Latest posts for the topic "High Altitude woes"

High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 05:43:02 GMT

I'm going to be going back to Colorado and I have a VERY hard time adjusting to the altitude, and it's quite uncomfortable for me. Outside of hammering down water by the gallon. What do you guy recommend?
While I'm on here I'd might as well go with the next question. I've been reading some stuff on avalanches and have a very basic knowledge. Now I'm not going to be doing ANYTHING off piste or anything like that, but in the spring, are they common? I was also thinking in investing in a Recco reflector, in lue of the in bounds avalanche at Jackson Hole. Not to mention I'd like to pick one up as I am optimistic about moving to Austria and I intend on exploring, as much as possible.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:42:49 GMT

IceGhost, i have been using Gingko Biloba for a while now. I had not expected my high altitude symptoms to diminish, but I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm getting far less sleepless nights/headaches/nosebleeds and breathlessness when at altitude.

A Recco reflector as you will know is a passive reflector. Quite a few ski clothing manufacturers include them into the arms or collars of garments these days. They are only of use, if you are in a resort which uses the Recco system (not all do). Of course aa Recco Reflector is all about you, so if you see someone else caught up, you will not be able to search for them.
If you are serious about your safety then a Transceiver is the way to go, along with a probe, shovel and some practice in using them.

I have had some stuff sent over from CSAC in the US, it was a good price. It may be worth you having a look :D
http://www.avalanche-center.org/

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:50:53 GMT

Some people aren't as good as others with altitude, it's one of those things and it's hard to do too much about it.

Climbers have a couple of sayings that help, "climb high, sleep low" and "don't go up until the symptoms come down". There's all kinds of good advice that will be hard to follow on a ski trip.

It's really bad to ascend rapidly and you're a lot better off walking up but that's not very practical.

Once you've arrived at height you should allow 24 hours for the body's response to altitude to kick in before serious exertion. Mild exercise during this time is a good thing as it stimulates your altitude response.

high carbohydrate diet at height which means more than 70% of your calorie intake should be carbohydrate

avoid tobacco and alcohol and other depressant drugs including, barbiturates, tranquilizers, and sleeping pills. These reduce circulation and make the symptoms worse.

If you really suffer then doctors can prescribe drugs like Diamox or Dexamethasone (a steroid). Diamox is used widely and in circulation without prescription but it can cause a reaction so you really should only take it under medical advice/supervision.

Herbal treatments ie Ginkgo Biloba may help, there's no clear consensus on this though. Studies do seem to suggest it's pretty good but there's not enough real evidence yet to get dosages agreed or to properly describe the mechanism. However, there's not a huge downside to it so the regime would be 80-120mg daily doses starting around 3 days before ascent. There was an interesting test done : http://www.everestnews.com/stories024/peterh.htm

As you say, hydration is linked to AMS either as s precursor or a symptom so it's worth drinking a lot.

As for RECCO's, that's a whole other story :lol: Carrying one is a waste of time, if you have a camera, radio, mobile phone or just random bits of metal you'll pick up on a RECCO detector anyway. But deployment of RECCO detectors is too slow to be effective so if you're caught in a slide your primary chance of survival is recovery by other party members, that means all being equipped with transceivers, probes and shovels and knowing how to use them. If you want to be double sure then buy a RECCO strip, it should only be a couple of dollars but be aware it's not an effective tool.

The incidence of so-called "in-bounds" avalanches in the US is definitely another story, personally I wouldn't ski those areas without carrying full kit but I never would have so nothing's changed for me. In Austria though it would be ill-advised to venture off-piste without proper kit and training.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 07:58:42 GMT

ise wrote:Some people aren't as good as others with altitude, it's one of those things and it's hard to do to much about it.

Herbal treatments ie Ginkgo Biloba may help, there's no clear consensus on this though. Studies do seem to suggest it's pretty good but there's not enough real evidence yet to get dosages agreed or to properly describe the mechanism. However, there's not a huge downside to it so the regime would be 80-120mg daily doses starting around 3 days before ascent. There was an interesting test done : http://www.everestnews.com/stories024/peterh.htm

As you say, hydration is linked to AMS either as s precursor or a symptom so it's worth drinking a lot.

In my situation, I had been taking Gingko for another reason, and it took me quite by surprise that I had no symptoms to contend with, 1st time back on a mountain.
As you say, there is no clear consensus, perhaps I spontaneously outgrew all my adult symptoms coincidentally at the same time as starting to take Gingko Biloba :D

IceGhost Lots of water and no beer....poor you )

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 08:04:56 GMT

bandit wrote:
In my situation, I had been taking Gingko for another reason, and it took me quite by surprise that I had no symptoms to contend with, 1st time back on a mountain.
As you say, there is no clear consensus, perhaps I spontaneously outgrew all my adult symptoms coincidentally at the same time as starting to take Gingko Biloba :D

IceGhost Lots of water and no beer....poor you )

If your read that link I posted you'll see they mentioned some positive side-effects, better circulation helping warming in extremities which can't be a bad a thing either.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 08:12:05 GMT

ise, yes, I saw that in the article, thanks for the link :D

I still had a few "cold hands" incidents in January though :(

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:38:45 GMT

I had mentioned on here before that the first few days of my holiday were always difficult because of altitude probs. Even though I dont go to really high places. Then I found out I was suffering from chronic anaemia, which mimics the same symptoms of altitude probs.
So this year all probs gone, went to Finland, low altitude and I had surgery back in the summer to alleviate the medical probs that were causing the anaemia. So fantastic holiday, no probs at all and so much more energy, no breathlessness, no headaches or spinning out. So have yet to find out if it was the anaemia or the altitude that caused my distress. Probably not helped by both.
Strange you say Ise dexamethasone used for altitude sickness, never knew that, but knew Diamox. Actually when I had surgery last year I was given dexamethasone, high dose pre anaesthetic. How good was that, I have never felt so good after anaesthetic before, came home on same day as surgery, did'nt sleep, ate like a horse and never felt like I had just had a full anaethetic. Will always insist on that again.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:42:05 GMT

I often get nosebleeds after flying and sometimes during the first day or two in resort. Is that linked to altitude problems?

