Latest posts for the topic "Ski insurance restrictions"

Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 10:32:25 GMT

Article from the Daily Mail On-line may interest you all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/holidays/article-2531916/No-insurance-skiers-tipple-hit-slopes.html?ito=email-homenewsletter-20140101

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 10:51:02 GMT

Insurance companies will use every trick in the book not to pay up. Drinking & skiing in the Austrian resorts is so accepted especially with the Northern Europeans. I would argue that if the ski stations are selling alcohol on the mountain to skiers then they are advocating it is okay to ski under the influence.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 11:32:51 GMT

The Mail quotes: "Hundreds of deaths on the slopes each year are linked to alcohol"
REALLY? I had no idea there were that many deaths on the slopes each year. Or is this just the Daily Mail at its best again?

Everyone likes to have a social life whilst skiing, and lunch and drinks are part of that. Some people prefer a quick lunch and back out on the slopes asap whilst the long lunchers get off the slopes for several hours. Personally, I cant eat much at lunchtime anyway, although some refueling carbs are always a good idea, and I like to be out over lunch while everyone else has cleared the slopes for their break.
But I doubt I have ever drunk more than 2 pints over lunch, thats just a waste of VST (valuable ski time) to me.

BUT, I do like to finish somewhere on the mountain late in the day, have a drink or two in the late afternoon sun sat outside a hut, and as the sun goes down ski off into the resort so I guess I would be over the limit to drive at that time of the day, and therefore one has to question ones own serious judgement after a few drinks when skiing off.

Very interesting topic to discuss.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 11:41:48 GMT

Couldn't agree more Tony, a Weiss bier & apple strudle watching the late afternoon go by are part of my skiing ritual. Don't think we are being irresponsible or reckless but I'm sure the insurance companies would'nt see it that way.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:22:46 GMT

Finn wrote:Couldn't agree more Tony, a Weiss bier & apple strudle watching the late afternoon go by are part of my skiing ritual. Don't think we are being irresponsible or reckless but I'm sure the insurance companies would'nt see it that way.

My insurance is void if the use of alcohol results in the accident directly or indirectly.
I guess it would be the doctors that decide that one.
But given the fact that i don't ski pissed i would hope that any alcohol in my blood would be significantly less by the time any test could be made.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:34:36 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:
But given the fact that i don't ski pissed i would hope that any alcohol in my blood would be significantly less by the time any test could be made.

Modern science is quite capable of backtracking your alcohol level knowing the time of accident and time of test.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:39:50 GMT

Far Queue wrote:

Snapzzz wrote:
But given the fact that i don't ski pissed i would hope that any alcohol in my blood would be significantly less by the time any test could be made.

Modern science is quite capable of backtracking your alcohol level knowing the time of accident and time of test.

Well if that were solid surely the police would use that when prosecuting drink drivers? As far as i know they take a reading from the machine, in the station, at the time of the test. So it can't be an exact science......can it?

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:40:54 GMT

-) would you be happy to argue that with your insurance company?

Snapzzz wrote:Well if that were solid surely the police would use that when prosecuting drink drivers? As far as i know they take a reading from the machine, in the station, at the time of the test. So it can't be an exact science......can it?

Actually a quick google suggests that they do back calculate :(

Example of a Derbyshire Police form here.. BackCalculationinDrinkDrivingCases.pdf

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:50:51 GMT

Far Queue wrote: -) would you be happy to argue that with your insurance company?

Im not sure it would ever come to that really.
2 Pints max isn't going to make me reckless or stink of alcohol so I'm not sure i would give any doctor any reason to to test for it.
I think clauses like that are for those that party hard at places like the folio douce and ski back to resort legless. In which case they deserve to have claims refused.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:52:50 GMT

Far Queue wrote: -) would you be happy to argue that with your insurance company?

Snapzzz wrote:Well if that were solid surely the police would use that when prosecuting drink drivers? As far as i know they take a reading from the machine, in the station, at the time of the test. So it can't be an exact science......can it?

Actually a quick google suggests that they do back calculate :(

Example of a Derbyshire Police form here.. BackCalculationinDrinkDrivingCases.pdf

Bloody google has an answer for everything!

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 15:03:07 GMT

A really lazy piece of 'journalism', same old regurgitated stuff with little substance that isn't common sense. Doesn't sound as if the writer knows one end of a ski from the other.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 15:53:26 GMT

My answer is don't get drunk on a piste full of snow and don't piss on a drunk that falls in the snow.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 16:14:56 GMT

I don't drink during a ski day, but will have a last run gluhwein at the top. By then the slopes are empty, and there is less threat. It is also the time of day, when the piste patrols need an extra bod or two.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 20:25:54 GMT

A couple of the guys in our chalet were enjoying themselves in La Folie Douce last week. Apparently one heavily inebriated patron was intending to ski back down to La Daille at 5pm but was instead 'helped' by a couple of staff to get into the telecabin.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:11:29 GMT

I helped the liftie load two Irish guys into the gondola one time, and we debated should we put them in separate gondelas, but elected to put them in together, with an external marker bar.

There are different aspects to the drink issue here. Most people are thinking capability, whereas the police and insurance companies are thinking culpability.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Thu, 2 Jan 2014 00:12:36 GMT

Aptly and intelligently put Dave Mac. That is good thinking because, as in driving, most people assume they are still capable of avoiding an obstacle (pedestrian, biker, skier etc) after having a few drinks and then, unfortunately, sometimes facing the reality of failure afterwards. The sad thing is the innocent victim involved who sometimes comes off worse, which is unforgivable if the perpetrator was tipsy at the time. By all means enjoy a drink but always consider REALISTICALLY how much you can take before it affects your true capability. Remember, Dutch courage will make you think you can ski as fast (or even better) than you normally do, but are your reflexes still fast enough to avoid an unexpected incident that could leave more than just yourself incapacitated......and expensively out of pocket if culpability is proven to be your fault!

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Thu, 2 Jan 2014 13:43:36 GMT

In my view if your insurance states this then they will try to wriggle out of a claim if there is ANY alcohol taken.
I have just had an insurance claim turned down on a TINY technicality that was not even relevant. So I don't trust insurance companies at all.
There is plenty of evidence that points to the fact that ANY alcohol impairs. In my view they will absolutely use this not to pay a claim. For me it simply isn't worth the risk of being uninsured.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:25:23 GMT

You have to look at it from the claim handler's point of view, not yours. This is particularly the case where the claim handling is outsourced by the insurer e.g. the AA outsource to Drakefield Insurance Services, which is a completely different organisation. The handler will usually be a relatively young, often badly-paid clerk, who is bonused on minimising the payout. An outsourced or separate claims company will also be incentivised to pay out as little as legally possible. They hold the money that you want, so they're in a position of power. If you are even slightly over the legal limit then you can be 100% sure your claim will be rejected. Even if it's not necessarily your fault. Any claims handler will be on the lookout for any possible exclusion - just like in a driving accident here in the UK. Ignoring any moral issues around being drunk and skiing, the financial damage you risk by drinking too much is substantial. It just seems sensible to do the same as you (surely) would do at home and leave more than a glass of wine / beer 'till the evening.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Thu, 2 Jan 2014 20:10:35 GMT

Yes Tony most folk do like to have a social life, but that gives you the right to ski while seriously under the influence of alcohol...?
I think not, have you ever tried having a social life without getting pissed up and taking the chance of killing or seriously injuring another person, who might just be a child who happens to have the bad luck to be in the path of an alcoholic skier, if you accept you would be over the limit to drive why is it then acceptable to ski in the same state..?
as for the others on this forum who think along the lines of it's ok to drink and ski then you all need to have a reality check!!

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Thu, 2 Jan 2014 21:04:56 GMT

tspill wrote:In my view if your insurance states this then they will try to wriggle out of a claim if there is ANY alcohol taken.
I have just had an insurance claim turned down on a TINY technicality that was not even relevant. So I don't trust insurance companies at all.
There is plenty of evidence that points to the fact that ANY alcohol impairs. In my view they will absolutely use this not to pay a claim. For me it simply isn't worth the risk of being uninsured.

Tspill, your insurance company should have provided you with a complaints/appeals procedure. If they have not done so, they are committing an offence. Basically just keep appealing until you reach the point where the appeal goes independent. If you feel that you are in the right, an independent reviewer, (normally an ombudsman), will have to take a fair view. It costs the companies a lot of money to deal with an ombudsman, and that is the point where you may get movement ~ ie prior to ombudsman action.

Keep your appeals short, and relevant. Ask plenty of questions that need work to find out the answers. If they are slow to respond, in all subsequent mailings, list their slow responses.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Thu, 2 Jan 2014 21:09:15 GMT

We should not expect European police to act any differently from our own. They will apply the law. The UK Blood Alcohol Limit is 0.08%, generally one to one and a half pints.

For Austria, Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland, it is 0.05%. Less than one beer?

If you are going to Socchi, don't drink at all, the limit in Russia is zero.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Thu, 2 Jan 2014 22:38:42 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:

tspill wrote:In my view if your insurance states this then they will try to wriggle out of a claim if there is ANY alcohol taken.
I have just had an insurance claim turned down on a TINY technicality that was not even relevant. So I don't trust insurance companies at all.
There is plenty of evidence that points to the fact that ANY alcohol impairs. In my view they will absolutely use this not to pay a claim. For me it simply isn't worth the risk of being uninsured.

Tspill, your insurance company should have provided you with a complaints/appeals procedure. If they have not done so, they are committing an offence. Basically just keep appealing until you reach the point where the appeal goes independent. If you feel that you are in the right, an independent reviewer, (normally an ombudsman), will have to take a fair view. It costs the companies a lot of money to deal with an ombudsman, and that is the point where you may get movement ~ ie prior to ombudsman action.

Keep your appeals short, and relevant. Ask plenty of questions that need work to find out the answers. If they are slow to respond, in all subsequent mailings, list their slow responses.

As I said, there was a small technicality where we didn't conform to the policy. And that is the point - insurance companies are saying that you can not drink on the slopes and then ski. Hence if you have an accident they will absolutely use this NOT to pay.
You need to conform exactly to every letter of any insurance policy to be safe.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Fri, 3 Jan 2014 01:41:31 GMT

FYI if you are over 70 then make sure you get ski insurance BEFORE you reach the ski pass office because they won't give slope insurance to over 70's (at least not in Andorra). I take the easy way out and just don't drink when I ski (or drive) - sounds boring but to me it sounds sensible.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Fri, 3 Jan 2014 20:37:25 GMT

Is it illegal to have alcohol in your system when skiing? There may well be a moral argument to support this but there isn't a legal one as far as I can tell, i dont think drink driving limits can be applied to skiing. You could be done for reckless endangerment by the police but you would have to be really pissed. UK Gov travel website has no guidance on alcohol limit when skiing.
This is your holiday, having a pint at lunch or before the last run of the day is not reckless behaviour having six pints & four jager tees would be.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Fri, 3 Jan 2014 20:41:13 GMT

Finn wrote:Is it illegal to have alcohol in your system when skiing? There may well be a moral argument to support this but there isn't a legal one as far as I can tell, i dont think drink driving limits can be applied to skiing. You could be done for reckless endangerment by the police but you would have to be really pissed. UK Gov travel website has no guidance on alcohol limit when skiing.
This is your holiday, having a pint at lunch or before the last run of the day is not reckless behaviour having six pints & four jager tees would be.

Totally agree Finn.
But We aren't talking about the law of the land here, we are at the mercy of the T&C's of your insurance.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 11:39:47 GMT

Brianmcn wrote:Yes Tony most folk do like to have a social life, but that gives you the right to ski while seriously under the influence of alcohol...?
I think not, have you ever tried having a social life without getting pissed up and taking the chance of killing or seriously injuring another person, who might just be a child who happens to have the bad luck to be in the path of an alcoholic skier, if you accept you would be over the limit to drive why is it then acceptable to ski in the same state..?
as for the others on this forum who think along the lines of it's ok to drink and ski then you all need to have a reality check!!

Wo steady on. Where did I say anything about ME getting "pissed up"? Quite the opposite in fact, I actually said (if you read it correctly) that I have never had more than 2 pints over lunch, and in fact thats probably more likely to be a pint of shandy at the most.
I'm actually in the camp for saying you SHOULDN'T ski while under the influence, but I think theres a lot of us who like to stop at the last hut and have a couple of drinks before skiing the last run off, carefully, and when its pretty deserted to be fair.
As for alcoholic skiing - I think you need to visit the big famous apres resorts like St Anton, Val d'Isere, Verbier, Ischgl, Solden, Meribel, Saalbach etc where there are well known drinking huts up the mountain and start your own individual campaign for not drinking and skiing. See how you get on with the local workers and tourist board alike. However, I do agree that drinking for the sake of drinking and skiing don't mix, and in fact in Mayrhofen I have witnessed many many German, Scandinavian and Dutch men skiing after a long long liquid lunch.
In fact, our friends at WTSS often write about their (in my opinion unnecessarily) long lunches and alcoholic accompaniments.

There is a grey area, as it is not an offence to drink under the influence, although we all have a duty of care and safety to everyone else, and therefore need to think about what we are drinking up there.

And what I meant about it being social - many people like myself ski with a group, and its part of the social side of skiing to stop and have a beer late in the day, probably a coffee in the morning, although I know a few ladies in particular who like a couple of gluhweins at the 10.30 morning stop and who in fact claim they ski far better once they've had them!!!!

Each to his own, but as always, I think its wise to avoid excess, or to bang on to people about doing it to excess when in fact they don't, if you get me Brian?

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 11:43:57 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:

Finn wrote:Is it illegal to have alcohol in your system when skiing? There may well be a moral argument to support this but there isn't a legal one as far as I can tell, i dont think drink driving limits can be applied to skiing. You could be done for reckless endangerment by the police but you would have to be really pissed. UK Gov travel website has no guidance on alcohol limit when skiing.
This is your holiday, having a pint at lunch or before the last run of the day is not reckless behaviour having six pints & four jager tees would be.

Totally agree Finn.
But We aren't talking about the law of the land here, we are at the mercy of the T&C's of your insurance.

To me, this is the key point. Insurance companies will use anything at all to get out of a claim. They are a law to themselves. And on a mountain I for one don't want to take any risks so simply don't drink at all on the slopes (and haven't done so for a few years for this very reason). It doesn't matter from this perspective what others do or don't do - I don't want to risk being un-insured.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 11:47:34 GMT

tspill wrote:

Snapzzz wrote:

Finn wrote:Is it illegal to have alcohol in your system when skiing? There may well be a moral argument to support this but there isn't a legal one as far as I can tell, i dont think drink driving limits can be applied to skiing. You could be done for reckless endangerment by the police but you would have to be really pissed. UK Gov travel website has no guidance on alcohol limit when skiing.
This is your holiday, having a pint at lunch or before the last run of the day is not reckless behaviour having six pints & four jager tees would be.

Totally agree Finn.
But We aren't talking about the law of the land here, we are at the mercy of the T&C's of your insurance.

To me, this is the key point. Insurance companies will use anything at all to get out of a claim. They are a law to themselves. And on a mountain I for one don't want to take any risks so simply don't drink at all on the slopes (and haven't done so for a few years for this very reason). It doesn't matter from this perspective what others do or don't do - I don't want to risk being un-insured.

Very sensible approach, lets just hope you dont run into the idiot who has had the 6 pints and 4 jager tees.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 12:00:01 GMT

Watched Snow, Sex and Suspicious Parents ( just for the skiing bits you understand) and I was shocked at just how drunk these kids were in the bars.
Literally incapable of putting their skis on. Which was probably best for other slope users because they had to take the gondola down.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 15:27:45 GMT

So in the event of an accident do the medical staff in ski countries routinely test for alcohol or just if they suspect someone involved in the accident is pissed? I do like a small beer at lunchtime sometimes and I don't want to get breathalised if some other muppet crashes in to me!

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:16:35 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

tspill wrote:

Snapzzz wrote:

Finn wrote:Is it illegal to have alcohol in your system when skiing? There may well be a moral argument to support this but there isn't a legal one as far as I can tell, i dont think drink driving limits can be applied to skiing. You could be done for reckless endangerment by the police but you would have to be really pissed. UK Gov travel website has no guidance on alcohol limit when skiing.
This is your holiday, having a pint at lunch or before the last run of the day is not reckless behaviour having six pints & four jager tees would be.

Totally agree Finn.
But We aren't talking about the law of the land here, we are at the mercy of the T&C's of your insurance.

To me, this is the key point. Insurance companies will use anything at all to get out of a claim. They are a law to themselves. And on a mountain I for one don't want to take any risks so simply don't drink at all on the slopes (and haven't done so for a few years for this very reason). It doesn't matter from this perspective what others do or don't do - I don't want to risk being un-insured.

Very sensible approach, lets just hope you dont run into the idiot who has had the 6 pints and 4 jager tees.

Unfortunately that is something difficult to avoid.

Two years ago there was a girl skiing extremely quickly on a blue. She caught the back of my skis and must have tumbles 50 yards down the slope while I was OK :) You always het idiots skiing inappropriately (whether with or without alcohol).

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sat, 4 Jan 2014 23:51:18 GMT

This is from Aviva's ski safety guide:

DON'T drink and ski.
A glass of wine or beer with your lunch is fine.
Excess alcohol will slow your reactions and affect your observation and balance.

http://www.aviva.co.uk/news-and-guides/travel-tips/skiing-safely/

They do realise that you are on holiday, alcohol consumption would need to be deemed reckless for it to effect a claim. Keep it sensible and you won't have a problem.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sun, 5 Jan 2014 00:23:09 GMT

Tony_H wrote...I know a few ladies in particular who like a couple of gluhweins at the 10.30 morning stop and who in fact claim they ski far better once they've had them!!!!

Most women seem to get better at some of the things men get worse at after a few drinks but I'll try to stick to skiing for now. When a woman claims she gets better at skiing after a drink or two then what she means is that her inhibitions have been reduced and her fear is also diminished. This actually applies to anyone who has a drink and not just to women. However, what they fail to realise is that their skiing skills do not improve, they are actually impaired and the combination of increased confidence coupled with diminished capability can be quite precarious. My advice to anyone skiing after a drink or two is to make an extra effort to allow for your possible slowed reactions and slow your pace down as well as giving twice as much room to other skiers than you would do normally. It's pretty much what you would expect yourself if you hadn't consumed any alcohol.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sun, 5 Jan 2014 07:39:35 GMT

Come on admin step in here! 'Insurance' is becoming almost as bad as the 'N' word!!!

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sun, 5 Jan 2014 09:49:53 GMT

Robin in Spain wrote:Tony_H wrote...I know a few ladies in particular who like a couple of gluhweins at the 10.30 morning stop and who in fact claim they ski far better once they've had them!!!!
When a woman claims she gets better at skiing after a drink or two then what she means is that her inhibitions have been reduced and her fear is also diminished.However, what they fail to realise is that their skiing skills do not improve, they are actually impaired and the combination of increased confidence coupled with diminished capability can be quite precarious.

I see your point there but at the risk of sounding argumentative i would suggest that in some situations the removal of that fear is a good thing. Some people have unfounded or over active anxiety that can really hold them back and in some situations leave them standing in the centre of a busy slope panicking.

1 shot for dutch courage is fine by me, a couple of years ago Mrs snapzzz was taking 4mg of Vallium before hitting the slopes such was her fear of people slamming into her at high speed. Once that edge was taken away she enjoyed her day.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sun, 5 Jan 2014 21:32:05 GMT

I think this thread has been pretty well covered now - I start off for my skiing holiday on Wednesday, driving to Andorra. Enjoy your skiing folks.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sun, 5 Jan 2014 22:41:51 GMT

I'm slightly confused here. What is the "N" word?

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Sun, 5 Jan 2014 23:04:30 GMT

Ditto Dave Mac. Could it be 'No Snow'? Now that is a bad word!

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Mon, 6 Jan 2014 14:52:02 GMT

Robin in Spain wrote:Ditto Dave Mac. Could it be 'No Snow'? Now that is a bad word!

Nah, couldn't possibly mean that, Robin, there is snow everywhere. And all snow is good snow.....

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:21:52 GMT

Not sure the Americans would agree with you just now Dave, I doubt there's many calling the snow they have 'good snow'. Still no wiser on the 'N' word BTW, have you found out what it is?

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:57:07 GMT

Robin in Spain wrote: Still no wiser on the 'N' word BTW, have you found out what it is?

:roll: Newbies.

Re:Ski insurance restrictions

Tue, 7 Jan 2014 11:25:13 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:I'm slightly confused here. What is the "N" word?

I think you might just now the answer to that one -)