presumably it was in lessons. To me though, a lot of it, is just common sense and common courtesy.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:40:44 GMT

Eljay wrote:I can't remember how I learned about "the rules", but presumably it was in lessons. To me though, a lot of it, is just common sense and common courtesy.

Your bang on Eljay, but it does sometimes seem to missing in society today :cry:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:43:41 GMT

I used to sail, so I suppose I naturally asked about who has right of way.

I don't think there's a port and starboard rule, though, if 2 skiers or boarders are heading straight for each other.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:45:31 GMT

Things would be pretty chaotic if you were out cruising and tried to wave at every passing skier too :lol:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:45:36 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

Eljay wrote:I can't remember how I learned about "the rules", but presumably it was in lessons. To me though, a lot of it, is just common sense and common courtesy.

Your bang on Eljay, but it does sometimes seem to missing in society today :cry:

Sadly, I have to agree with you. :(

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:17:18 GMT

Eljay wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

Eljay wrote:I can't remember how I learned about "the rules", but presumably it was in lessons. To me though, a lot of it, is just common sense and common courtesy.

Your bang on Eljay, but it does sometimes seem to missing in society today :cry:

Sadly, I have to agree with you. :(

Don't be sad just for agreeing with me :wink:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:04:06 GMT

in hopfgarten at xmas we were told straight away in our ski skoolclass. never stop in themiddle of the piste, always try and look up the slope to see if anyone else is coming down before you start and when getting off the lifts always move well over to the side if you arent moving straight off, and if you have stop half way down the piste make sure you stop well out of the way,

N our instructor never mentioned it once, but i just did it anyway as you say its plain simple manners

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:28:23 GMT

amanda n wrote:in hopfgarten at xmas we were told straight away in our ski skoolclass. never stop in themiddle of the piste, always try and look up the slope to see if anyone else is coming down before you start and when getting off the lifts always move well over to the side if you arent moving straight off, and if you have stop half way down the piste make sure you stop well out of the way,

N our instructor never mentioned it once, but i just did it anyway as you say its plain simple manners

Too damned right. I really hate people who stop randomly right in the middle of the piste, and often ski right past them and shout "NEIN" as I do. They didnt seem to respond in France to that one.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:33:36 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

amanda n wrote:in hopfgarten at xmas we were told straight away in our ski skoolclass. never stop in themiddle of the piste, always try and look up the slope to see if anyone else is coming down before you start and when getting off the lifts always move well over to the side if you arent moving straight off, and if you have stop half way down the piste make sure you stop well out of the way,

N our instructor never mentioned it once, but i just did it anyway as you say its plain simple manners

Too damned right. I really hate people who stop randomly right in the middle of the piste, and often ski right past them and shout "NEIN" as I do. They didnt seem to respond in France to that one.

Maybe try Neuf :shock:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:37:10 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

Tony_H wrote:

amanda n wrote:in hopfgarten at xmas we were told straight away in our ski skoolclass. never stop in themiddle of the piste, always try and look up the slope to see if anyone else is coming down before you start and when getting off the lifts always move well over to the side if you arent moving straight off, and if you have stop half way down the piste make sure you stop well out of the way,

N our instructor never mentioned it once, but i just did it anyway as you say its plain simple manners

Too damned right. I really hate people who stop randomly right in the middle of the piste, and often ski right past them and shout "NEIN" as I do. They didnt seem to respond in France to that one.

Maybe try Neuf :shock:

*** giggle ***

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:55:03 GMT

The basic rules are simple one liners. They don't take more than a few minutes to review and should be part of first lessons. By not emphasising them at the very beginning, they are diminished in importance.

The resorts also share some blame for people's ignorance. They manage to put advertising all over the place, in cable cars and gondolers and on lift towers, etc, so they could also give equal prominence to safety information. By not emphasising the importance of a few simple safety rules, the resorts also diminish the importance of safe skiing practices.