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:49:01 GMT

Tony_H wrote:I often get nosebleeds after flying and sometimes during the first day or two in resort. Is that linked to altitude problems?

It could well be Tony, or high blood pressure.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:23:59 GMT

bandit wrote:I still had a few "cold hands" incidents in January though :(

My wife has trouble with those... although, oddly, they seem to coincide with me experiencing a "clip round the ear" incident...

I don't think it's altitude-related though.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:34:37 GMT

Admin wrote:

bandit wrote:I still had a few "cold hands" incidents in January though :(

My wife has trouble with those... although, oddly, they seem to coincide with me experiencing a "clip round the ear" incident...

I don't think it's altitude-related though.

My hands literally froze about 15mins into a snowmobile safari and I still had a good 4hrs to go. But within another 15mins they were toasty hot. I could'nt explain, but Hubby said he had fathomed the controls and had swithched on heated seats, heated handlebars, and heated grab handles at the back for me..........pure bliss.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:15:00 GMT

I get cold hands just sitting about the house. I wondered whether than might be related to blood pressure? Its certainly not related to altitude, as where I live its just about bang on sea level.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:57:19 GMT

RoseR wrote:Strange you say Ise dexamethasone used for altitude sickness, never knew that, but knew Diamox. Actually when I had surgery last year I was given dexamethasone, high dose pre anaesthetic.

Diamox is the drug of choice for mild AMS, the alpine variety really. Diamox is something that can be administered and have the person still moving, dexamethasone is really only suitable for use as you're evacuating someone.

Dexamethasone is a bit more hard core and something you'd use as a primary choice for HACE and for HAPE you'd probably chose Nifedipine. You're really only going to carry Nifedipine and Dexamethasone if you're in the death zone or for long periods above 5000m particularly if you've no easy escape. OTOH, Dexamethasone has some other uses and you can get it in nasal spray and it's useful in high dose to treat anaphylactic shock.

All of which isn't anything to worry about at skier heights :D

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:10:29 GMT

I'm slightly concerned about my youngest. I've mentioned before that he suffered badly when we got off the funicular on the grand motte (about 3000m I think). we're back there at easter but this time he'll be in lessons so I'll have to have a word with the instructor.

he didn't suffer at the top of toviere (2704m) so I'm guessing it was the speed of getting to the altitude rather than the altitude itself, so could he be ok if he went on the good old fashioned chair lift?

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:22:00 GMT

caron-a wrote:I'm slightly concerned about my youngest. I've mentioned before that he suffered badly when we got off the funicular on the grand motte (about 3000m I think). we're back there at easter but this time he'll be in lessons so I'll have to have a word with the instructor.

he didn't suffer at the top of toviere (2704m) so I'm guessing it was the speed of getting to the altitude rather than the altitude itself, so could he be ok if he went on the good old fashioned chair lift?

I think you're right, the first day or so if you can stay at 2000-2500m that would help. Also, take the other lifts up, stop between each one for 5 or 10 minutes or longer, take some mild exercise, chuck a snowball or something but nothing too dramatic.

It can be unpleasant but there's no significant long term effects but there are immediate safety concerns, ataxia (loss of co-ordination), headaches, nausea or GI problems, shortness of breath etc all make it difficult to ski (climb or trek etc) safely. If in doubt hop back on the lift.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:34:06 GMT

caron-a wrote:I'm slightly concerned about my youngest. I've mentioned before that he suffered badly when we got off the funicular on the grand motte (about 3000m I think). we're back there at easter but this time he'll be in lessons so I'll have to have a word with the instructor.

he didn't suffer at the top of toviere (2704m) so I'm guessing it was the speed of getting to the altitude rather than the altitude itself, so could he be ok if he went on the good old fashioned chair lift?

Maybe he nicked Graham's hipflask?

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:39:40 GMT

The sleeping at a low altitude is one I really noticed in Colorado. I never had any problems (and we were as high as 12,000 ft.) except the one night we stayed at 9,000+ ft. I woke up with a headache, and just felt pathetic. Otherwise, slept at around 6,000 and was OK. Although, I did notice some shortness of breath under heavier exertion. No big deal though. I tried to drink a lot of water! Probably a minimum of 60 oz per day - plus more at meals.

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:06:19 GMT

Tony_H wrote:I often get nosebleeds after flying and sometimes during the first day or two in resort. Is that linked to altitude problems?

No. Just stop p%%%sing the air crew and tour reps off!! :lol:

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:11:59 GMT

All Recco is good for is finding dead bodies

Re:High Altitude woes

Mon, 9 Feb 2009 20:42:54 GMT

getjim wrote:

Tony_H wrote:I often get nosebleeds after flying and sometimes during the first day or two in resort. Is that linked to altitude problems?

No. Just stop p%%%sing the air crew and tour reps off!! :lol:

:lol: