Latest posts for the topic "Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?"

Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:39:46 GMT

Just re-starting skiing hols after 20years, now with kids. I am lower intermediate, but husband has lots of experience and ability to go off-piste independently. Need insurance to cover this, and was considering InsureandGo, but have since seen rubbish reviews of their service. Any recommendations would be very gratefully received, especially from anyone who has had to make a claim and been treated OK by insurers. With most of these things you can never really tell how good/bad they are until the proverbial hits the fan, and by then it's too late to do anything about it!!

Nitty

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:41:03 GMT

We use Dogtag insurance every year, we had to upgrade our insurance when we were in Tignes one year (to go paragliding) and it was done without any hassle.Fortunately we've never had to claim so can't comment on that side.

AND you get to wear a dogtag all week!
http://www.dogtag.co.uk/

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:55:20 GMT

I like the dogtag policy for the.. dogtags :lol:

Careful with the cover level you go for.. 'ski touring' isn't covered until the second level.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:59:31 GMT

I considered Dogtag, but went with Direct-Travel as their definition of off piste was less ambiguous.
AFAICT, Dogtag expect you to only ski on marked patrolled itineraries, which is what they define as off piste, or, pay a hefty upgrade for their Extreme package.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:08:21 GMT

The one below the Extreme policy allows ski touring, surely they cannot expect that to be 'in bounds'?!?!

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:58:11 GMT

www.snowcard.co.uk

Having done quite a bit of research on this last year, I have found these guys to be by far the best. They are pricy, but you will realise why if you look at terms of coverage and ask the sales staff specific question and then compare with other providers.

They offer a combination of a standard base coverage and then you add on whatever level of activity card you require and for however long. So I have a basic international travel policy with them and have then added a level 4 (i think) card for 3 weeks. This covers me for skiing and downhill mountain biking for any 3 weeks during the year. (I think there are some restrictions on the length of a single trip in common with other insurers.) Other levels can be bought that do not include certain activities.

When researching insurers last year I was shocked at the ambiguity that exists in even the basic holiday insurance. Putting ski insurance aside, most travel insurers expect you to go on holiday and basically just sit in your hotel room for a couple of weeks. Ice skating, swimming, diving, even walking/trekking, are more often than not considered high risk pursuits or there are sufficient ambiguities in the terms that would put you on dodgy ground should you be seriously injured whilst doing anything considered 'active' (what ever that means).

Even for things such as loosing your baggage, most insurers I contacted told me that receipts for all the clothes in your suitcase would be required to substantiate a claim. Who keeps all the receipts for all the clothes that they have ever bought?

Considering skiing specific insurance; most ski policies are standard holiday policies with add on provisions for skiing. The add-on is really just to protect the costs incurred should you have an accident and usually does not consider the additional cost that can be incurred should part of a skiing trip go awry.

This means that should your bags and ski equipment go missing, the standard amounts covered for baggage are usually hopelessly inadequate for the cost of replacing all the gear you would take with you on a skiing trip. Then there is the time between realising your bag is not on the airport carrousel, and the airline actually admitting that it can't find it. You need to hire equipment during this time and this is not covered on most policies.

Snocard has designed the policies to cater for all of these circumstances.

Off-piste skiing is the next factor to consider. The add-on policies range from disallowing it altogether to allowing it only under certain conditions ranging from taking a guide to the "resort deeming that an area is unsafe". This worries me a lot as the definition of off-piste in a European resort is anything outside the markers. So, that well skied 4m wide bit in between two green runs is off-piste as far as the insurer is concerned. This could allow an insurer to refuse payong out should you be injured in that area. Don't even think of asking for a definition of off-piste in North America where the term is redundant and the term "out-of-bounds" is used instead, but appears nowhere in any policy I have seen supposedly covering North America.

One of the levels of activity card you can purchase from Snocard allows you to ski off-piste. The terms contain language that refers to having taken adequate precautions, being prepared, paying attention to conditions, and not acting recklessly. Whilst stressing that I am not a legal expert, it would seem to me that this means that so long as you have paid attention to avalanche bulletins and have gone out adequately equipped (transceivers, shovels, probes and training), then you will be covered.

To summarise, I have the impression that the Snocard policies have been designed by people who have actually been on a winter holiday and understand what it means to ski in the back country, (or off-piste or whatever you want to call it). They have though about all of the circumstances that might arise where you would want insurance to pay out whilst protecting themselves from idiots that might go off-piste without any equipment into conditions that guarantee they will get into trouble.

Luckily I have never needed to claim, but based on my experience with Snocard so far, I highly recommend them.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:59:10 GMT

RossF wrote:The one below the Extreme policy allows ski touring, surely they cannot expect that to be 'in bounds'?!?!

Putting ski touring, or using skins aside, I was a little concerned that if I were skiing off piste under a lift, or between pistes, I would not be covered as it would be neither a piste or an itinerary.

I used to use Snowcard. Last year, I was sent for an MRI scan on 1 knee by a consultant. Like a good little citizen I told Snowcard my insurer, as it's part of the policy requirement. They simply withdrew my cover the same day. So I went hiking in Switzerland anyway, and the net result of the scan was, apparently I'm getting old.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:03:08 GMT

I am definitely going to have to upgrade to Extreme 'just in case'.

B*stards :lol:

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:06:33 GMT

Not that it mattered when we skied Canada the first half of Jan. Avalanche conditions ment that even the good terrain in the resorts was closed :cry:

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:09:55 GMT

Whistler? That'll teach you for going to Canada to ski in a European resort :twisted:

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:12:08 GMT

bandit wrote:

RossF wrote:The one below the Extreme policy allows ski touring, surely they cannot expect that to be 'in bounds'?!?!

Putting ski touring, or using skins aside, I was a little concerned that if I were skiing off piste under a lift, or between pistes, I would not be covered as it would be neither a piste or an itinerary.

I used to use Snowcard. Last year, I was sent for an MRI scan on 1 knee by a consultant. Like a good little citizen I told Snowcard my insurer, as it's part of the policy requirement. They simply withdrew my cover the same day. So I went hiking in Switzerland anyway, and the net result of the scan was, apparently I'm getting old.

Nice! I'm a little dissapointed at this. (Though probably not half as much as you.)
Did they offer you any money back (for unused portion of coverage) or the option to increase the premium?

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:13:56 GMT

RossF wrote:Whistler? That'll teach you for going to Canada to ski in a European resort :twisted:

The only place we didn't ski was Whistler :lol:

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:15:43 GMT

And avvy danger was that bad :shock:

I didn't think the interior was hit too bad, where did you ski?

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:35:40 GMT

steverandomno wrote:

bandit wrote:

RossF wrote:The one below the Extreme policy allows ski touring, surely they cannot expect that to be 'in bounds'?!?!

Putting ski touring, or using skins aside, I was a little concerned that if I were skiing off piste under a lift, or between pistes, I would not be covered as it would be neither a piste or an itinerary.

I used to use Snowcard. Last year, I was sent for an MRI scan on 1 knee by a consultant. Like a good little citizen I told Snowcard my insurer, as it's part of the policy requirement. They simply withdrew my cover the same day. So I went hiking in Switzerland anyway, and the net result of the scan was, apparently I'm getting old.

Nice! I'm a little dissapointed at this. (Though probably not half as much as you.)
Did they offer you any money back (for unused portion of coverage) or the option to increase the premium?

Actually, I was pretty cross at their behaviour. They assured me that it was the industry norm. They reinstated the cover once I had a letter from the consultant, which essentially said, nothing to see or do here. No refund offered at any time.

I had complained to them that their policy had less value than a chocolate teapot, and their response was they'd only withdrawn cover for that knee.
My understanding of insurance policies for travellers and those participating in sports is that all conditions "relating to" are also uninsured, if a company withdraws cover. Just let your imagination run that one through.
Umbrella salesmen, the lot of them. My annual policy with that co. for a couple skiing Europe was close to GBP200.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:37:57 GMT

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I had an MRI by request (GBP800 I won't be spending in a hurry again) to have my knee check out, mostly clear. Rang up Endsleigh to inform them, 'that's great enjoy your trip'.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:46:35 GMT

hard to find good cover.
worked in a resort, was with a ski instructor friend who took kids off piste, he fell and broke his back, ended up crawling back onto the piste for a helicoptor!funny looking back but not at the time!
If im right though, snow mobiles/helicoptors will only rescue you on piste anyway, perhaps im wrong apologies every1 if i am! :oops:

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:26:24 GMT

john101 wrote:hard to find good cover.
worked in a resort, was with a ski instructor friend who took kids off piste, he fell and broke his back, ended up crawling back onto the piste for a helicoptor!funny looking back but not at the time!
If im right though, snow mobiles/helicoptors will only rescue you on piste anyway, perhaps im wrong apologies every1 if i am! :oops:

you're not right but don't worry, it's not very simple at all :lol: it hugely depends on the country you're in who is it that's going to come and rescue you and how they charge.

OTOH, an instructor should be taking people places his own insurance doesn't cover, that doesn't sound too good.

