Latest posts for the topic "The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know"

The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 13:16:27 GMT

Thank you all for a great discussion on this topic.

The moment has come.

Put on your ski helmets ( so you do not hurt your forehead)!

Here they are!

1. DIN Setting
All skiers must know their DIN setting. Now the "medical" side of this number. In late 70's researchers wanted a standard scale for all bindings and for all skiers. Research was done on all the forces that break legs. Lab simulations were done on human bodies ( dead of course) to see the limits of our bones and joints. This is where the "normal distribution" model was used to establish torque limits for the DIN scale. In fact the early DIN scale was based partly on the size of the femur bone!

2. Ski Length
Again another "must" number for all skiers to know. What most skiers do not know is that this value has an "elastic" value to ski manufacturers. Let me explain. A 170 cm ski does not have the same length from company A and B! Always measure manually a ski model before buying it!
This value is very important in conjunction with the turning radius of the ski, in order to determine how a ski will perform on the slope.

3. Turning Radius
The modern ski is a marvelous instrument. This magic number that all skiers should consider before buying a ski indicates the ski's turning possibilities. In other words if you allow a ski to turn ( setting it on edge) it will turn a perfect 13 meter arc ! Assuming you do nothing to change this natural ski arc!
As a general rule of thumb a value of 13 meters indicates a World Cup Slalom type ski.
A value of 22 meters indicates a World Cup Giant Slalom type ski.

4, Sidecut
This is a series of three numbers indicating the "figure" of the ski, very much like a women's figure. The first number is taken at tip area the second at mid point of ski and third at tail of ski.
As a general rule of thumb the more "radical" or different the numbers the more "nervous" the ski. A slalom ski has the most radical "figure" or profile!

Now for that last number. This is the dangerous number that few skiers really know about. This is the number that will make "participants" of this quiz very happy , once they know how to use it.
The presentation of this number will be given in two stages. A general presentation here and a PM presentation to each person who gave "possible" answers. This is done to reward those who "suffered" in this quest. You will get an equation and a simple formula to use for the rest of your skier's life. So when it comes time to buy your ski or board you will use this value.

This number has many "labels"! It is called profit margin, mark up, market potential.

Let me explain.

All of you have one very important concern. All have expressed in various forms the concern of "getting the very
best deal" when you buy a ski. How do you determine that?

Angusl and Ellistine when you looked around for a ski. Or when Dshenberg looks around for board how do you know what is the very best price? This figure will guide you.

It is "bottom line" of the skiing transaction! That is what you consider when you buy home, car, etc... You want to get best deal! This number will guide you!

In order to understand how to use this number and its importance, we need some background information.

Ski companies sell to store a ski at "wholesale price" ( W) and they suggest to store the "retail price" (R). The store then decides what the market ( ie you) will tolerate to pay for the ski! (S) !

All you know is the R value and the S value!

Imagine if you knew the W (wholesale) value!

Imagine what power you could have as consumer!

Now the light is ON!

Now Mike is slapping his forehead!

Now Dshenberg is rubbing his hands!

Now Angusl will no longer ask where to go for "deal"

Now I am going to get thousands of emails and inquiries about how to get this figure! Only you who participated will get equation and how to use this "magic" number since you gave it your best! You jumped into the quiz while others watch!

By using the figures given to you and applying the formula given via PM you will be able to determine if that $537 ski is really a deal.

I understand and accept that all ski stores should make a profit, however there is an acceptable limit. Let these figures speak for themselves.
This is from the 2008 price list of a popular ski company.
SKI X
Suggested Price = $2,299
Wholesale Price = $850
Profit Margin = 170%

It is this profit margin figure that all you skiers must know for your area. If you are a smart consumer you will allow for store profit but you will not tolerant or accept 170% profit!

That is why when you buy a house you check how much the previous owner paid for the house. You accept some price increase on the house but will you really buy a house that triples in price!

That is the power I am passing along to you fellow quiz participants. I hope you keep this value and the formula in your "vest"! ( since some people will "abuse" this power)!

Now you will sleep at night, knowing you got the very best deal since you now know the last number which is the profit margin of the store!

You will today get a PM with;
-examples of 6 2008 ski prices
-a formula to determine "buying decision" figures
-an example how to determine "acceptable prices'

Let me conclude, by thanking you all for all your comments and good "spirit"!

Information is power and I hope you use it with respect and maturity! Stores should make a profit, that is why I am not posting the formula on the net. You have earned "how to use the power" and I know that next time you are in ski store, your mind will recall the 2007 ski quiz and you will generate the P index in order to determine if that ski price is really a "deal"

PS
November is the month when most skiers and boarders buy skis!
The bottom line is the final sale price!
Business and skiing are inter-woven
Yes I do "hear" skiers talk in their sleep!

PM messages to all participants

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:10:51 GMT

I have sent all PM messages to "deserving" participants.

If you do not received message in next two hours, feel free to inquire!

The values are for 2008 skis.

I am undertaking a study in verious countries to determine if this information is valid also in Europe and Japan!

As far as formula to determine P index, feel free to ask if I am not clear in its use!

Information IS power!

Let the power be with you!

Use it wisely!

Pavel

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:11:09 GMT

Damn, Damn, Damn, Damn, Damn!

I had been thinking about markup percentage but didn't know what to submit as a number so I moved on to ability levels.

Still, I never submitted the DIN settings although I had on a previous thread.

Cheers though Pavel. It's always good to have something to look at on the net. In the winter it's webcams (although I am still monitoring the grass conditions at the last resort we visited).

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:16:46 GMT

Ellistine,
Is that 5 slaps on the forehead!!!!

Note that I have not heard from Mike! Must have been one huge DAMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

Will have to call medics to check his house! he might have knocked himself out!

Ellistine now the truth comes out! Mike send me a "detailed" analysis of all his skiing costs for 2006. With an "average" travel cost of $2,45 per ski trip. How impressed I was that he checked all costs! I was sure he would get ski cost factor! He checks all expenses!!!!

Did I hear another forehead slap??????

Pavel

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:22:38 GMT

"average" travel cost of $2,45 per ski trip

If only my skiing cost this little. It costs me GBP30 just to get my skis on a plane!

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 15:04:51 GMT

Yes I know that feeling of getting to airport and having to pay for "extra" weight!

Years ago I could put two skis in my ski team bag and it was accepted! Now I just send my skis ahead via a company that specializes in this service. I do this since the airlines often "lose" my skis and I have to rent some!

That low figure is just an exemple of how Mike calculates every expense. I am sure he can provide;
the average cost per trip in 2007
the average ski wear/waxing cost per season
the average "meal" cost at ski hill
the average dance cost per step per night.

He is an amazing "customer" who really checks all costs. That is why I was sure he would get it!

Then Agus asked some months ago about ski cost! I was sure he would also think of ski cost or ski discount sale!

We will not mention Dshenberg's board purchase in NOVEMBER!!!!

Amazing when you have the answers, how evident they are!!!

Cheers.
Pavel

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 15:58:42 GMT

well, though i considered price it was very hard to give it form. great index pavel! i will now go and read the pm to see how to use it.. i'm looking forward to managing it!
congratulations on your quiz, too. it was much fun!
cya and good luck

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:20:06 GMT

Mike? Are you out there? :shock:

I can't believe you're not watching this thread on the day of revelation!

Missing Mike

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 19:31:12 GMT

I just called the emergency services in Halifax to check on Mike.

Seems he hit his head too hard when he discovered the correct answers to the quiz and fainted!

He is now "recovering" from the shock of NOT winning those Rossi Mutix!

His wife Judy is taking care of the man. I think I hear the moans here!

Pavel

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 20:04:14 GMT

ellistine wrote:Mike? Are you out there? :shock:

I can't believe you're not watching this thread on the day of revelation!

Hi Guys !!! Well now ... yes I should have known that Pavel was up to something here.

I was watching at 6:30 this morning but no messages. By 8:30 I had to leave for Halifax and just returned a short while ago. Friday morning I have a pattern which I call my "health and fitness day". Amoung other Friday morning practices I go skating with the lucky retired / senior people. It is more work than skiing and many of these people ski as well. Some have been following the quizz as well. We often threaten to bring our skis to make use of the snow piled up outside from scraping the ice every hour or so. Then Friday afternoon's during the summer my wife has free. Rather than going doing something different today we had to get back to the computer to check the answers.

Yes I do keep track of the costs as I like to know what to expect from a pattern. (I even keep track of the hours skated and how many hours I have between skate sharpenings. - I use figure skates so I want them in good shape. Most would wonder why as my spins need lots more practice to get them right.)

I do keep track of cost/run as I think I mentioned earlier in the quizz. This must have been one of the HOT remarks from Pavel! Last year, without checking my log, the cost was about $ .48 / run. The day I put in 51 runs helped this out. That day my wife had to go to Toronto on business so I thought I'd take the day off and go ski. (I'm a self employed mechanical engineer) I wanted to see if I could make it to 50 runs in one day. The chair opened at 9am and I completed my runs by 6:45 in the evening. It was a cold day at about -20C but I was determined to keep going. Thankfully there weren't a lot of people there that day. I met some friends who felt they were slowing down my count but the hill was open until 10 pm. If by 6:30 I wasn't so chilled I would have kept going. From run 45 on it was becoming a real challenge to keep going. But 2008 is another time to try for 13 hours straight skiing. Maybe I should start the "12 Hours of Martock" event !!! After this day with no stops for lunch, ( and having strong bladder control) the chill lasted a few hours.

Pavel revealed (to me) his plans for next years quizz, as cryptically as only Pavel can. It is really going to be interesting , very educational and a lot of fun for sure. I'm looking forward to see how he will make it work.

Obviously I took "nominal numbers" in the wrong sense. I should have stuck with my first impression when I took nominal to mean "small or simple" numbers. On re-checking the clues the "nominal" seemed to stand out to me and thought here is something that only Pavel would think of!!! Hidden in plain sight - right in front of our faces. When we are looking at the computer screen - the J2Ski logo in really right in front of our faces!!! I thought YES !!! this is Pavel personified !!! The mind of the culprit. Got me Pavel !!! Dean you were right !!!

This has been fun and a valuable learning experience. It has been great exchanging comments with you all. And some day wouldn't it be really great if we did hear Pavel was coming for us in his executive jet to take us on a ski trip. Even Pavel would want to know the final tally of cost per run for that trip!!! He told me once that his wife keeps the tally like this in his house.

Enjoy the summer and lets hope for some decent amounts of snow for the winter.

Now I'll get a closer look at the answers -- after putting my helmet on ... I think that would be a wise decision.

Mike

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:37:12 GMT

Thanks for the fun, Pavel. Number 5 was quite interesting. . .

Have a great summer all!!

Re:The 5 Secret Numbers All Skiers should Know

Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:56:14 GMT

Hi,
I am a new member! I think I have the correct answer.

Here it is;
1. 12
2 456
5. 6768
4697

Bye