Latest posts for the topic "Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie"

Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sat, 10 Nov 2012 20:15:36 GMT

It's another of those eternal questions in ski travel, ski or board? fondue or raclette? hat or helmet? ...and of course plane or train?

Fans of rail travel to the mountains have long argued that you can get from central London to some of the best known areas in the Alps as quickly by rail as you can flying, and with a lot less stress.

Now two ski journalists, Neil English and Daniel Elkan, have put the theory to the test with a race from London to Meribel battle, each aiming to be the first to reach Fish & Pips chalet and be the first to be sipping champagne in the hot tub.

Neil's route was a flight from Gatwick to Geneva and then a private minibus transfer, while Daniel, who is the co-founder of the snowcarbon.com website which promotes rail travel to the Alps, caught a Eurostar to Paris, changed stations and then took a TGV down to Moutiers, from where it is a 20-minute taxi ride to Meribel.

A cameraman followed each journalist, the film captures the drama, frustration and banter - exposing the advantages and limitations of each mode of transport.

"As a kid, I used to take the train to ski resorts with my family," said Neil English. "I loved it, it was always so exciting. But when Daniel challenged me to a race, I was up for proving that however enjoyable train travel might be, the plane is a lot faster."

"There plenty of ski resorts in the the Alps that you can reach as quickly by train as you can by plane if you live near London," says Daniel Elkan. "The conventional wisdom says that flying is much quicker, but measured door-to-door, that is a complete myth."

While there is also a direct ski train from London to the 3 Valleys, the slightly longer, indirect (via Paris) route was chosen deliberately because equivalent journeys can be made to resorts all over the Alps. "Only one region of France has the direct Ski Train from London but many other ski regions are accessible by Eurostar + TGV just as quickly, so this race has relevance to many regions and resorts," says Elkan. "And these journeys are comfortable, easy and fun."

"As a region, we want skiers to be aware of all their travel options. Travelling by train can make the journey part of the holiday," says Vincent Lalanne, director of Les 3 Vallees Association. "The film highlights the fact that these indirect routes are perfectly viable - so as well as an exciting race, it helps inform skiers about their travel options."

The film can be viewed on the homepage of www.snowcarbon.co.uk where you can see who won.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sat, 10 Nov 2012 20:59:58 GMT

Thanks very much for that - it was most amusing!

But I couldn't get your link to work - so here's another one:

http://snowcarbon.co.uk/blog/plane-vs-train-race-alps

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sat, 10 Nov 2012 22:56:40 GMT

I went by train to France for skiing. I can see the advantage of squeezing extra days skiing in.
However I won't be doing it again. Ever.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 05:40:37 GMT

It's not for all that's for sure. We always offer it as an option and a few (me included) usually take it up.
Bottom line for me is if I'm only having 1 week as I am this season, being able to do 8 days on the slope rather than 6 it's a no brainier.
But it isn't a particularly pleasant experience, sleep is very hard to come by. But then neither is air travel.
On the plus side there aren't the same limits on luggage, so I can take a few extra bits and pieces.
Food wise we each take a course or a suitable liquid accumpliment, so that turns into a bit of a banquet.
The alternative is grabbing a couple of hours sleep before getting down to Gatwick for a 4am check in, (leaving Norwich around midnight), then enduring the 'hurry up and wait' that is air travel.
I do like the sense of travelling you get with the train, of always being on the move. With air travel, being sat at an airport for 2 hours prior to an 1.5 hour flight has always struck me as a bit ridiculous. Then there's the transfer he other end, you are still a long way away. With the train, the last bit is a short hop, 50 mins for us this year.
Try it if you haven't before, some will like it and keep going back, some will hate the experience, hate me for suggesting it, and never use the train again...

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:00:53 GMT

Well - I am giving the train a punt this year. For the same reason as Andy; 8 days and not 6!

Going the overnight way so a longer journey time wise but hopefully not too painful and will be worthwile.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:35:32 GMT

Ooo I loved it! How exciting!

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:16:01 GMT

Me too..I went snowtrain in January and really enjoyed the experience...as Andy says better than getting up at some ungodly hour to be herded like cattle into a tin can and then to have to wait at some airport with hundreds of other "customers" (cattle) for the next plain to arrive and then have a 3 hour coach journey...and to have to endure the same on return...

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 17:27:25 GMT

I think it depends on where you live. For us 45 min to Bournemouth and then into Geneva means we could be in a Grand massif or Portes de Soleil resort in between 6 and 7 hours from our door.

Train means 30 mins to the station, 2.5 hrs to Waterloo, time across London, then check-in etc, so probably barely in France in 7 hours.

We often fly out Friday instead and get the extra day that way, with a night in a cheapish hotel in resort on the Friday.

BTW, I ran two of tghe chalets in that first photo with my better half. They are superbly located!

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:54:20 GMT

Why would anybody want to to travel to the alps by train it is bad enough by air, I am thinking about driving again this year :thumbup:

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:01:38 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:Why would anybody want to to travel to the alps by train it is bad enough by air, I am thinking about driving again this year :thumbup:

Driving is my first choice, but I would far prefer to go by train as the second choice. Maybe it helps that I am very close to the Eurostar starting stations, but it is a very relaxing way to get there if done correctly (namely what you pack for the journey :twisted: ).

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:15:50 GMT

traveling from Newcastle makes either driving or the train take longer than flying - and more expensive too as the train would involve getting to London for early morning and that means either a hotekl the night before or the firs train of the day which has no discounted tickets (i do it with clients far too often)

If you fly with Jet2 from Toon to Chambery at 6am you get win: we were on the slopes in VDI by 1pm this year so can still give you extra time - all depends on resort I guess

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:27:42 GMT

Far Queue wrote:.......it is a very relaxing way to get there if done correctly (namely what you pack for the journey :twisted: ).

So what are the recomendations for packing for the journey?

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:46:49 GMT

Probably vast quantities of liquid anaesthetic :twisted:

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:36:45 GMT

OldAndy wrote:

Far Queue wrote:.......it is a very relaxing way to get there if done correctly (namely what you pack for the journey :twisted: ).

So what are the recomendations for packing for the journey?

Wine, plastic glasses, nibbles, eye blinds, ear plugs :)

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:32:47 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:Why would anybody want to to travel to the alps by train it is bad enough by air, I am thinking about driving again this year :thumbup:

Yep, me too for a possible potential 2nd trip in March seeing as I've stumbled across the deal of the century

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:22:04 GMT

Excellent, Very Top Gear and just about proved a point as it assumes no delays anywhere.

No mention how much each of them spent door to door, as there is not much time difference cost would be a deciding factor and how would it work dragging kids with you.

They should do it again with families and tired crabby kids!

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:47:10 GMT

Interesting how this changes individually for us all depending on where we are, both time and cost wise.
For instance:

Plane
Home to Heathrow: 2 hours
Check in: 2 hours
Flight: 1.5 hours
Baggage reclaim etc: 1 hour
Transfer: 1.5 hours
Total time: 8 hours

Cost approx GBP150 return flight, GBP50 parking, GBP40 fuel = GBP240
arriving slightly fatigued but ready for dinner and a few beers and fresh for skiing the next morning

Train
Home to station: 30 mins
Station to Kings X: 1 hour
Transfer to St Pancras: 10 mins
Check in etc: 1.5 hour
Eurostar to France: 10 hours
Waiting etc: 1 hour
Transfer: 1.5 hours
Total time: 15 hours 40 mins

Cost approx GBP279 return train, GBP50 to London, GBP40 taxis = GBP369
and arriving knackered, without sleep, hungover, and probably not being let into your propertty until after lunch so bang goes your extra days skiing

:wink: 8) :!:

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:26:31 GMT

My train journey to Tignes should take 18 hours door to door.
A flight on the Sunday about 12 hours.

Similar for the return......

12 hours "extra" travel for 2 days extra skiing!

Worth the time and possible discomfort!

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:25:43 GMT

Tony's costings only work on a package trip and you don't get them from Heathrow. Any self organised trip you have to add in GBP60 transfer and GBP40 for a taxi? and what's wrong with the tube.. I managed a day and half extra this year in La plagne

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:53:35 GMT

daved wrote:Tony's costings only work on a package trip and you don't get them from Heathrow. Any self organised trip you have to add in GBP60 transfer and GBP40 for a taxi? and what's wrong with the tube.. I managed a day and half extra this year in La plagne

Incorrect. I specifically priced that on a BA flight from Heathrow. How do you cost a package flight at GBP150?
Why do you need the tube when driving to Heathrow?
The taxi was GBP20 from home to the station each way.

Big saving, personally, by flying and frankly I don't care about an extra days skiing for that extra cost and inconvenience.

It's all subjective though 8)

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:58:35 GMT

It's personal choice (like the great helmet debate), we all like to do things differently, it'd be boring if we were all the same.

I've had hideous flight experiences every time, never (touch wood) had a problem with the train, I enjoy the feeling of actually being on the move and going somewhere. I like being able to wander around, have a little drink or two, cat nap, get excited and look forward to my first ski in the morning.

I'm knackered either way, sleepless night on the train or sleepless night in bed waiting to get up and hang around at an airport for hours.

Whenever I fly I ALWAYS say to Mr Nelly'if we'd gone by train we'd be skiing now'.

Excited much!

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:32:16 GMT

I was stuck in the Chunnel once on Eurostar for six hours when it snowed a bit in southern England and everything stopped. Got very hot in there and they ran out of water (and worse, G&Ts) but worst bit was when they turned the power (and thus lights) off -something about re-setting the power they said, although you wonder if it was a wind up. But despite that I'd still take the train given the choice, just enjoy it more than the stop/start flying process, although I end up flying 95% of the time. Agree with Nelly and others - personal taste, and I don't sleep whether early flight or train anyway.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:03:16 GMT

I have just traveled 18 hours and after arriving at Gatwick I was fit for nothing let alone skiing, with flying I do get frustrated with all the hanging around at airports and I always keep thinking if I drove where could I be by now ...... security at Britains airports is totally at ridiculous levels.
And by the way if you gave me a free train ticket for the alps tomorrow, I'd give it away maybe to a student !!!!!

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:09:10 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:I have just traveled 18 hours and after arriving at Gatwick I was fit for nothing let alone skiing, with flying I do get frustrated with all the hanging around at airports and I always keep thinking if I drove where could I be by now ...... security at Britains airports is totally at ridiculous levels.
And by the way if you gave me a free train ticket for the alps tomorrow, I'd give it away maybe to a student !!!!!

Ian, come on, you just got back from S Africa. Its not like thats relevant in this debate seeing as you cant take the train down. If you fly into Geneva, around where you tend to ski, its about 1.5 hour flight.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:24:14 GMT

The most frustrating delay can be waiting at the airport for other flights, delayed baggage, passengers etc. Whenever this happens, I think never again, I'm going independent again next time.

For me the perfect travel combination is fly to Zurich and take the train to a resort. Last time I did this, I left home at 2am and was skiing by noon.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:42:14 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:I have just traveled 18 hours and after arriving at Gatwick I was fit for nothing let alone skiing, with flying I do get frustrated with all the hanging around at airports and I always keep thinking if I drove where could I be by now ...... security at Britains airports is totally at ridiculous levels.
And by the way if you gave me a free train ticket for the alps tomorrow, I'd give it away maybe to a student !!!!!

Ian, come on, you just got back from S Africa. Its not like thats relevant in this debate seeing as you cant take the train down. If you fly into Geneva, around where you tend to ski, its about 1.5 hour flight.

You missed the point, after travelling a silly amount of time by train with out much sleep I don't think I would be fit to ski.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:56:25 GMT

You know when you are tied, when the 4 of you sitting on the chairlift forget to lift the bar before trying to get of. First day 3.30pm after flying to the mountains.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:08:39 GMT

Ian Wickham wrote:

Tony_H wrote:

Ian Wickham wrote:I have just traveled 18 hours and after arriving at Gatwick I was fit for nothing let alone skiing, with flying I do get frustrated with all the hanging around at airports and I always keep thinking if I drove where could I be by now ...... security at Britains airports is totally at ridiculous levels.
And by the way if you gave me a free train ticket for the alps tomorrow, I'd give it away maybe to a student !!!!!

Ian, come on, you just got back from S Africa. Its not like thats relevant in this debate seeing as you cant take the train down. If you fly into Geneva, around where you tend to ski, its about 1.5 hour flight.

You missed the point, after travelling a silly amount of time by train with out much sleep I don't think I would be fit to ski.

I totally agree with you. When we arrived at 8am or something in Val Thorens after a dreadful night on the ski train, we werent fit for anything. I remember the kids and women did a lot of crying. Skiing on that day????? No thanks. I reckon you'd be dangerous.

I can still vividly smell those cheesy feet from the carriage we were unlucky enough to be in.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:24:40 GMT

Thank goodness we don't all want to travel the same way!
Or all the planes and airports, roads or trains would be even busier than they are.
:lol:

And even worse - imagine if everyone wanted to go to a picture postcard Austrian Village or a high mountain French Moonscape or a chique Swiss resort.......

The list is endless!
Vive la difference !!
:thumbup:

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:02:33 GMT

OldAndy wrote:Thank goodness we don't all want to travel the same way!
Or all the planes and airports, roads or trains would be even busier than they are.
:lol:

And even worse - imagine if everyone wanted to go to a picture postcard Austrian Village or a high mountain French Moonscape or a chique Swiss resort.......

The list is endless!
Vive la difference !!
:thumbup:

Indeed.

Funny how we all find what works for us and its often so different from what works for others. Fortunately. As otherwise Champoluc would be full this January with people flying into turin.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:57:03 GMT

AHHHH Champoluc Tony-H, take some travel sick pills for the winding roads up to the village, I have been twice felt sick both times don't know why as it hasn't happened anywhere else and pretty good travelling normally.

Also, watch out for Saturday mornings Italy comes to Champoluc, beware all the Italian ski Schools that are suddenly full of bib wearing little ones and try not to get caught looking after one of the kids going up the lifts, I tried not too but the lifties insist.

Funny experience with one little lad though, probbaly 9(ish), started pointing at things and speaking at me in italian. In my best italian, which means I hardly know any, I said I am English, he suddenly switched to perfect English leaving me a litlle embarassed really at 40 only being able to say I don't understand I am English.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:13:15 GMT

TC wrote:AHHHH Champoluc Tony-H, take some travel sick pills for the winding roads up to the village, I have been twice felt sick both times don't know why as it hasn't happened anywhere else and pretty good travelling normally.

Also, watch out for Saturday mornings Italy comes to Champoluc, beware all the Italian ski Schools that are suddenly full of bib wearing little ones and try not to get caught looking after one of the kids going up the lifts, I tried not too but the lifties insist.

Funny experience with one little lad though, probbaly 9(ish), started pointing at things and speaking at me in italian. In my best italian, which means I hardly know any, I said I am English, he suddenly switched to perfect English leaving me a litlle embarassed really at 40 only being able to say I don't understand I am English.

I never ever get travel sick and will enjoy the views going up that road by the sounds of it.
I've heard the Torinoers go there at weekends, but hopefully we will have had 5 blissfully quiet days by then.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:00:03 GMT

Best we have managed is just under 8 hours from booking the flight to being in the apartment, and that was using train, telepherique and bus at the Swiss end as well.

10:00 Decide to go Skiing
10:15 Book flights (at big discount 'coz it very late!)
10:40 Taxi arrives. Driver says he has to get petrol but don't worry ....! Leave Brighton
11:30 Arrive Gatwick N
11:45 Checkin (BA) - Bypass the queue because we're late ...
12:00 Security, Then direct to Gate
13:10 Flight departs
14:20 Arrive Geneva
14:47 Train Geneva->Martigny->Riddes
17:15 Telepherique Riddes->Iserables
17:25 Bus Iserables->La Tzoumaz
18:00 Walk into apartment

However. I wouldn't recommend cutting it quite so fine. That time 'round it all went amazingly smoothly and we we so late and the flights were so cheap that we weren't worried if we missed it.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:17:04 GMT

msej449 wrote:Best we have managed is just under 8 hours from booking the flight to being in the apartment, and that was using train, telepherique and bus at the Swiss end as well.

10:00 Decide to go Skiing
10:15 Book flights (at big discount 'coz it very late!)
10:40 Taxi arrives. Driver says he has to get petrol but don't worry ....! Leave Brighton
11:30 Arrive Gatwick N
11:45 Checkin (BA) - Bypass the queue because we're late ...
12:00 Security, Then direct to Gate
13:10 Flight departs
14:20 Arrive Geneva
14:47 Train Geneva->Martigny->Riddes
17:15 Telepherique Riddes->Iserables
17:25 Bus Iserables->La Tzoumaz
18:00 Walk into apartment

However. I wouldn't recommend cutting it quite so fine. That time 'round it all went amazingly smoothly and we we so late and the flights were so cheap that we weren't worried if we missed it.

:shock:

Did you actually pack anything in the time between the decision being made and the taxi arriving? That's what you call a last minute decision.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:02:44 GMT

It's a slightly special situation. We were due to fly out the day before, but I was too ill to travel. So we were all packed. I felt much better that morning and so we went for it. Also helped that it's our apartment, so all our clothes and equipment are already out there.

Re:Plane Versus Train To The Alps: The Movie

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:50:24 GMT

Ah right, that makes sense now. Good work though!