I understand the BMC policy is pretty good, it's a mountaineering based thing so more risk aware than guys who normally cover beach holidays.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:53:10 GMT

BMC (British Mountaineering Club) definitely cover off piste - my son was rescued by helicopter last year after an off piste accident and no probs with the claim. If you are in France your best option is to take out the Carte Neige insurance at 3 euros a day with your lift pass. This covers you for all off piste rescue which many of the cheap UK policies do not. Also speeds up treatment on piste and you don't have to pay up front. I will never forget the screams of a teenager in Chamonix, being brought down in a lift with a broken leg by his mother because she had not taken out the Carte Neige...

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:21:35 GMT

ParalyticSkiCrazie, do you ever have 'user-name regret'?

If so I have been there and know how you feel... it is a lonely place.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:26:39 GMT

ParalyticSkiCrazie wrote:BMC (British Mountaineering Club) definitely cover off piste - my son was rescued by helicopter last year after an off piste accident and no probs with the claim.

The annual policy is something like 140 quid and covers trips upto 90 days I think. It's an Alpine and Ski policy so if you wanted to climb Mt Blanc and ski down (which I don't recommend, it's too busy nowadays) then it would cover you.

The problem is that it's for members only. Anyone can join but it does cost GBP29.95 per year. The other route is to join an affiliated club, that's often a cheaper option as the affiliated club fee is (I think) GBP11.75

The Ski Club one never quite looks as good although it's apparently managed by Perkin Slade now. I would think they also do the BMC one, Perkin Slade are the professional insurer for mountain leaders so they're known in this market.

Personally, I'd go with the BMC one although if you're not a member it bumps the cost up and for a single trip that might be too much

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:25:44 GMT

RossF wrote:And avvy danger was that bad :shock:

I didn't think the interior was hit too bad, where did you ski?

Starting Jan 4th, we skied Revelstoke, Kicking Horse, Panorama and Sunshine.

We had fresh powder at Revelstoke and Kicking Horse, but it was unusually heavy for early Jan and the base was really in need of the new snow.

They had just had an extended period of -40C and sparse coverage prior to the snowfall when it also warmed up to the minus single digits, followed by high winds. On top of a Nov raincrust this provided serious avalanche conditions for the two weeks from 5th. (Rated at Extreme for at least a week or so at treeline and alpine for the majority of western canada).

We attended an avalanche awarness evening in Banff on 11th where an avalanche forcaster described the then current cycle as one of the most serious in living memory. A guy from parks Canada explained that whilst helicopter bombing a couple of days earlier, the disturbance of the bomb casing hitting the snow was enough to trigger avalanches that ran the full historic path of known runnouts.

We had a day-off in Golden on the 8th and drove towards Rogers Pass. All the roadside banks from Golden to Kinbasket Lake Resort had mini avalanches. Like nothing I have ever seen.

As a result, the steeper less ski compacted terrain inbounds was closed. The conditions now seem to have come back down to Medium/Considerable.

Check out Avalanche.ca for reports.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:00:50 GMT

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Seems like quite a common issue. It's a pain having to consider that insurers will try every excuse they can not to pay out. A friend of mine broke her tibia and fibula last year on an area just off-piste so the danger is always in the back of my mind. Thankfully my hubby is pretty risk averse and didn't venture off-piste because he recognised it was the wrong type of snow at the time, but I know he'd love to do something a bit more adventurous if he gets the chance. Will look into the mountaineering club stuff as he also now partakes in the bonkers mountain marathons, so it might be worth his while joining up, if they include that sort of thing.

Nitty

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:42:37 GMT

ise wrote:

OTOH, an instructor should be taking people places his own insurance doesn't cover,

Not the best advice I have seen you give out on this site

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:44:58 GMT

steve, you have to go back when the terrain is open, you seriously missed out on the good stuff at Kicking Horse/Revelstoke!

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:41:20 GMT

RossF wrote:steve, you have to go back when the terrain is open, you seriously missed out on the good stuff at Kicking Horse/Revelstoke!

We were at Kicking Horse the second day of big snowfall. Fuse, bowl over and both sides of CPR ridge were still open so we got some big (heavy) powder turns in there. But when we got to Sunshine, the chutes on Goat's Eye and Delirium Dive were closed. I didn't even want to try the shoulder even though it was open.

Shame, as I've been wanting to try the dive for ages and this year was the first time we had the equipment to do it.

There's always next year.

Re:Decent insurance, to cover general skiing and off-piste - any suggestions?

Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:05:59 GMT

nitty - you've been given advice on the all singing and dancing insurance for your man but for if you're still considering insureandgo for yourself then I'd recommend them. [forgive me for repeating myself] last year they repaid all my medical expenses, lift pass, lessons and ski hire costs as well as insuring me again this year with full cover on the injury. I obviously love them :mrgreen: