Latest posts for the topic "Bindings position"

Bindings position

Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:11:43 GMT

On a previous thread Pavel made reference to the realskiers.com website. I spent a bit of time browsing the 'free' bits of the site and was quite intrigued by the following article;
http://www.techsupportforskiers.com/binding_placement.htm

It basically suggests that the centre marks on most modern skies are possibly too far towards the rear of the ski and in a test, all the skiers tested performed better with the bindings moved futher forward.

I remember Trencher mentioning moving the bindings forward on my Salomon Streetracers a while ago.

Any thoughts people? I think this Autumn my bindings may be visting the tips of the skis for a few runs!

Re:Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 00:51:58 GMT

Ellistine,

You have now discovered the reason why that site is so good. It questions issues that others do not dare even approach.

As far as binding positioning, ,,,,,the ball of the foot, that is that first articulation of your big toe must be in the center of the chord length of the ski.

The chord length is the distance from tip to tail if you take a string. Thus it is the line from tip to tail.

The article in question noted how two skis from same ski company had two binding positions.

Never trust the ski length number printed on ski. Always measure it.

Re:Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:47:19 GMT

Some people are experimenting with binding positioning. You can say there's normally potentially three positions on many skis, male and female to reflect differences in balance and freeride/freestyle for difference in application.

I'm extremely dubious about this personally, the problem is that over a average day on a variety of terrain I doubt you can find a perfect position. If you spent all day carving on groomed piste I think you'd easily find a good position. Likewise any ski racer will benefit.

It's largely a UK/US thing really, obsessing about kit in some way, in the Alpes you'll find most people just buy a pair of skis and go out and use them. If I wanted to mess around like this I'd probably need to go to Verbier and find a store that's used to dealing with English.

That article makes some remarks about tester feedback for some very similar skis, I think that's all a red herring as well. If you test skis before you buy them then it's entirely irrelevant, you're going to buy the ones you ski best on. Mostly of course skis are bought based on the impression we're trying to give in the cable car :D

Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:59:53 GMT

Ise wrote:

"It's largely a UK/US thing really, obsessing about kit in some way, in the Alpes you'll find most people just buy a pair of skis and go out and use them".

I am inclined to agree. I have a lot of French skiing friends- some of who are very good indeed- and they seem to be very relaxed about gear. I suspect that technique and fitness are the keys to good skiing with equipment coming a poor third.

Geoff Smith

Re:Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 09:52:14 GMT

ise wrote:It's largely a UK/US thing really, obsessing about kit in some way, in the Alpes you'll find most people just buy a pair of skis and go out and use them.

I think there's probably a reason for this (at least there is with me) - In the UK we spend probably two weeks a year actually skiing and 50 weeks thinking about skiing. That's a lot of time spent browsing the internet, reading reviews, researching techniques etc etc. When the 50 weeks of waiting finally comes to an end we want to know our gear is correct and not hindering our efforts in any way. On my bicycle I can tell if the seat height is out by a few mm. I can still ride the bike with the seat too high or too low but at the right height I save the most energy. Most people you see riding bikes do not have their seat hight set correctly and simply are unaware of the difference it can make.

Re:Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 11:47:42 GMT

ellistine wrote:

ise wrote:It's largely a UK/US thing really, obsessing about kit in some way, in the Alpes you'll find most people just buy a pair of skis and go out and use them.

I think there's probably a reason for this (at least there is with me) - In the UK we spend probably two weeks a year actually skiing and 50 weeks thinking about skiing. That's a lot of time spent browsing the internet, reading reviews, researching techniques etc etc. When the 50 weeks of waiting finally comes to an end we want to know our gear is correct and not hindering our efforts in any way. On my bicycle I can tell if the seat height is out by a few mm. I can still ride the bike with the seat too high or too low but at the right height I save the most energy. Most people you see riding bikes do not have their seat hight set correctly and simply are unaware of the difference it can make.

That's exactly what I was thinking, on the one hand I can see that anyone wants to arrive with everything perfect. On the other, you can't help thinking just relaxing and getting on with it might not be a bad idea :D

Re:Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:16:32 GMT

ise wrote:just relaxing and getting on with it

I wouldn't say it's something that stresses me out. In fact, to me, understanding the various aspects of the equipment is part of the enjoyment of skiing. Chatting about it on sites like this also adds to the enjoyment.

Re:Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:22:10 GMT

ellistine wrote:

ise wrote:just relaxing and getting on with it

I wouldn't say it's something that stresses me out. In fact, to me, understanding the various aspects of the equipment is part of the enjoyment of skiing. Chatting about it on sites like this also adds to the enjoyment.

The level's about right here to me, I've seen other stuff that's just too much and crosses a line into mumbo-jumbo.

I'll settle for arriving in the right place with all my kit having this season once forgotten the liners for my boots arriving in the next village, once forgetting a drink while ski touring and yesterday, not skiing, forgetting my fleece and having to buy new sweatshirt.

Re:Bindings position

Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:05:39 GMT

I remember in March I arrived in the baggage hall at Salzburg airport - picked up our bags - saw a sign saying something about picking skis up from outside the hall - left the hall - couldn't find our skis - looked back through the window in the hall and there were our skis, on the conveyor belt!! Mild panic set it very swiftly. Somehow we managed to sneak back into the baggage hall through the exit door and retrieve them.

Re:Bindings position

Mon, 6 Aug 2007 06:06:34 GMT

This is another of those aspects of skiing that if you snowboard as well, you may get a different perspective. One of the advantages of a snowboard over skis is the ability to use almost limitless fore/aft weight shifts.

When a ski is flat on the snow, it is possible to lean forward or backwards to shift weight along it's length. The problem comes when the ski is tilted on it's edge more than say 45 degrees. The same fore/aft pressure on the cuff now will flex the ski, but won't pressure the front ski edge downwards into the snow. This is compounded by the need for hip counter to angulate properly. Hip counter actually lifts the toes into the air, making front edge pressure even harder to attain.

This problem can be compensated for by setting the bindings a long way forward of their standard position. This allows the skier to dig the front edges in the same way that snowboarders do when carving. Unfortunately this aggressive carving set up will not work on other terrain.

The new floating set ups are great for changing binding placement as conditions change. Just do the math so the numbers add up to your boot length. Both these bindings are set up for a 300mm boot. One binding is set 30 mm ahead of the other, plus another 10mm for the forward/central option (btw these are on different skis).

extreme forward set up

standard set up

Trencher

Re:Bindings position

Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:43:35 GMT

Trencher wrote:
When a ski is flat on the snow, it is possible to lean forward or backwards to shift weight along it's length. The problem comes when the ski is tilted on it's edge more than say 45 degrees. The same fore/aft pressure on the cuff now will flex the ski, but won't pressure the front ski edge downwards into the snow. This is compounded by the need for hip counter to angulate properly. Hip counter actually lifts the toes into the air, making front edge pressure even harder to attain.

The trouble I have understanding this is that an alteration in upper body posture will have the same effect. This is something that doesn't need a screwdriver and skiers ought to be able to do between turns.

Re:Bindings position

Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:43:42 GMT

Over the weekend I looked at my two pairs of skis (Rossignol and Salomon) and did a bit of measuring to work out where the balls of my feet actualy fell on the ski.

I measured the length of the contact point of the ski bases (the length before the tips and tails start to turn up) and drew a line on the ski at the half way point. I then, as best I could, worked out where the balls of my feet were located in my boots and drew a line on them. To my surprise the new line on the skis aligned with the line on the boots exactly! This was the same on both pairs of skis.

The original article I read about this did suggest that french skis were more forward than the germanic/austrian counterparts so perhaps this is the case.

The bindings on my Salomons are moveable without tools so I might still do a bit of experimentation in November.

Re:Bindings position

Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:48:42 GMT

ellistine wrote:
The bindings on my Salomons are moveable without tools so I might still do a bit of experimentation in November.

I've some railflexes on a pair of volkls that might be movable, I'll have to look at it.

Re:Bindings position

Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:09:02 GMT

ise,

Just been looking at your blog. Do you ski tour all year round? You're so lucky to be so close to the mountains. Are the skis you use for touring that much different from conventional downhillers?

Re:Bindings position

Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:42:53 GMT

ellistine wrote:ise,

Just been looking at your blog. Do you ski tour all year round? You're so lucky to be so close to the mountains. Are the skis you use for touring that much different from conventional downhillers?

I only ski tour in the winter, in the summer it's more general hiking and mountaineering.

I've a couple of pairs of tour skis, some stormrider XL's which are a standard freeride/off-piste ski with fritschi freeride touring bindings on them, all in around 6kg. I also have some ultra light stormrider PIT lights with dynafit TLT's (the pin binding), all in around 3.4kg.

Any ski will do with two caveats, very heavy skis are out, the XL's weigh 4kg unmounted which is pretty much the heaviest you want and second, very fat skis are not ideal. Fat skis aren't always very good in difficult off-piste, aren't ideal with skins. People try and push that boundary and get as fat and light as they can. There's an irony with ski touring though, on piste is the usual mix of people, near piste you have some guys with huge fat skis skiing "off-piste" and the further you get from the piste the bigger the beards and skinnier the skis get :D

Black Diamond or G3 are good examples of specialist skis for touring (and telemark).