Latest posts for the topic "Unauthorised absence of children"

Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 09:36:48 GMT

I would be interested to hear views on the Governments latest policy which has now made it impossible (or near impossible) to grant absence for children for holidays in term time. Do you think this is going to have an adverse affect on the tourism industry of European ski resorts by focussing the activity into a week after xmas and half term. Interestingly I heard a story the other day that a local school had done a risk assessment for their ski trip and decided not to go at half term as it was too busy and thus the risk of accidents was that much higher!

Thanks all

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:10:19 GMT

Most certainly it will effect the ski business. Tour operators may have to look at their rates at peak periods for one. I used to take my son low season January for cheaper rates or first week March for a bit of sun, now its Xmas. There is only so much capacity also.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 10:49:27 GMT

It'll definitely make holidays much more difficult to book during school holidays, expecting pretty much everywhere to be absolutely packed!

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 11:29:51 GMT

We have two teenage children and have always holidayed during the official holidays (although we did take our youngest out of school for the last two days before the last summer hols)

As a parent, the only real motivation for avoiding school hols is to reduce costs. We've now skied over Christmas, over New Year and at Easter. No real problems encountered with crowds or difficulties with booking. We do book our accommodation and flights well in advance though.

I've never been convinced about taking children out of school for holidays (unless at primary school age)

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:02:17 GMT

Personally I welcome that they are cracking down on this but they will never stamp it out.

I don't have kids and that is MY choice - this means I can go skiing or on other holidays at times to suit me, at less cost and wont be bothered by other people's kids in the chalet/hotel/flight etc

Will enforcement affect the holiday industry? - maybe, but less than you may think. Lots of operators actively promote that their chalets do not allow children outside of school holiday weeks. It stands to reason that they do this because their is a large market for people who want "child free" ski weeks

Basically the market provides for demand....

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:55:31 GMT

I normally ask politly first and if they do not authorise I will take them out any how ....... let the goverment fine me or do their best to me ......... I have no guilt taking my child out of school, she has no sickness and apart from exam time I will continue to do what I have have done over the past eight years. :thumbup:

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 20:48:35 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:I normally ask politly first and if they do not authorise I will take them out any how ....... let the goverment fine me or do their best to me ......... I have no guilt taking my child out of school, she has no sickness and apart from exam time I will continue to do what I have have done over the past eight years. :thumbup:

Couldn't have put it better myself.
I always take my daughter out of school to take advantage of the cheaper fares. In doing such we can afford to take multiple holidays (only one in school time) a year which gives us valuable, uninterrupted family time. And a quality family life is just as important as quality education.

Oh and don't forget the pending strikes.....thats a day in the bank!!!

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 20:50:00 GMT

Adam67 wrote: Tour operators may have to look at their rates at peak periods for one.

They will crank the prices even higher to cope with increased demand.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 21:43:21 GMT

I hate to be the one to defend the government but the law referred to has been in effect for at least five years. It is true that it is vertually impossible for children to have authorised absence, this has been the case for as I say at least five years.
Will it effect the ski industry I think not, if it was going to it would have by now. As for school ski trips I hope they continue as this is for many pupils a rare opportunity to be introduced to the great sport of skiing.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 22:29:18 GMT

As others have said, it has been the case for a number years that absence for holidays will be marked 'unauthorised'.

But just because it not authorised, it doesn't mean you can't choose to take them them out. That is parental choice. We just advise the head teacher of the relevant dates that they won't be in school.

The first time we took ours out we did "ask". The head teacher replied, "Sorry family holidays during term time cannot be authorised by the school. Yours Sinc. Mrs Head. PS Have a nice time!"

What does become a problem is too many days missed, then it becomes 'persistent absence' and you'll probably be under investigation by the school/authorities. Our school sets 19 days missed as 'persistent'.

As for kids affecting 'adults' enjoyment of holidays, yes some might whinge & run a-mock, but in my experience plenty adults are as bad if not worse and more offensive. My kids will give many adults a lesson in dining etiquette and manners.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Mon, 16 Sep 2013 22:45:57 GMT

I had a nasty letter from the school once, threatening me with jail etc. because my older daughter's attendance rate was only 80%.
The reason for this was because she'd been very ill, and she'd had many visits to the hospital and GP etc. and she was 'under' the paediatrician. And all her absences were 'authorized' as in I had written to the school on each occasion and explained that she was ill.

So - as someone else said what really matters is the total school attendance rate your kids have, and if it drops below the minimum level then you may well be investigated by the local authorities and get a visit from a social worker or someone like that.

I complained about my letter, to the headmistress and she said she didn't know anything about it, but I pointed out that her signature was on the bottom of the letter! And they never did put me in jail or anything, thank goodness.

And when my kids were young (and healthy) I did used to take them out of school for 5 days per year to go ski-ing, and I'm quite sure their education never suffered from this at all :)

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 10:38:31 GMT

Now that my children have grown up and left home, I actively holiday out of school holiday periods, summer as well as winter. The peak weeks when families tend to ski are ridiculously expensive, its the same in the summer with sun holidays.
Personally, we used to take our kids on holiday when it suited us, not some jumped up bureaucrat, and when we could afford to.
If this legislation scares more families off taking their kids away out of school time thats good by me, but I sympathise with those who have kids.
I'd hate to pay 3 times the amount just to go when the slopes, airports, roads, hotels etc are packed beyond capacity and see no fun at all in that kind of holiday.

As for enforcing any fines, I am not entirely sure how a school can try to do this.

Funnily enough, school trips dont seem to be affected as they claim this as part of the education, so why cant a parent take their child skiing and claim the same?

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 10:42:52 GMT

Thanks guys some interesting points coming through. My own view is that it will have an affect on the slopes - some will welcome that - less kids on the slopes but others will feel the pinch especially people with rental properties who are not seeing a consistent rental period but spikes for the half term and Christmas periods - expect to see larger apartments up for sale?? I also think it worked perfectly well before and do not for the life of me understand how people who take their kids out for a family holiday are now being placed in the same category as those parents who don't give a monkeys whether their kids attend school or not or kids who break their 'parole' and hang out on the streets when they have been banned from school - that's not right and it greatly annoys me - I for one will not be voting for the Party who brought that piece of legislation in - alienate the lower-middle classes at your peril Mr Gove - rant over, thanks all

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:56:26 GMT

It's not the school that fines it's the courts via social services, the EWO. However the government eas trying to set up a system so the schools could issue fines, how this would work I don't know and the schools would not welcome this.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:51:52 GMT

One day the kids grow up and then you have the luxury of paying less and enjoying a holiday without children in tow and the only ones on the slopes are nothing to do with you.
Just got there.
Can't wait.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 15:54:41 GMT

Dids1 wrote:One day the kids grow up and then you have the luxury of paying less and enjoying a holiday without children in tow and the only ones on the slopes are nothing to do with you.
Just got there.
Can't wait.

Welcome to my world 8)

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 16:39:14 GMT

I work in a Bank and only 2 people are allowed off at any time. Considering 85% of the staff have children of school age you can imagine that they have no choice but to take time out of the official holidays. I haven't been skiing in the holidays since mine left school and whilst its nowhere near as busy and there always seem to be a number of school age kids. I don't think the travel industry will ever lower the prices-not while people are willing to pay the price!

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 17:27:08 GMT

According to this, parents will be fined GBP60 by the Local Authority for a child's unauthorized absence from school if they pay within 21 days, and GBP120 if they pay within 28 days.

I suppose there could be lots of other unauthorized reasons that parents want to pull their kids out of school - like babysitting younger siblings, working on the farm, caring for a relative etc. etc. And I suppose the government is trying to crack down on all of these, including absence for ski holidays.
When my kids were young we were allowed to take them out of school for family holidays of up to 10 days per year, if we couldn't take the holiday at any other time - and I used to fill in a form to make sure these holiday absences were authorized before we went. It seems the law has changed.

http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/pupilsupport/behaviour/attendance/a00223868/regulations-amendments

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:14:59 GMT

Its actually worse than that - it is GBP60 per parent per pupil! Agree AllyG the 10 day rule worked perfectly - this was the law until September this year when they removed the 'family holiday' clause from the authorised absence section - this means schools are unable to authorise absence for 'family holidays' by law and pass it on as unauthorised absence to the local authority - who presumably then issue a penalty notice - this is all theoretical at the moment but will let you know what happens in January when we are due to go

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:31:42 GMT

J Webb wrote:Its actually worse than that - it is GBP60 per parent per pupil!

You mean - if there are 2 parents for one child with an unauthorized absence the fine is GBP120? It sounds as bad as the Inland Revenue!

I guess this will only encourage us all to become liars and cheats :(

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 18:48:54 GMT

So based on those figures, the fine is rarely going to exceed the savings made by going away on holiday in term time rather than school holidays.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 20:51:37 GMT

Well that's what happens when idiots vote labour

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Tue, 17 Sep 2013 20:54:56 GMT

If it's any consolation other European countries have similar laws that make it almost impossible to obtain authorised absence from school for family holidays. The fines for unauthorised absence are usually much higher than those that have been recently introduced in the UK, in Germany parents can be fined up to Euro1000 for taking a child out of school without authorisation.

I doubt if this will have a measurable effect on the European ski tourism business as the number of people affected compared to the overall number of people taking skiing holidays in Europe is negligible. The UK is thought to have about a million skiers whereas France is reported to have 12 million and Germany 11 million. It may however affect the TOs that specialise in family holidays.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Wed, 18 Sep 2013 19:24:50 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

Dids1 wrote:One day the kids grow up and then you have the luxury of paying less and enjoying a holiday without children in tow and the only ones on the slopes are nothing to do with you.
Just got there.
Can't wait.

Welcome to my world 8)

I have gone over to the dark side -)
:D

I didn't think many (UK) schools took time out in term time to go skiing..most seem to go half term or Easter.

There was an interview on radio today with a woman fined GBP360 for taking her kids outl of school to go to Florida, but not sure if the fine was for the choice of destination or the fact they missed school time as I forgot to listen.

I will see if I can find the article somewhere

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 07:57:50 GMT

I think my daughter has quite a severe cold brewing.....poor girl will be in bed for a week by Jan i think.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 09:08:48 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:I think my daughter has quite a severe cold brewing.....poor girl will be in bed for a week by Jan i think.

And a dose of mountain air will be exactly what she needs. -)

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 09:48:04 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:I think my daughter has quite a severe cold brewing.....poor girl will be in bed for a week by Jan i think.

And a dose of mountain air will be exactly what she needs.

Then because she has been sick for more than 3 days you will need a doctors note -)

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:02:35 GMT

Dids1 wrote:

There was an interview on radio today with a woman fined GBP360 for taking her kids outl of school to go to Florida, but not sure if the fine was for the choice of destination or the fact they missed school time as I forgot to listen.

I will see if I can find the article somewhere

haha, I tend to agree.

Thing is, how can they actually fine her? Its all well and good sending her a letter telling her they propose to fine her, but how do they enforce it? They cant take money without her permission, and it would need to go to court to be potentially enforced surely, and that would take time and money the education authority/school don't (apparently) have????

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:27:38 GMT

bald-eagleman wrote:

Snapzzz wrote:I think my daughter has quite a severe cold brewing.....poor girl will be in bed for a week by Jan i think.

And a dose of mountain air will be exactly what she needs.

Then because she has been sick for more than 3 days you will need a doctors note -)

Our docs wont issue a note in the first 7 days so they can whistle for that one......plus i am sure the docs will have something to say about that as they have enough to do.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 16:45:43 GMT

I work in a secondary school that rarely authorises holidays in term times......yet I can tell you that many of our children are still taken out in term time with no apparent action taken against them. I have never been able to go myself in term time therefore my chidren have never missed school for holidays. Except possibly for years 10 and 11 and important yearly exams I see no issue with parents taking their children on holiday.. On the subject of fines.......February half term this year cost me GBP300 per person more than the week before a total of GBP1200. A fine of GBP60 per parent per child would have cost me GBP120 for my school age child.....no brainer.....if only I didn't work in a school tho. Keen skiers will always find the money so even if the costs are raised during non holiday timesI don't think the industry will suffer.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:15:17 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

Thing is, how can they actually fine her? Its all well and good sending her a letter telling her they propose to fine her, but how do they enforce it?

you answer it yourself

you wrote: it would need to go to court to be potentially enforced

that's precisely what they will do, no different from any other statutory fine (say speeding or parking or litter dropping or smoking).

They don't have to issue the letter, that part is at their discretion, but once they have I suspect its too late..start preparing a defence (or pay-up).

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:18:11 GMT

Well all I can say I am glad my kids did their time a while back. I'd love to see them enforce something through the courts which isnt actually a criminal offence.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:19:47 GMT

michelle63 wrote: Except possibly for years 10 and 11 and important yearly exams I see no issue with parents taking their children on holiday..

Cool teacher 8)
All teaching professionals should be skiers, then they would all be understanding

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:50:54 GMT

smartski wrote:

michelle63 wrote: Except possibly for years 10 and 11 and important yearly exams I see no issue with parents taking their children on holiday..

Cool teacher 8)
All teaching professionals should be skiers, then they would all be understanding

Totally agree - I am that teacher (Sounds like I belong to AA or have watched the film Spartacus too many times)

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Thu, 19 Sep 2013 20:21:00 GMT

We're not allowed to take our kids out of school for holidays (ski-ing or whatever), in Wales any more. You may get a penalty notice and if you don't pay it then you will be prosecuted in the magistrates court.

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/34484/

Any holidays taken will be put down as unauthorised absence and now, under reinforced Welsh Government rules, parents can be hit with fixed-penalty notices of up to GBP120 per child for pulling them out of school. The Consortium, made up of six local authority education directors, decided last month that "all absences caused due to pupils being taken on holiday during term time should be deemed to be unauthorised".

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Fri, 20 Sep 2013 14:28:24 GMT

Another money making excercise from our loverly Government ....... they can't afford to run the speed cameras any more so a good way to raise some funds to supplement their expenses. -)

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Sat, 21 Sep 2013 10:12:24 GMT

We ski for two weeks in February one week is half term so always take my daughter out of school. I never ask...I always inform the school telling them I am aware of it being unauthorised and have never had any comeback,but then again my child is never off sick. I will not be dictated too regarding,y child education is more than sitting in school.

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Sat, 21 Sep 2013 12:25:25 GMT

Bang on Kelly, good for you

Re:Unauthorised absence of children

Sat, 21 Sep 2013 12:57:09 GMT

Hang on ....
There has to be some benefit to having suffered too many years of school holiday holidays not to benefit from lower prices and quieter slopes now The Lout has gone!