Latest posts for the topic "A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution"

A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 00:44:58 GMT

A Male Problem and a Proposed Solution

A True tale

All men have a problem at a certain time in their lives. It is rarely talked about, except around a fireplace, a camp fire or after a game of rugby and several beers. There are many solutions to this problem and this tale is about one such solution.

As always it is a true tale,,even if some of you will doubt that.

First , so that you can get the context and really understand the depth of this male problem ( most women do not even consider this a problem) we have to consider how other cultures, other ages dealt with this issue! You see it has been a male problem since man left the caves!

In a nutshell the issue is , "how does a boy become a man"! How does a boy show to the world he is a man! At this point you are probably saying, "get on with it Pavel,,this is a ski site,,,,not some socio-educational" artsy site! We want skiing!

Patience,, and you will see how skiing is central to this tale!!!

In all societies there is some way that a boy "becomes a man"! Sometimes it is ritualized, sometimes it is legalized,,however in our modern society boys are lost in trying to find that path to manhood and they try all sorts of ways to "prove" to peers, parents teachers and girls how tough they are ,,,ie how manly they are ! Thinking that is the way to be a "man"!

I will not go into the many ways this is done since you all have seen such behaviors!

Now back to my story. I was once in my former lives responsible for "problem boys". I do not have to tell you the profile,,you all know the typical case history,,suffice to say that I realized that 90% of them were just trying to become men (in a very ineffective way)!

For many years I had taken my two boys skiing in June the old fashion way. That is sleep in tent,walk up to peak and ski untracked, ungroomed terrain. I noticed a great change in both my boys after first trip. I wondered if such an "outing" could help some "problem boys"!

I selected the toughest boy who has skied before (I will not go into detail what he had done), bought him hiking boots and told him that instead of being "locked up" for a week during holiday time, he could do whatever he wanted once he climbed up a "small mountain" and skied down with me and some of my buddies!

With a sly grin he accepted right away! He was going to run me to the ground. He was going to show this old fart what he could do on skis!
There was no rules on this trip. No directives like do this and not that! All he had to do is walk up this "small mountain" and ski down, then he could do what he wanted for 5 days !

Let me describe this lad at beginning of hike! Long shoulder length hair. Very tight jeans, with open collar shirt. No need of gloves, hat or water bottle. It was Coke and chips in back pack! I forgot,,a huge radio also ( it was pre-Ipod days)!

While we selected out food, clothing, survival gear at the base lodge,,he just sat in corner listen loudly to his radio! He was tough. He was young and would show these old men!
After some discussion we did convince him not to bring up radio (known as boom-box) since you could not buy batteries "up there"!

Like a rocket he was gone up the trail, walking twice as fast as the group. He wanted to get this over so that he could get those free days. The first hour we did not see him once,,but we did hear him fall several times and curse the rocks, the trees, the slippery snow and of course me!
The second hour , he was walking along side the group drinking his coke and eating his chips! Worst he threw the empty bottle in the woods and then crumbled the chip bag in the trail. Without a word I picked up the bottle and paper bag! My friends just waited for me, Barry (the lad) looked backed,,,,wondered why I was picking up his bottle!

By the third hour,,there was no more cursing, (it took too much air out of him to do so), the jeans were ripped to give him more room, and hair was tied back since sweat was flowing down! At every stop one of us would offer to take one of his "heavy" objects! In the final 45 minutes, we were carrying his skis, his food, his sleeping bag (I did say we were going to sleep in a open shelter) and he was barely following us!
No a word was said when 15 minutes later he shows up to our prepared shelter! We had selected our sleeping spots so that he was sleeping in the most exposed area. There was no doubt he was going to be covered with at least 10 cm of snow in the morning! He ate his cookies and more chips while we prepared to sleep!

At this point some bright boys might begin to think that perhaps these old farts might know what they are doing,,so just perhaps I should do like them! NO not Barry. He did not notice that we placed all our clothing INSIDE our sleeping bags. That we placed our boots WITHIN the very end of our sleeping bags!

In the early morning at 4 AM we dressed (in our sleeping bags) while we hear more cursing, yelling about cold wet shirt, cold wet boots! We just look at Barry and offer him warm underwear, warm thick socks and ho,,,,an extra pair of warm boots we had brought along ,,just in case! I could see slowly a small light beginning to shine in this boys head! "We might help him survive" was the thought I glimpsed!

Now the steep climp was beginning, like a steep stairway to heaven there was just one way to go up. It was the steps previous skiers had made. Silence now. No more comments or cursing. Just deep glups of air! Once over the lip a view this lad had never seen in his life. It unfolded before him as the clouds passed! It was clear that the vastness of this "small" mountain was overwhelming! The 20 km. view was stunning! Then looking down on the clouds a "frigthening realization" was dawning on him! I could see it in his eyes. He looked at me,,then at the lip. Back at me and then slowly at the lip and cliff beyond! Yes only one way down,,,,over the lip into the bowl.

He realized then that we were all crazy. That we were not joking about skiing the lip and that steep bowl! As we sat and admired to view,,I casually asked him if he wanted some "advice" on how to get pasted the lip! After seconds of silence, he whispered, "yah"!

We (the old farts) all looked at each other and understood, Barry was beginning to become a man! He was accepting that others could possibly help him! That nature is more powerful than you! That some people who look normal, calm and quiet,, They are the dangerous ones. The ones who will voluntarily go to the edge,,the very edge and jump with grace, style not for show but to enjoy that total freedom!

The lip is more frigthening in the mind that anything else. You must trust others the first time since your brain is screaming not to go into freefall! Yes just 5 meters,,but it ould be 30 meters. No sane person jumps, on skis, with heavy clothing in the middle of a mountain with no ski patrol, not groomers, no hospital for at least 4 hours! But once you land,,,it is so soft!

(please I never suggest that anyone does this without help, advice and support. You must learn to do this correctly)

That is the second thing Barry learnt that day. Trust. Watching first old man go over the lip, stick the landing and soar in 3 giant steep turns. I explained what to do as the second crazy skier when over lip! Again no hesitation, hands in front and no leaning back!

Then as the first two waited at the lower portion, just below lip! I tapped Barry's shoulder and said "you can do it", GO!
Off he went! Perfect position,,,, slight side swipe - speed check, quick turn and,,,,,,,, Landing in the soft,,then three huge turns and a yell of joy!

He was another person from then on! He had faced his limit and discovered that with help you can overcome it! Where before everyone told him he was no good in school , no good at home here at this moment he knew he was better that good!

Three more times he climbed up and went over lip. The last run to bottom was bitter sweet since we all knew this was the last run till next year.
At the bottom nothing was said, except Barry went into my packsack,,took out his discarded coke bottle and chip bag and walked to the garbage bin and tossed them in! We all pretended to look the other way!

Yes he had proven to himself that he was a man up there and now he was acting like a man should. Taking his responsibilities, not blaming others for the problems we have. No need to show others you are a man,,when you know you are one.

You see that is the male problem we have. How do you show others that you are a man! Seems to me it is never made clear to young men in this moder society! So we ski faster, jump higher cliffs, drive faster cars and so on.

This event happened in 1973 and since then every year a selection is made by the "men" of the group and a new "goofer" is found! Every year around May I get calls from those men who now no longer try to prove they are men,,since that issue was solved on that mountain. Every year another boy finds his manhood on that mountain.

So those who watch "The Spirit of Skiing" look carefully at those boys becoming men! It is a moving moment!

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:21:35 GMT

Wow - what a wonderful story.

A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:09:17 GMT

Truely was. I wish you were about when I was a troublesome youth.

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:18:22 GMT

Yeah I really enjoyed that story.

Had me imagining some lovely scenery whilst at the office!

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:39:16 GMT

I'm 18 and im right troublesome lad,,, pavel i think the only way to sort it out is for you take me off skiing! :roll: :lol:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:44:22 GMT

Sorry pavel too long you lost me 8)

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:23:47 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:Sorry pavel too long you lost me 8)

Ian, go back and try again ... it is worth every second :!:

Another great story with deep meaning Pavel :thumbup:

Was this a trip to Tuckerman, Pavel?

swskier, you say you're troublesome ... but we can tell you're wise ... :!:
Mike :wink:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:29:05 GMT

I might not be troublesome but I am a foolish 18 year old...

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:37:36 GMT

RossF wrote:I might not be troublesome but I am a foolish 18 year old...

I was with a group of young people a few weeks back and one of them turned around to one of the younger leaders and said "young person not stupid person" which has had me chuckling ever since :)

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:56:55 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:Sorry pavel too long you lost me 8)

Ian, go back and try again ... it is worth every second :!:

Another great story with deep meaning Pavel :thumbup:

Was this a trip to Tuckerman, Pavel?

swskier, you say you're troublesome ... but we can tell you're wise ... :!:
Mike :wink:

Thanks Mike, being a bit of a kn*b, great story Pavel. :oops:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:37:51 GMT

Sorry Ian,

I had no intention to offend - which I may have done. Sorry :oops:

Mike

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:27:22 GMT

Yes Mike,
Every year at the very, very, very end of my skiing season, I go to this magical place called Tuckerman Ravine where there is snow till June.
Strange people go there that are "addicted" to skiing and do not want to end the season.
They bring all sorts of gifts to the gods in order to have another snow storm.

If any of you know about the "Burning Man" event in California,,well this is the equivalent in skiing! ( It is worth your while to go to this site, just to get "flavor" of this event. Just type in Google burning man)

Now we have 30 lads call me up and asking when the trip will "happen" and who the "lucky" goofer will be this year. I get all sorts of calls from parents, police, teachers, and even priests since they have heard about this "trip"! Seems there are lots of candidates and it seems to be more every year!

Will send you video of the 2009 event Mike!

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:00:22 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:Sorry Ian,

I had no intention to offend - which I may have done. Sorry :oops:

Mike

No offense taken Mike, It was a genuine apology, I should have read the whole posting, just being a bit lazy. :lol:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:26:56 GMT

pavelski wrote:
Will send you video of the 2009 event Mike!

I wonder if I could be in that video ? :shock: My wife will tell you that I can be troublesome :!: :mrgreen:

Some year this may be a great place for the J2Skiers to meet and get to know each other even more :roll:

Mike :wink:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:05:53 GMT

Mike,
I was asked by some women skiers about, "female problem" in the skiing context.
Unfortunately I do not feel qualified to prepare a text,,but wait,,I found a women ski instructor who is willing to do so.

The problem is that many of the problems she brought out were men related.

I think I will have to pass this by Dave,,since I do not want to start another long long "discusssion" about male/female issues!

One of the points she makes is about the "male aggressive skiing style" which many men consider good ("expert") skiing!

You ski with your wife at all times,does she have input?

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:20:59 GMT

pavelski wrote:Mike,

You ski with your wife at all times,does she have input?

All the time... :shock: Well most of the time... The question at the top of the lift ... left or right ??? she selects the next run. It is all good to me - left or right :!:. After a while she may wish a rest so off I go for a solo run. Not as much fun without her :roll:

If she has a good time then I will too. Every Saturday morning (after a stressful work week) we leave home about 7:45am for the 9 am first chair. Being there for the first chair keeps me happy and this may be her effort for the good days we have. By the end of the season, there is no getting her out the door early on a Saturday morning :!:

Mike :wink:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 19:51:57 GMT

Mike from NS wrote:

pavelski wrote:Mike,

You ski with your wife at all times,does she have input?

All the time... :shock: Well most of the time... The question at the top of the lift ... left or right ??? she selects the next run. It is all good to me - left or right :!:. After a while she may wish a rest so off I go for a solo run. Not as much fun without her :roll:

If she has a good time then I will too. Every Saturday morning (after a stressful work week) we leave home about 7:45-am for the 9 am first chair. Being there for the first chair keeps me happy and this may be her effort for the good days we have. By the end of the season, there is no getting her out the door early on a Saturday morning :!:

Mike :wink:

I agree mike, I would not want to ski without the wife, it's great to share with someone close the experiences of the day . :wink:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:17:19 GMT

Thanks for sharing that, you are a very wise man and I was riverted and those lads were lucky to be with you.

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:21:29 GMT

Karen Teare wrote:Thanks for sharing that, you are a very wise man and I was riverted and those lads were lucky to be with you.

Pavels tales are legendary, I look forward to them. I hate it when he is absent from this forum :lol:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:01:09 GMT

RoseR wrote:

Karen Teare wrote:Thanks for sharing that, you are a very wise man and I was riverted and those lads were lucky to be with you.

Pavels tales are legendary, I look forward to them. I hate it when he is absent from this forum :lol:

I'm waiting to read the book one day :-)

Trencher

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:10:56 GMT

At a certain age (it varys with men) you begin to accept certain evident truths.
Women and men do not view "competition" the same way.

Men use much more evident, more physical means of competition. Just watch children in school yard.

Women (and I know I am now on thin ice)still have the sense of competition BUT they are more "sophisticated" more subtle, more "efficient" in their competitive strategies.
We should learn from them!

In ski racing (which was designed by men) the greatest difficulty to overcome by women is to "attack" the run like men!To be on razor's edge from top to bottom. Never letting course design take over.
I call it the "sacred fire", some great coaches call it the grrrrrr factor! More important that physical fitness and skiing technique,,you need that grrrrrr factor. That is what wins races.

In free skiing in my experience women do not compete with each other like men. Their level of competition is in another dimension (and I will not veture into this dimension since all women know this "zone" more than me), however there is that rare women skier who ventures into the male arena!
Just today I had a women friend who is a great skier share with me her experience showing men that she is as good if not better than them!
Let me tell you an event that illustrated this so well.

I was Spring skiing in a special place in June. Only the best of the best ski this place since it is steep, soft Spring snow and all can see you coming down.
Two tiny dots took a line that ended in a shelf with a 3 meter drop, then another 4 meter drop.

All eyes were on these two dots. Their skiing was clearly superior that many others. Clean lines. Tight turns and assurance rarely seen.
As the dots came closer it was clear these were two women skiers. Not just any women,,but two women from the USA National team and they were making a statement.
"We can compete in your terrain, with your rules, and still have fun".

When they finished their run, the bowl was silent for a second, then clapping, wild "hurrahs" and whistles!

As I said rare,,, but once you see it it leaves you breathless. In my case everytime I ski that spot,,I look up and see them skiing!

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Thu, 4 Dec 2008 23:25:56 GMT

Karen Teare wrote:Thanks for sharing that, you are a very wise man and I was riverted and those lads were lucky to be with you.

Is that a west country accent I detect there?

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Fri, 5 Dec 2008 01:06:39 GMT

Pavel, you are so right. The ladies who ski, look at the world in a different light.

So, skiing alone, and going up the gondola, I got talking to a wonderful dutch lady. Her young child was back in Niederau village, being looked after by her husband, and she was getting to ski the morning. After a few interchanges, we found we had worked for the same ski schools. And so passed a blissful mornings skiing with a most pleasant and very capable lady skier. At the end of the morning, she told me, this was her last run of the day. So, we looked in the eye, each gave a grin, and we punched gloves.

Then, I have mentioned before, about my special second home, the Bichlwirt, a 500-year old place, that is deep in my heart. On the walls are racing certificates, from the lady that runs the Bichlwirt. Every winter, we go skiing together, she just skis. I race. I have never won.

So I thought about this a lot, what could I do? I told her that she was a rubbish skier, because she couldn't turn. I told her to follow me, although I was fairly sure what might coming. For 3/4 of the way down the mountain, I could hear her impatient skis holding back.

Then, she came roaring past, doing the tiniest of turns, don't even think carving, we are talking toe-wrinkling. Even though I went pretty well straight down the fall line, I was left for dead.

At the bottom, she slightly smiled, but I laid into her. "There you are", I said, "that proves it, you couldn't manage one decent turn."

And here my friends is a piece of poetry, by an Austrian, in English.

She said, "I was very modest with my space". One day, I will write a song about that line.

There is a third lady item. The daughter of the lady that runs the Bichlwirt, is shaping up to be faster than the mother. She is eleven/twelve years old.

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:09:07 GMT

DaveMac,
Yes of course.
Is it not wonderful that we are different as long as we accept out differences.

I suspect we have had the same "adventures"

Did your son get that soccer scholarship in Colorado?

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Fri, 5 Dec 2008 16:53:46 GMT

Pavelski wrote:

Did your son get that soccer scholarship in Colorado?

I fear there is a little mis-understanding.

Both of my sons separately worked their university summers in the States, in Wisconsin, and later, in Oregon. Both qualified as lifeguards, and seemed to spend their time saving nice looking young ladies, even when the ladies were in no trouble.

Don't know where they got that from. :shock:

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:40:58 GMT

Dave Mac,
Please forgive my error. I suspect someone else on this site mentionned this point. I assumed it was you.

All of the rest is correct ,,I hope!

Pavel

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Sat, 6 Dec 2008 20:35:12 GMT

pavelski wrote:Dave Mac,
Please forgive my error. I suspect someone else on this site mentionned this point. I assumed it was you.

All of the rest is correct ,,I hope!

Pavel

Pav, it was my son who was going to America to play football for 4 years. We wont know until February where he is going. He wants to go to Florida or California, but I want him to go to Colorado.
Cant think why.....

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:31:20 GMT

This, and your recent post got me thinking. I know there are some charities that aim to give deprived kids/teenagers/young adults an experience of mountains. Does anyone have a good list of these charities?

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:57:29 GMT

steverandomno wrote:This, and your recent post got me thinking. I know there are some charities that aim to give deprived kids/teenagers/young adults an experience of mountains. Does anyone have a good list of these charities?

what do mean by that? skiing or adventure travel? what's your interest if I might ask? and, yes I probably do have some contacts depending on what you need.

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:22:30 GMT

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:23:45 GMT

ise wrote:

steverandomno wrote:This, and your recent post got me thinking. I know there are some charities that aim to give deprived kids/teenagers/young adults an experience of mountains. Does anyone have a good list of these charities?

what do mean by that? skiing or adventure travel? what's your interest if I might ask? and, yes I probably do have some contacts depending on what you need.

Because its the sort of worthwile charity that I wouldn't mind giving some cash to. And I'm sure there are a lot of others who read this who would feel the same way.

I would be interested mostly in skiing related charities.

Re:A Male Problem,,,,,and One Possible Solution

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:41:11 GMT

steverandomno wrote:
I would be interested mostly in skiing related charities.

There's not many of those I'm aware of, it's a fairly exclusive sport and the costs would probably outweigh the benefits for a lot of young people. It's also not of huge interest to the charities working with those groups, in the end participants doing a week skiing in the alps probably won't develop to the degree a group doing their DofE would so the charities get more bang for their buck having groups on hills in the UK.

For that some of the many highlights,

Leonard Cheshire Disability have an Outdoor Pursuits Group who work with young people. Fairbridge are one of the largest groups doing this, speaking for themselves:

OUR SUPPORTERS SHARE OUR BELIEF THAT EVERY YOUNG PERSON DESERVES SOMEONE TO BELIEVE IN THEM AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE THEMSELVES.

LAST YEAR, BY HELPING US TO RAISE OVER GBP10 MILLION, THEY MADE THIS VISION A REALITY FOR OVER 3,700 YOUNG PEOPLE IN 15 OF THE MOST DEPRIVED AREAS IN THE COUNTRY.

But many thousands more would benefit from our support. Current estimates put the number of young people not in education, employment and training at 1.2 million. These young people are in danger of chronic exclusion without the support of organisations such as Fairbridge.

More traditionally any number of youth groups and organisations like the Scouts do fantastic work with young people. What a lot of these groups need really is help but they require qualified people as a rule. Where adventure is used to develop young people it needs to be done properly setting challenges that are achievable for all the participants and making sure everyone goes away having developed in some way in a setting where risk is managed properly.