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:02:41 GMT

we were stood in line waiting to get on a gondola in Les Arcs, when an elderly couple almost knocked me over to try to get on before we did. I was not my usual tactful self and made it quite clear...........despite the language barrier that that was not acceptable behaviour. So it's not always the young 'uns at fault :shock:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:04:53 GMT

:shock:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:06:10 GMT

No. The bloke who barged past 5 rows of people in Serre Che and stamped all over my new skis with his rentals was about 50, and not only did he get short shrift from me, he got a pole in his back from Mrs H. And, shock of shocks, he was French. And didnt give a damn.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:07:14 GMT

Tony_H wrote:No. The bloke who barged past 5 rows of people in Serre Che and stamped all over my new skis with his rentals was about 50, and not only did he get short shrift from me, he got a pole in his back from Mrs H. And, shock of shocks, he was French. And didnt give a damn.

did he do it twice :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:08:17 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

Maybe try Neuf :shock:

ou deux maux ne font pas un droit

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:11:15 GMT

Tony_H wrote:No. The bloke who barged past 5 rows of people in Serre Che and stamped all over my new skis with his rentals was about 50, and not only did he get short shrift from me, he got a pole in his back from Mrs H. And, shock of shocks, he was French. And didnt give a damn.

spelling 10/10 :thumbup:

I must say that there is good and bad everywhere, it is well documented about my Austrian summer holiday and in LGb it always seems civilised, yes you get the odd kid that will tread on your skis but even in other french resorts everybody is quite polite. Thats what I have found :shock:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:55:41 GMT

Lots of negative comments about behaviour of the French but they've always been quite polite in La Plagne.....compared to Bardonecchia anyway. I was knocked over several times last week on beginners slopes learning to board, by people skiing over my snowboard or into me.

I think there is a real lack of understanding as well - people ovetaking constantly on the narrow blue road runs which are particularly tricky for learners of both disciplines leaving no room to put turns in to control speed :evil:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:20:01 GMT

KevinC wrote:I think there is a real lack of understanding as well - people ovetaking constantly on the narrow blue road runs which are particularly tricky for learners of both disciplines leaving no room to put turns in to control speed :evil:

It does seem so. There's no particular reason that not being able to control your speed gives you right of way, you wouldn't tolerate on the road or even on a pavement so there's no reason to tolerate it on ski slope. If you can't control your speed without taking the whole slope or track to do so then it's not the problem of the poor guy behind you who can. Skiers have no excuse at all, there's a perfectly good technique in the snow plough to control speed without taking the whole slope, it's more difficult for snowboarders but it's still a basic technique they need to master.

It's just like being on the road, there's no good reason the rest of us should drive at 20 mph on the slightest gradient merely because the guy in front has decided to buy a caravan :D

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:27:42 GMT

Kevin,
I don't like those really narrow blue 'roads' either, and they tend to get quite icy.

Sometimes the red runs lead into these, and the good skiers can't help ski-ing down them, and it can be very difficult safely overtaking wobbly, erratic, learners. If your teacher has whizzed past them, you have no option but to overtake, or hold up the whole lesson. I usually say, in French and English, that I wish to overtake and which side, and then I go past, but I'm always a bit worried that the learners are going to suddenly swerve into me. I used to go down them in a snow plough, and keep to the side so that other people could overtake, but I suppose if you're boarding you don't have that option (I don't know anything about boarding).

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:01:00 GMT

ise wrote:

KevinC wrote:I think there is a real lack of understanding as well - people ovetaking constantly on the narrow blue road runs which are particularly tricky for learners of both disciplines leaving no room to put turns in to control speed :evil:

It does seem so. There's no particular reason that not being able to control your speed gives you right of way, you wouldn't tolerate on the road or even on a pavement so there's no reason to tolerate it on ski slope. If you can't control your speed without taking the whole slope or track to do so then it's not the problem of the poor guy behind you who can. Skiers have no excuse at all, there's a perfectly good technique in the snow plough to control speed without taking the whole slope, it's more difficult for snowboarders but it's still a basic technique they need to master.

It's just like being on the road, there's no good reason the rest of us should drive at 20 mph on the slightest gradient merely because the guy in front has decided to buy a caravan :D

That, ise, is absolutely spot on. If a learner is on a tricky blue narrow run, maybe he should get off it very quickly or think twice about going on it, or at the very least keep to one side.

Has anyone else picked up on this pole tapping technique to warn people in front you are coming up faster from behind?

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:11:51 GMT

Pole tapping method?

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:13:43 GMT

The things that annoy me the most are boarders walking up the middle of the slope then sitting down in the middle of the slope to have a chat and a smoke before putting their boards on. This can be group of up to ten and a number of groups that you have to avoid on your way down, surely it is not to difficult if you want to walk up the slope to walk up the edge then sit and put your boards on at the edge also. I do not want to get into a skiers / boarders thing but I am sorry this always tends be boarders rather than skiers, possibly because the slope I am talking about has a button lift and the new boarders find it tricky to use.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:16:12 GMT

tap your poles together s they hear you.

The trouble is it makes some people react with an attack of self righteousness and/or veer around erratically. Personally I'd have thought it was a courtesy to alert someone you were behind them but then a) it doesn't really happen to me and b) I'd know already.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:18:47 GMT

:lol: If I heard someone tapping their poles behind me I would immediately look behind me with the result of going face down in the snow and causing even more of a problem, us beginners need to concentrate very hard in what is front us :lol:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:37:31 GMT

Gaz,
Would the same apply to me (a strange voice from behind) very politely saying that I wished to overtake you on the right/left?

Naturally I don't want to frighten beginners into falling over, but I do have to get past somehow!

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:48:28 GMT

i think that is a better idea, to be honest. I ski on a piste called the red road at poiana, it is a long narrow blue, if I hear someone coming behind me I just try and hold my line so they can safely overtake me and there is no problem, the only difficulty is when the wind is up and I can't hear someone behind. But, the more advanced skiers need to take some responsibility on this as well, don't pass a slow learner on both sides at once if you are in a group, all pass on one side so the poor learner knows which way to go if the path turns of narrows. Remember, the blues are actually there for the learners to learn on so don't be surprised if you go on a blue slope you find some people who are bit nervous and a bit slow, especially if they don't know the piste and are not sure where the turns are

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:22:23 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

Has anyone else picked up on this pole tapping technique to warn people in front you are coming up faster from behind?

Been hearing a lot of that behind you Tony ? :lol:

I don't think you can ever complain about people being difficult to overtake by going too slow or making wide turns in front of you. Not much you can do about it, just relax. The responsibility is your's as the uphill skier, to deal safely with it. Far better they are going too slow, than faster than they are able to control. It's why we all try to avoid the crowds. Sometimes if you want to go fast, you just have to wait a few moments for the run to clear enough to be safe for you to ski the way you want to.

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:32:04 GMT

Trencher wrote: The responsibility is your's as the uphill skier, to deal safely with it.

As the FIS code makes perfectly clear the primary responsibiltiy of all slopes uses is "RESPECT FOR OTHERS - You must behave in such a way that you do not endanger others". The obligation of the overtaking skier to take some care doesn't override that.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:44:57 GMT

ise wrote:

Trencher wrote: The responsibility is your's as the uphill skier, to deal safely with it.

As the FIS code makes perfectly clear the primary responsibiltiy of all slopes uses is "RESPECT FOR OTHERS - You must behave in such a way that you do not endanger others". The obligation of the overtaking skier to take some care doesn't override that.

The same basic rules apply on the road. Good luck telling the cop that the person you've just run into the back of , wasn't RESPECTING you.

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:49:44 GMT

Trencher wrote:

The same basic rules apply on the road. Good luck telling the cop that the person you've just run into the back of , wasn't RESPECTING you.

Trencher

They do indeed, like showing other road users some respect or trying to avoid having an accident or driving with due care and attention. Or realising this is a multi lane highway and if you pull into the next lane into the path of the vehicle behind it will actually be your fault.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:51:21 GMT

gaz jones wrote:The things that annoy me the most are boarders walking up the middle of the slope then sitting down in the middle of the slope to have a chat and a smoke before putting their boards on. This can be group of up to ten and a number of groups that you have to avoid on your way down, surely it is not to difficult if you want to walk up the slope to walk up the edge then sit and put your boards on at the edge also. I do not want to get into a skiers / boarders thing but I am sorry this always tends be boarders rather than skiers, possibly because the slope I am talking about has a button lift and the new boarders find it tricky to use.

Let me tell you, experienced boarders hate button lifts too!
If you see boarders sitting in the middle of the piste, perform a sharp turn flicking snow onto them as you pass. Everyone does it, they hate it )

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:53:10 GMT

gaz jones wrote:Remember, the blues are actually there for the learners to learn on

Interesting.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:54:10 GMT

Tony_H wrote:
Let me tell you, experienced boarders hate button lifts too!

I've never found them a problem, I've always thought you're either able to balance on the board or you can't. I've found faster drags easier than slow ones though.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:55:15 GMT

Trencher wrote:

Tony_H wrote:

Has anyone else picked up on this pole tapping technique to warn people in front you are coming up faster from behind?

Been hearing a lot of that behind you Tony ? :lol:

Nope, its something I have adopted having come across it myself, and generally people know what it means. Well, they seem to in certain resorts anyway.... 8)

I do agree with Gaz's statement about respect, especially for lesser experienced skiers, and I would have to see someone being passed on both sides at the same time.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:56:13 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

gaz jones wrote:Remember, the blues are actually there for the learners to learn on

Interesting.

I missed that :lol:

What utter nonsense. Pistes are provided for all of us.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:58:03 GMT

ise wrote:

Tony_H wrote:
Let me tell you, experienced boarders hate button lifts too!

I've never found them a problem for me, I've always thought you're either able to balance on the board or you can't. I've found faster drags easier than slow ones though.

Personally, I havent a problem with drags, but I havent been up one on a board.....although obviously i prefer a faster chair. Some of the drags in Serre Che were quite long and particularly vicious at the start, and many of the boarders I travelled with refused to use them, and they were a mix of experience.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:02:53 GMT

Tony_H wrote:Personally, I havent a problem with drags, but I havent been up one on a board.....although obviously i prefer a faster chair. Some of the drags in Serre Che were quite long and particularly vicious at the start, and many of the boarders I travelled with refused to use them, and they were a mix of experience.

It'll be a sad day if we lose all the drag lifts, in bad weather and wind they're a lot more pleasant to travel on and can operate when chairs can't.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:06:20 GMT

ise wrote:

Trencher wrote:

The same basic rules apply on the road. Good luck telling the cop that the person you've just run into the back of , wasn't RESPECTING you.

Trencher

They do indeed, like showing other road users some respect or trying to avoid having an accident or driving with due care and attention. Or realising this is a multi lane highway and if you pull into the next lane into the path of the vehicle behind it will actually be your fault.

There's always an exception to a general rule. Doesn't change the reality that if you run into someone who was below you on a run or track, the responsibility will likely be yours.

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:07:09 GMT

ise wrote:

Tony_H wrote:Personally, I havent a problem with drags, but I havent been up one on a board.....although obviously i prefer a faster chair. Some of the drags in Serre Che were quite long and particularly vicious at the start, and many of the boarders I travelled with refused to use them, and they were a mix of experience.

It'll be a sad day if we lose all the drag lifts, in bad weather and wind they're a lot more pleasant to travel on and can operate when chairs can't.

Yes, I have to say I did find that on a windy day recently, the only way to make it across to the next mountain was to take a little used drag as the chairs were closed at the higher more exposed places. There was quite a queue there, it took about 15 minutes to get on, but then people were behaving very civilised and standing one behind the other right back onto the piste leading to the lift. I was most surprised!
The drag was the only link across, and therefore those that had bothered to go up the mountain that day either stayed locally or sourced this drag to get around. I just stumbled across it in trying to find a way across, but many locals seemed to know of its existence and usefulness!

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:09:34 GMT

ise wrote:

Tony_H wrote:

gaz jones wrote:Remember, the blues are actually there for the learners to learn on

Interesting.

I missed that :lol:

What utter nonsense. Pistes are provided for all of us.

Where does it say exclusively for learners ?

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:12:55 GMT

Trencher wrote:
There's always an exception to a general rule. Doesn't change the reality that if you run into someone who was below you on a run or track, the responsibility will likely be yours.

Trencher

that's alright then, if it won't be your fault then it's perfectly ok to throw yourself into the path of another skier, if no one can make me be careful then it'll be just fine not to bother :lol:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:17:05 GMT

ise wrote:

Trencher wrote:
There's always an exception to a general rule. Doesn't change the reality that if you run into someone who was below you on a run or track, the responsibility will likely be yours.

Trencher

that's alright then, if it won't be your fault then it's perfectly ok to throw yourself into the path of another skier, if no one can make me be careful then it'll be just fine not to bother :lol:

Do you think people really do that :roll:

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:23:50 GMT

My point about blue slopes is simple, where are you more likely to find inexperienced skiers, on a blue or a black slope. If you go on a blue slope don't expect everyone on that slope to be an expert, some people on that slope will be on their first ski holiday, will be nervous and not know the slope. By the very nature of the grading system green and blue slopes are more likely to be full of beginners and you need to be aware of that, maybe i did'nt make my point clear they are not solely for beginners but by there very nature are the only ones that the beginners can ski on. Would you rather the beginners went down the reds and blacks on their asses very slowly and blocked up those slopes, I am sure all the "experts" would soon start moaning if that happened.
It is just all about respect, for people of all levels and abilities, I respect the better skiers by not veering across the slope, or stopping abruptly in front of them i.e falling, and they can respect me by not passing on both sides, spraying me with snow or cutting in front of me at high speed.
Then everyone can enjoy themselves
On button lifts, I have seen so many boarders fall off these it is unbelievable, as a skier I don't mind them but the boarders seem to have terrible problems with them.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:30:59 GMT

Trencher wrote:

ise wrote:

Trencher wrote:
There's always an exception to a general rule. Doesn't change the reality that if you run into someone who was below you on a run or track, the responsibility will likely be yours.

Trencher

that's alright then, if it won't be your fault then it's perfectly ok to throw yourself into the path of another skier, if no one can make me be careful then it'll be just fine not to bother :lol:

Do you think people really do that :roll:

Trencher

I think, and FIS agree, that everyone has a primary responsibility to respect other slope users and that responsibility is entirely independent of if you're up or down the slope.

I think you've no real point and are just being argumentative.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:48:12 GMT

ise wrote:

I think you've no real point and are just being argumentative.

and I think you have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you. You called someone else's post utter nonsense after you read it the wrong way and didn't think to apologise. Your pompous remarks are very sad because you obviously have a lot to contribute to the community, but don't know how to do it and still be respectful to others.

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:54:25 GMT

I think what you really need is some general etiquette :roll:

and fyi here's what I didn't misread :

Remember, the blues are actually there for the learners to learn on so don't be surprised if you go on a blue slope you find some people who are bit nervous and a bit slow, especially if they don't know the piste and are not sure where the turns are

you just decided it meant something else to start an argument :roll:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:13:54 GMT

AllyG wrote:Kevin,
I don't like those really narrow blue 'roads' either, and they tend to get quite icy.

Sometimes the red runs lead into these, and the good skiers can't help ski-ing down them, and it can be very difficult safely overtaking wobbly, erratic, learners. If your teacher has whizzed past them, you have no option but to overtake, or hold up the whole lesson. I usually say, in French and English, that I wish to overtake and which side, and then I go past, but I'm always a bit worried that the learners are going to suddenly swerve into me. I used to go down them in a snow plough, and keep to the side so that other people could overtake, but I suppose if you're boarding you don't have that option (I don't know anything about boarding).

Ally

Ally if someone whizzed past my kids on a particular narrow section just because they were skiing slower than them i would not be best pleased.
Experience should tell you that patience is a vertue and anything other than would probably end up with a pole being planted where the sun dont shine by MOI.

AJ Adele

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:21:10 GMT

AJ Adele

a welcome does of common sense, well done!

a thread that started about good manners and assisting others in need seems to have evolved in to a rant by some the experts about the less experienced having the temerity to be on their slopes and in their way! :roll:

Shazzo

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:25:37 GMT

AJ wrote:
Ally if someone whizzed past my kids on a particular narrow section just because they were skiing slower than them i would not be best pleased.
Experience should tell you that patience is a vertue and anything other than would probably end up with a pole being planted where the sun dont shine by MOI.

Is that really fair on everyone else? The FIS rules are just a good bit of common sense :

RESPECT FOR OTHERS - You must behave in such a way that you do not endanger others.

CONTROL OF SPEED AND SKIING - You must be in control, and adapt your speed and manner of skiing to your ability and the prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather, as well as to the density of other skiers.

CHOICE OF ROUTE - You must choose your route in such a way that, when coming from behind, you do not endanger others ahead.

OVERTAKING - Make sure that you leave enough room when overtaking others for any voluntary or involuntary movements that they may make.

ENTERING AND STARTING - When entering a marked run, or starting again after stopping, make sure that you look both up and down the run to ensure that you can do so without endangering yourself or other skiers.

STOPPING - Unless absolutely necessary, you must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted.

CLIMBING AND DESCENDING ON FOOT -When climbing or descending on foot, you must keep to the sides of the piste.

RESPECT FOR SIGNALS AND MARKINGS -You must respect all signals and markings.

ASSISTANCE - If an accident occurs, every skier is duty bound to assist.

IDENTIFICATION - Following an accident, every skier and witness, whether responsible or not for causing the accident, must exchange names and addresses.

If you're observing those, like choice of route and overtaking, there's no reason you shouldn't pass skiers in front of you. It's not unreasonable that the quicker skier having observed all of those rules should expect some reciprocal respect and courtesy from the slope user in front.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:44:40 GMT

remarkable, one star for quoting the FIS rules, someone needs to grow up :roll:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:50:11 GMT

AllyG wrote:

very difficult safely overtaking wobbly, erratic, learners. If your teacher has whizzed past them, you have no option I'm always a bit worried that the learners are going to suddenly swerve into me.

Ally

Ise i totally agree with the FIS rules but thats not what Ally implied.Where ever there is doubt the action or act should not take place.
He/she implied VERY DIFFICULT TO OVERTAKE, Then if its difficult dont do it wait as its probably not safe to do so.

IF YOUR TEACHER HAS WHIZZED PAST THEM THEN YOU HAVE NO OPTION. You always have the option, Is it safe or not.I would hope that the teacher would have made the right decision.

AJ Adele

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:56:27 GMT

This has got out of hand.
I think it went Pete Tong when Gaz said blues were for learners. He has come back and said he didnt mean they were ONLY for learners, but his original post did give the impression that experienced skiers should not be using blues. Hence why I said "Interesting". He has however had the decency to come back and correct his statement, and that should be the end of it. 2 people suggesting their Dad is bigger than the other persons is not the way to resolve it. I should know, I have all too often had these kind of spats on here in the past.

As for this business of passing someone on a narrow blue, I have to respect everyones opinions, but ultimately agree with what Ise says about adhering to the FIS rules and passing with caution. There is absolutely nothing wrong with passing someone inexperienced or going particularly slow on a narrow blue track, provided you have given them sufficient room and dont cause an accident if they suddenly stop or change direction. A good enough skier should be able to cope with either of those scenarios. People going slowly unfortunately can cause problems behind them, and need to accept that other people might want to get past, so there is nothing rude or wrong with passing someone, no matter how old on any kind of piste, provided of course there is no danger caused by doing so.

Thats quite often where I position my poles behind my back and tap them together, to alert the person in front I am coming past. Most people seem to understand it and appreciate it. I guess those that dont like being passed are the sort of people who drive at 55mph in the outside lane of a dual carriageway?

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:14:32 GMT

Hi AJ,
I am a very nervous, anxious skier myself, and incredibly safety conscious. I'm generally criticized for going too slowly - in fact I got chucked out of one of my ski classes and sent into the lower group for going too slowly.

I said the instructor whizzes past, not I whiz past. The instructors are generally fantastic skiers, and they can ski off the side of the piste, round those poles etc. to safely overtake the beginners on a narrow blue 'road'.

And then I am left stuck behind the beginner, afraid to overtake in case there is a collision. Which is why I have developed the technique of letting them know that I wish to overtake them. I ski behind them, and say 'Excusez-moi, je voudrais depasser a droight/gauche' and 'excuse me I would like to overtake on the right/left', and wait to make sure they have understood, before I overtake. If they don't seem to understand, or they're too wobbly and I decide it's not safe, then I stay stuck behind them until the narrow bit ends, and then when I catch up with the rest of my group I explain that I was stuck behind a beginner, and hope I don't get told off too badly for holding everyone up.

So I suppose you're right and I shouldn't have said I have 'no option', because clearly I do, and sometimes I do wait.

Anyway, you can be reassured that I've never caused a learner to fall over, whereas last year, in Mottaret, I was ski-ing on a blue run, with another member of my ski class beside me, and a total idiot skied in between both of us, hit both of us and made us both fall over, and then skied off without apologizing or stopping to see if we were O.K.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:53:16 GMT

Hi Ally,

Sometimes its hard to put into words and express an opinion on a forum without the meaning of what were trying to say getting lost in the text.
I wasnt having a dig at you in general, Just an opinion on what you said. Take the time to ski at your own pace and your confidence will grow and most of all have fun.So sorry if i sounded snotty it wasnt intentional.

AJ Adele

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:16:09 GMT

Hi AJ,
Thanks for the apology - as you said, sometimes things come out wrong when one types them on the internet.

I do go faster now on red runs, but only when I feel confident enough, and I still go slowly on black runs. I like to have enough time to enjoy the view of the mountains.

I hate those blue 'roads'. I wish they'd get rid of them all, or at least make a diversionary route around them, so that beginners and experienced skiers wouldn't all have to go down them. They get icy and overcrowded, and they're too hard really for the beginners. I suppose the only good thing about mixing the beginners and the experienced skiers, is that if a beginner falls over, there's usually an experienced skier around to help them up if they're stuck, or find their ski, or whatever.

Thanks again,

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:26:44 GMT

AllyG wrote:m. I ski behind them, and say 'Excusez-moi, je voudrais depasser a droight/gauche' and 'excuse me I would like to overtake on the right/left', and wait to make sure they have understood, before I overtake.

that's impressive :D I'd normally stick at droit/gauche/links/recht :D the only time I need to do this as a rule is on a long track out of a black or a road off an off-piste run so I don't wait around for them to see if they're wobbly or not.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:33:32 GMT

Ise,
I like to make some use of my French lessons - just done another hour and a half today. And something I have noticed about French people is that they're very fussy about manners (please and thank you and remembering to say 'vous' and not 'tu'), so I err on the cautious side. Plus, of course, I'm sure I'm ski-ing much slower than you, so I have more time.

Ally

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:04:26 GMT

What a can of worms this has opened! There have been some fair points made by both experienced and novice skiers but I'd like to clarify my comments about those 'blue roads'.

I was learning to board last week and having to come from the mountain that way as it was the only blue run to the village. I was capable of 'sliding' down and turning. I'm still a novice though and am entitled to a bit of space either side to turn so that I don't have to go straight down at full pelt - this is dangerous for everyone. Unfortunately in Bardonecchia one doesn't seem to be afforded that courtesy with people flying past on both sides simultaneously within a copule of inches.

I really don't think that's acceptable........but I await correction!

Edit - there was an alternative red run to the village!

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:18:24 GMT

KevinC wrote:
I really don't think that's acceptable........but I await correction!

I don't think so either :(

Trencher

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:36:06 GMT

KevinC wrote:

I really don't think that's acceptable........but I await correction!

Edit - there was an alternative red run to the village!

I agree Kevin. Did you consider taking the lift back down instead of taking the track off?

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:45:21 GMT

I agree Kevin. Did you consider taking the lift back down instead of taking the track off?

No - i went down the red run the next time as it was much safer for me to do that. I wasn't completely useless at boarding - just not capable of going straight down the first time I attempted it and didn't expect that sort of behaviour.

Although going back to a thread a few months ago I did take the chairlift down on the last day for the experience - although staying in the bar longer than expected due to the favourable weather conditions was also a factor. The lifts in Italy seem to be designed with the pedestrian in mind, but I'm still not sure it's a good idea due to the resulting queues caused by them slowing down every 20 seconds.

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:47:37 GMT

KevinC wrote:What a can of worms this has opened! There have been some fair points made by both experienced and novice skiers but I'd like to clarify my comments about those 'blue roads'.

I was learning to board last week and having to come from the mountain that way as it was the only blue run to the village. I was capable of 'sliding' down and turning. I'm still a novice though and am entitled to a bit of space either side to turn so that I don't have to go straight down at full pelt - this is dangerous for everyone. Unfortunately in Bardonecchia one doesn't seem to be afforded that courtesy with people flying past on both sides simultaneously within a copule of inches.

I really don't think that's acceptable........but I await correction!

Edit - there was an alternative red run to the village!

Kevin, it is great fun when you have opened a can of worms or lit the blue touch paper and then sit back and read the results, thats what the forum all about healthy debate :mrgreen:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:39:25 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

KevinC wrote:What a can of worms this has opened! There have been some fair points made by both experienced and novice skiers but I'd like to clarify my comments about those 'blue roads'.

I was learning to board last week and having to come from the mountain that way as it was the only blue run to the village. I was capable of 'sliding' down and turning. I'm still a novice though and am entitled to a bit of space either side to turn so that I don't have to go straight down at full pelt - this is dangerous for everyone. Unfortunately in Bardonecchia one doesn't seem to be afforded that courtesy with people flying past on both sides simultaneously within a copule of inches.

I really don't think that's acceptable........but I await correction!

Edit - there was an alternative red run to the village!

Kevin, it is great fun when you have opened a can of worms or lit the blue touch paper and then sit back and read the results, thats what the forum all about healthy debate :mrgreen:

Naaaaaaaa Wickers i think Kevin is secretly into FISHING....... :mrgreen:

AJ Adele

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:49:02 GMT

AJ wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:

KevinC wrote:What a can of worms this has opened! There have been some fair points made by both experienced and novice skiers but I'd like to clarify my comments about those 'blue roads'.

I was learning to board last week and having to come from the mountain that way as it was the only blue run to the village. I was capable of 'sliding' down and turning. I'm still a novice though and am entitled to a bit of space either side to turn so that I don't have to go straight down at full pelt - this is dangerous for everyone. Unfortunately in Bardonecchia one doesn't seem to be afforded that courtesy with people flying past on both sides simultaneously within a copule of inches.

I really don't think that's acceptable........but I await correction!

Edit - there was an alternative red run to the village!

Kevin, it is great fun when you have opened a can of worms or lit the blue touch paper and then sit back and read the results, thats what the forum all about healthy debate :mrgreen:

Naaaaaaaa Wickers i think Kevin is secretly into FISHING....... :mrgreen:

AJ Adele

I think he might need a bigger worm :shock: :shock:

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:03:53 GMT

It's perfectly 'adequate' thanks :(

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:05:21 GMT

ise wrote:

AllyG wrote:m. I ski behind them, and say 'Excusez-moi, je voudrais depasser a droight/gauche' and 'excuse me I would like to overtake on the right/left', and wait to make sure they have understood, before I overtake.

that's impressive :D I'd normally stick at droit/gauche/links/recht :D the only time I need to do this as a rule is on a long track out of a black or a road off an off-piste run so I don't wait around for them to see if they're wobbly or not.

Ise i bet you can count the people on one hand that you see on a mornings skiing,Lucky bugger.

AJ Adele

Re:Skiing Etiquette

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:09:03 GMT

KevinC wrote:It's perfectly 'adequate' thanks :(

:mrgreen: