Latest posts for the topic "Is it just me?"

Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:00:16 GMT

Or does there not appear to be much choice with the TOs this year and everything is REALLY expensive?

Been weighing up DIY vs TO and really struggling to find anything within budget with the TOs(which we usually do at this time of year), plus the Eurostars gone up GBP50 each since I last checked the prices.

Meh.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:14:27 GMT

It's not just you, although the brochures seem fatter than ever the choice of accom is smaller and focused on the 4* ish catagory. Previously we have used Neilson for Sweden and gone self catering, lift pass, tuition, ski carriage in the region of GBP800 without any offers(often have got down to cGBP600), this year you can add GBP300 to that and I've not seen any offers either.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:15:10 GMT

Hmmm. Where's Tony when you need him...

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:15:33 GMT

I think you are right. The prices will have been set when the Euro was at a different level, so I imagine there will be room for prices to come down.

I have done my main diy, but have another TO, and a diy to arrange.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:41:04 GMT

I need to be doing a cheapy as had work in the house. so now considering driving over and doing a DIY, does this work out cheaper than a package?

Never driven over before.

Worth doing ?

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:47:05 GMT

tonypants wrote:I need to be doing a cheapy as had work in the house. so now considering driving over and doing a DIY, does this work out cheaper than a package?

Never driven over before.

Worth doing ?

Depends on your car, lots of variable costs depends on where you are going too.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:52:24 GMT

Hi Bandit, hope you are well

Criteria:

Anywhere above 1800m as potentially going in Dec

Car: BMW diesel (40 mpg ish ) with big wheels ( I say big wheels as costs of chains if I need to rent them)

That's it really

PS are you going to ski show this year? or are you abroad?

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 18:01:50 GMT

Hi tonypants, I hope to be at the Ski Show in London :D

Your Diesel will cost less as it's France, but you have to pay for the Motorway.
Via Michelin is a good site for planning journeys, as it shows fuel/toll costs.

Best find out if you can get the chains to fit your wheels before you go much further with your planning.

Not sure if being above 1800 is worth pursuing, last Dec, you were snowed in at 1000m :lol: I think I'd sleep low, get the motor into an underground car park and concentrate on skiing at altitude IYKWIM. If you sleep low, Chamonix is only 8 hours from Calais and it's Autoroute all the way -)

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 18:03:43 GMT

Hi Tonypants, a lot of that will depend on how many of you are in the vehicle and(I know this sounds obvious) where you are going.

I have driven to Europe for the past 6 or 7 seasons, but I do it primarily because of the freedom it allows with my luggage etc. FYI, a Eurostar Le Shuttle crossing is usually around GBP120 -GBP150 return if you go out on one of the earlier times. I think a ferry can be cheaper, but I prefer the train as it is a much quicker crossing and not as liable to bad weather giving you issues. The drive is then between 600 and 800 miles (each way), so you can work out the fuel your car would use.

If you travel through France and use the motorways, you then have to factor in the Peage Tolls, which are about GBP80 each way to the Alps (if my memory is correct), or you could bypass the Peage and go round through Belguim, Switzerland etc. although that is a longer drive and would incur the cost of a Vignette in Switzerland (about GBP30 last time I had one), but it usually works out cheaper than the Peage.

Austria is a fairly straight forward trip across Belguim, Germany and into Austria.

Italy can be done either through France, or Switzerland or even Austria.

Finally, you have to factor in the cost of parking the car and suitable winter essentials. Chains are compulsory in many places (to carry) and I would strongly advise having winter tyres on the car. Ensure you drain the windscreen washer and fill with high strength cleaner and make sure the anti-freeze is up to scratch in the engine.

FYI I am driving to Tignes and estimate the car will cost me a total of GBP500 return. That is Crossing, fuel and tolls. So even 3 people in the car makes it as cheap if not cheaper than flying as you do not have to pay for transfers. If that was a trip to Austria, I would bring that price down to the GBP400 mark as I would save on the tolls but use a bit more fuel. Equally, I could save a chunk going to Tignes, but I prefer to get there quicker.

The Viamichelin site is quite good, as it will give you a guide to toll and fuel charges for your journey. http://www.viamichelin.com/

Hope that info helps :lol:

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 18:35:07 GMT

I suppose it also depends on how close you live to the channel ports, or the tunnel, as compared with how easy/expensive it is to get to an airport with flights in the right direction. Obviously if you lived in the north of Scotland driving to France would be pretty expensive/take a very long time!

People always seem to forget the cost of getting to the airport in the U.K. but they can mount up to quite a bit, especially if you have to stay overnight in a hotel beforehand and pay for airport parking, or get a long distance taxi. A taxi to the London airports from where I live costs GBP250 one way!

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:12:52 GMT

Thank you FQ and Ally, great info.

So costing it up, for 4 people: GBP500ish travel, GBP700ish for apartment for a week plus catering, say GBP800ish.

Total GBP GBP2000ish

The dilemma is catered chalet package at around GBP500-600ish each, all in with a bit of cheap wine.

Total GBP2200 + 50 airport parking

I| live in Leicester so 2.5 hrs to get to Ashford.

Can you see my dilemma or am I missing something ???

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:16:26 GMT

Tonypants,
Driving can definittely be cheaper than a package.
Go self catering.
Get a cheap crossing.
We usually use tesco vouchers and go by tunnel.
If you are serious about saving money take your food.
We 've done this several times, even freezing milk and using that as the ice blocks.
Your food will stay frozen all the way down.
We would buy fresh bread and salad, but most other stuff can be taken.

I know it might not seem like holiday to some....but if it's te difference between staying at home or going skiing I know which. i choose..
:D

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:22:56 GMT

bandit wrote:Hi tonypants, I hope to be at the Ski Show in London :D

Your Diesel will cost less as it's France, but you have to pay for the Motorway.
Via Michelin is a good site for planning journeys, as it shows fuel/toll costs.

Best find out if you can get the chains to fit your wheels before you go much further with your planning.

Not sure if being above 1800 is worth pursuing, last Dec, you were snowed in at 1000m :lol: I think I'd sleep low, get the motor into an underground car park and concentrate on skiing at altitude IYKWIM. If you sleep low, Chamonix is only 8 hours from Calais and it's Autoroute all the way -)

Thanks bandit, what day are you going to ski show, did cham last year, not sure if want to go again

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:29:53 GMT

Ha Ha Dids, I do see your point AND I am trying to save money, love the milk idea :D , however never done a SC ski hol, will be new to me and.....exciting as will be doing something different.

My daughter has just said, " Dad on the way back from Skiing can we go to disneyland"

Its All going wrong -)

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:11 GMT

tonypants wrote:

My daughter has just said, " Dad on the way back from Skiing can we go to disneyland"

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Dang, it's a long drive to Florida :twisted:

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:36:56 GMT

Personally I would do the catered chalet bit and drive there.

If you are happy to drive, it opens up a whole raft of chalets who are doing the chalet part only, and there are a lot who do this and leave all the travel to yourself.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:44:29 GMT

Far Queue wrote:Personally I would do the catered chalet bit and drive there.

If you are happy to drive, it opens up a whole raft of chalets who are doing the chalet part only, and there are a lot who do this and leave all the travel to yourself.

Like that idea, will do some investigation.

Thanks FQ, will I need chains?

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:46:19 GMT

Tony,
As long as you don't eat out and you actually cook, you should be able to spend a lot less than GBP800 on food and drink for 4 of you. And as long as you don't go in school holidays you should be able to get a self-catering apartment for 4 for less than GBP700.

For me, one of the main bonuses of going self-catering is that we can go back to the apartment for lunch, so I always get a ski in/gondola out apartment. I reckon we save a fortune like that.

I was in Meribel in January and I was in a mountain restaurant that wouldn't even give me a free carafe of tap water! We were there for lunch because we were ski-ing with the Ski Club of GB, instead of going back to the apartment. And lunch in those sort of places costs at least 20 euros each.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:52:26 GMT

Gosh Ally super idea, never thought that SC ski in/out would have so much impact, love it.

Probably will not cook much take away or restaurants ( am on hols) but will do cheap as poss.

Off to pick up the take away now instead of delivery ( I am getting good at this ) -) -) -)

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:10:05 GMT

It does take a bit more planning but if you are well prepared it's not much hassle.

I just cook and freeze a load of meals - you have to eat at home anyway.
Get it out of the freezer ( never been in a sc apartment without one) in the morning, heat it in the evening.

Another thing we've done if going in a group is split into groups and take it in turns to cater, clean up for the evening etc...

It wouldn't be my 1st choice (a catered chalet would be) if money weren't a consideration....
Dids.

Ps....why did you not fancy a return to Cham?

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:17:58 GMT

tonypants wrote:

Thanks bandit, what day are you going to ski show, did cham last year, not sure if want to go again

I'm not too sure on the day yet, will keep you posted :D

What was wrong with the Chamonix valley?

If you take a car, you can ski anywhere.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:46:58 GMT

Ps....why did you not fancy a return to Cham?

/quote]

Hi Dids

We did Cham last Dec and had a issues, All lifts closed due to weather, when lifts opened all Buses were full so were stuck at bus stops with ski's and daughter waiting. very frustrating.

Also Ski school (that Inghams had deal with ) lost my 7YO daughter, it took two hours to find her. Ski school had taken her but not told anyone. This was was down to communication between Inghams and Ski school, for the whole week it was messy.

Once bitten....

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:01:08 GMT

tonypants wrote:

Thanks FQ, will I need chains?

Tony,
I'm surprised you haven't seen my 'chains' photo. I took it most particularly so that I could post it up on here every time someone asked about snow chains.

This photo was taken in Meribel car park whilst it was snowing during the evening of Saturday 7th January 2012. There had been heavy snowfalls all week and even the buses had difficulty getting about with chains on.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:11:48 GMT

Great excuse to ski another day -)

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:21:29 GMT

Sorry about this, but you DIYers are delusional.

When you add up all the costs it is almost impossible to beat the package prices.

The last few years, in my view, have seen a huge reduction in ski holiday availability, with holiday companies reducing their exposure due to lack of demand caused by the 'recession'. They have retreated to their core market, the people unaffected, and know that they can pretty much keep the prices fairly high in that sector.

This has seen real 'late deals' dry up in the last couple of years.

However, in my experience, there is a window around the end of October when companies get twitchy prior to the arrival of the snow, and if you are prepared to take a chance, then that is the time, again, in my view, to book.

Bad times for the skier, but still, on the whole, better to take a package, where the TO has negotiated with the hotel/chalet, than to DIY as a 'punter'.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:59:29 GMT

I disagree, Brucie. If I choose to, I can do Edinburgh/Munich/train Skiwelt/Wildschoenau/ Alpbachtal, Pension or HB, much cheaper than a TO. I use a TO when I am with family or a ski group, but always go diy when doing a solo, or just with my OH.

There are ways. You just have to get good at it. Oh, and when you find the way......You don't tell anyone how to do it!

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:23:10 GMT

I also disagree with Brucie. Our 1st winter DIY trip was in 1992, and have gone the DIY route every winter since. We were unhappy with being treated like cattle, and always being in a queue.We also wanted to make our own packages, with the savings that brings. We have been package tourists since, when skiing in the USA. The experiences served to reinforce our views.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:26:21 GMT

I also have to disagree Brucie.

DIY'ing is not always about saving money, but about making sure you get what you want.

Having said that, I have been able to beat TO prices on many occasions by going direct. An example was one I looked at earlier this year, the brochure price was GBP1400 pp. I visited the hotel website and could have booked the rooms direct at GBP700 pp. Exactly the same service, half board, and the same room types. It would have cost us GBP500 per vehicle going (x2) with 3 people in each vehicle. Cost of trip DIY = GBP867 pp, only thing missing is no resort rep.

We did not book it due to other reasons (namely an idiot son of the guy I go with decided to get married that weekend :shock: ), but I doubt the price would have fallen to the level we could have got it for.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 09:56:00 GMT

Brucie,
I wouldn't say I can always beat the package price, but quite often I can, and if I can't actually beat it on price I can find much nicer accommodation and a far more comfortable way of getting there than the TO is offering.

I beat the TO total package price for my New Year 2011/2012 ski holiday to Meribel by miles. In fact, we paid about half the amount per person that we would have paid if we'd gone with, say, Crystal or Inghams.

There were 3 of us and we travelled out on the day Eurostar and back in the luxury seats on the night train (which is something you can't do if you book through a TO - or at least I haven't found one I can do that with). We did this so that we could get 7 days ski-ing.

We stayed in Maeva Les Ravines, a self-catering apartment for 4 people. And we got a taxi from Moutiers to Meribel on the way out, and the bus on the way back.

I'm pretty sure I paid GBP179 each for our return train tickets, and only GBP750 for the apartment with Pierre et Vacances because I got it as an accommodation only offer through Igluski who got if from IfyouSki. These were bargain prices that I only got because I booked the instant the train and the apartment became available. I've forgotten what the taxi cost, but I know the bus was 15 euros return.

So, total per person was GBP250 for the apartment, GBP179 for the train, say GBP15 for the bus.
Thus total for accommodation, transport and transfers was only GBP444.
The TO's were asking about GBP1000 per person for this exact same holiday. And even if we'd flown they still wanted about GBP900 per person.

Actually, I've just checked, and Crystal are asking GBP1026 for it this year, over New Year, with train tickets (day train both ways) for 3 people, or GBP929 p.p. if you fly.

And P&V are asking 1450 euros (full price) which works out about GBP1160, or GBP386 p.p. Obviously all the cheap train tickets have gone now, but I suppose I would have been able to get them at GBP179 again. So I could have bought that holiday again this year (with the apartment at full price this time) for GBP580 including GBP15 for the bus.

And I decided to deal directly with the chalet owners for the 2013 J2Ski group holiday I'm organizing because I could get a more suitable deal for us.

I phoned several TO's and was shocked to hear that they would charge group members who wanted solo accommodation the full price of the holiday less about GBP60 for the flights on top of the basic holiday cost - so say another GBP500 on top of the original GBP560 or so. And we have several group members who want sole occupancy of their room. Bonjour are only charging us a GBP200 surcharge for this.

Furthermore, the chalet owners have allowed one of us to book into a triple room without a surcharge on the understanding that they will try to find someone to share the room with him, as well as us, but if none of us find anyone then that particular person will have a triple room all to himself with no extra charge.

Sometimes the package deals with the TO's can be very cheap, because they do things like one child gets a totally free holiday - free flights, accommodation, ski hire and lessons. I noticed just now that Crystal are offering free first time ski and board packages. I suppose that's because they've realized that less first timers are going ski-ing /boarding and their customer base will diminish unless they can do something about it.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:15:03 GMT

Far Queue wrote:I also have to disagree Brucie.
DIY'ing is not always about saving money, but about making sure you get what you want.

I agree with Far Queue and I also agree with Ally
Have DIY'ed in the Feb half term for the last 5 years and although each year it gets a little more expensive as we start to want to be nearer and nearer the piste and want a larger apartment with comfortable seating for all of us ( the Snowtrex chalets that we used to use only seem to have one sofa, even those saying sleep eight. We also always book something that sleeps 6-8 as everyone wants a bedroom- This time all have
our own bathroom.
So the breakdown per person for a weeks holiday in Morillon for 4 is as follows without food (For Feb half term 2013 )

Return flight from Luton to Geneva (inc.2 cases) GBP 170
Petrol airport(return) GBP 10
Parking Luton(mid term car park early booking deal) GBP 13
Return Transfer Geneva to Morillon ( shared mini bus)
Usually hire car for 4 but friends coming later GBP 64
Large 2 bed/2bath apartment right by piste
(incl linen andtowels) GBP 258
ski and boot hire ( black/gold) online hire GBP 65
ski pass GBP 200
ski lessons GBP 100

Total GBP 880

Admittedly as no car this year food bill could be pricier but last year in Serre Cherre even though we had a car we shopped in local shops. To make it cheaper you could eat lunch in or take food with you. And as others have said take some food from home. If you don't mind being further from the piste and don't mind a smaller apartment then it can be done even cheaper.
It has taken a lot of shopping around to get these prices but I have looked at TO's and for a package of all travel + accommodation + ski hire + lessons, none can match this for a Feb half term.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:30:43 GMT

Hiya,

I know it seems to be the attitude of " take 'em for everything they've got " but there are still cheaper alternatives I guess.....depending on when you go and if you have any kind of flexibility......you can still get return flights for most places at around GBP70 each, car hire GBP170 ish for a week ( or return transfer with say BensBus at about GBP73 each, normal transfer schedule buses roughly the same ) and if you don't mind self catering a weeks acommadation for around GBP300 - GBP400 p/w.

I find the killer is the Lift Pass price now for families I'm afraid, which now I think is the number 1 deciding factor for a family of 4, if the lift pass companies realized this they would drop thier prices , gain more visitors and therefore keep the same profit margins, whilst helping local businesses with the extra tourism .

jon.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:33:53 GMT

Looks like this has turned into yet another thread where people make statements about the way they prefer to take a holiday being by far the best, ie packages vs DIY

If that's the case, I can only echo Brucie's post which is factually correct and not littered with personal preferences or emotional remarks from the odd bad experience possibly?

The recession has hit hard. Not just you and me, or other people who take skiing holidays, but property owners, businesses, restaurants, airlines, tour operators, etc.

Property being sold as holidays now via tour ops was reserved in previous years and booked when the euro exchange rate was at its very worse ie 1 to 1. Therefore, prices have increased and some resorts and accommodations have been binned. There's a market which keeps tour ops going so they are concentrating on that. Most people will find a way of making it happen if they really want to.

I've done both packages and DIY and enjoyed them all. Each has their positives and negatives. There is no right or wrong in either.

What I can say from experience is that the kind of holiday I want cannot be had anywhere as cost effectively by doing it myself. Flights, transfers to the door, catered accommodation close to lifts or pistes. It also depends where and when. But for me a weeks skiing all in including lift pass and spending money me always costs almost exactly GBP1000 each. That's good quality and out of peak weeks. It cannot be bettered on price for the same standard.
I've looked, believe me.

I've done DIY and booked my own flights one time and rented a car, or driven all the way. Both I've enjoyed ad have their advantages in terms of independence if you want to drive to other ski areas. Or taking more if you have your own car for instance.

However, do you really want to drive for hours?
Do you want the added hassle of potential breakdowns, road closures, snow chains, and all the extra expense of having the right tyres and other ancillary things you now need?

For me, getting to the uk airport and having everything sorted for me from there is just so easy. Some people think its like being herded around but it's never felt like that to me. I like the efficiency of getting a flight and then a coach direct to my accommodation. But each to their own.

I see pros and cons with both ways of taking your holiday. I think individuals will find what works for them financially and which way they prefer to travel.

This coming season brochure prices seem a bit steeper, yes. I've found the place I want to go including half board, flights, transfers, lift pass for GBP775 which is more than I often pay and still within my GBP1000 rough target price, but I have often found bargains by booking later. I am sure discounted deals will start to appear soon and people will find some great package deals.

But to answer nelly's original post, no it's not you, prices in brochures always seem high when you first see them!!!

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:17:48 GMT

Interesting. At the moment after a fair amount of research the DIY is winning (despite thetrain going up in price, but apparently they change constantly), however I'm curious to see if there is any change in prices when we come to book in a couple of weeks.

Still weighing it up, but at the moment we can get the train, transfer and HB chalet for less than the TOs are doing it, and as FQ said, it't about getting what you want, and obviously everyone has a budget.

There just seems to be less choice with the TOs this year.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:54:31 GMT

Good luck with your search Nelly :D

Pierre et Vacances have a 20% sale on at the moment.

For example, that 4 person studio (plus cabine) apartment we stayed in for the New Year in Meribel, Les Ravines, is down from 730 euros to 584 euros (about GBP470) for the week starting Saturday 5th January.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:16:56 GMT

As an inveterate bargain hunter I have always gone for the late deals ..but last year was difficult and the choice was ....minimal..but there is a saver if you have the time...go for 2 weeks ..or more ..this saves a large proportion of the costs ..especially if you drive and want single rooms...there are some available (you have to search) the tour operators only seem to want to cram 4 in a studio ..at vast cost and you can rent apartments for reasonable prices if you look hard

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:15:21 GMT

Snapzzz has recently demonstrated how to save money by buying your own Lift Tickets, and not relying on the T.O to give you a competitive price in your package :thumbup:

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:42:18 GMT

Interestingly "Inghams advertised on their "deal of the day " L2A at GBP388 PP Chalet board 15th Dec, not a bad deal, I tried to add all the details ie : lift passes, kids ski school and ski's etc etc and at the end the total was GBP11632.

I did not understand this, however, my wife said that it is something to do with English school holidays, they won't let any kids under twelve in their Chalets out of school time.

Anyone else found this?

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:08:00 GMT

I don't disagree that in school holidays T/O prices are crazy, I would definitely go DIY, but at other times I think costs are far closer and T/Os give DIYers a good run for their money.

I'll put my mouth where my money is...simple statement of facts:

With T/O GBP575 + GBP15 for one meal out. GBP590 per adult.

6th January (i.e. out of school holidays).
6 days skiing.
T/O Heathrow flights to Geneva.
Transfers.
La Plagne (i.e. main French resport)
Ski In/Ski Out accommodation.
Ski Guiding.
7x Breakfast.
6x 3 course eve meal & wine. (Need to pay one nights meal out.)

Ignoring hire, lift pass, lessons and uk costs as these are all optional/personal; or at least can be arranged whether you are with a T/O or self org.

I've ignored lunch cost as well for the moment. Personally I find the size of breakfast & eve meal negates the need for much lunch.

Has anyone any good/direct DIY comparables?

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:17:39 GMT

tonypants wrote:Interestingly "Inghams advertised on their "deal of the day " L2A at GBP388 PP Chalet board 15th Dec, not a bad deal, I tried to add all the details ie : lift passes, kids ski school and ski's etc etc and at the end the total was GBP11632.

I did not understand this, however, my wife said that it is something to do with English school holidays, they won't let any kids under twelve in their Chalets out of school time.

Anyone else found this?

Tony, how many kids have you got? GBP11,632 sounds a little excessive for one ski holiday :shock:

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:23:15 GMT

Ha Ha, I think it was a glitch in the program in order to ensure you called them.

Only one eight year old.

I did run it through twice and the same figure came up.

Might ring them tomorrow to Clarify.....................

Just realised, Gosh, their marketing is working on me already :)

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:24:20 GMT

New year DIY

Catered Chalet Morzine
Private Bus to the slopes and pick up
Hot tub
GBP778
Flights from Manchester to Geneva
GBP220

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:38:30 GMT

smartski wrote:I don't disagree that in school holidays T/O prices are crazy, I would definitely go DIY, but at other times I think costs are far closer and T/Os give DIYers a good run for their money.

I'll put my mouth where my money is...simple statement of facts:

With T/O GBP575 + GBP15 for one meal out. GBP590 per adult.

6th January (i.e. out of school holidays).
6 days skiing.
T/O Heathrow flights to Geneva.
Transfers.
La Plagne (i.e. main French resport)
Ski In/Ski Out accommodation.
Ski Guiding.
7x Breakfast.
6x 3 course eve meal & wine. (Need to pay one nights meal out.)

Ignoring hire, lift pass, lessons and uk costs as these are all optional/personal; or at least can be arranged whether you are with a T/O or self org.

I've ignored lunch cost as well for the moment. Personally I find the size of breakfast & eve meal negates the need for much lunch.

Has anyone any good/direct DIY comparables?

Smartski,
You obviously haven't been reading my J2Ski group holiday to Tignes Les Brevieres thread!

Return flights Luton to Geneva with EasyJet 13th January = GBP80
Chalet transfers = GBP60
En-suite catered chalet (with hot tub) = GBP399
Dinner out on one evening = GBP15 (actually I think it would cost more like GBP25)

Total = GBP554

Espace Killy area lift pass = 235 euros (around GBP190)
Total with lift pass = GBP744

Includes 5 days of ski hosting
Top resort
Not quite ski in/out ( 4 minute walk to piste and gondola)
Afternoon tea and cakes as well as the evening meal
In-house ski/board hire.
Free wi-fi
Free English T.V. in each bedroom
Free shared use of one computer.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:21:20 GMT

AllyG wrote:

smartski wrote:I don't disagree that in school holidays T/O prices are crazy, I would definitely go DIY, but at other times I think costs are far closer and T/Os give DIYers a good run for their money.

I'll put my mouth where my money is...simple statement of facts:

With T/O GBP575 + GBP15 for one meal out. GBP590 per adult.

Has anyone any good/direct DIY comparables?

Smartski,
You obviously haven't been reading my J2Ski group holiday to Tignes Les Brevieres thread!

Return flights Luton to Geneva with EasyJet 13th January = GBP80
Chalet transfers = GBP60
En-suite catered chalet (with hot tub) = GBP399
Dinner out on one evening = GBP15 (actually I think it would cost more like GBP25)

Total = GBP554

Includes 5 days of ski hosting
Top resort
Not quite ski in/out ( 4 minute walk to piste and gondola)
Afternoon tea and cakes as well as the evening meal
In-house ski/board hire.
Free wi-fi
Free English T.V. in each bedroom
Free shared use of one computer.

Forgot about cakes & afternoon tea, got that too. I'm not getting use of computer. I'll not quibble over cost of eve out.

So good comparable....only GBP35 between us. :thumbup:
So T/Os are not 'so' bad.
Is the GBP35 extra worth the service (and protection) they theoretically provide? I think so, but that's personal choice.

Anyone doing "full" DIY, ie with self-catering, around the same time?

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:26:11 GMT

I think it may have been about 4/5 years back, having had five and a half weeks skiing, I felt compelled to return for just one week, and my OH agreed.

Free flights.
return train fare 52 Eu.
Hitched up the mountain, got a lift back.
b&b, 24 Eu/night. 168 Eu
Lift pass 36 Eu, (One sixth of a season pass.)
Total: 251 Eu, about GBP200.

I bought 3/4 meals, and was invited to eat with locals on other nights. This was a deliberate cheapo, I have done better, but not by much, and a good few years back.

Three years ago, at New Year, we stayed in the Skiwelt, HB, for 45 Eu/night, 50Eu train fare, pick up from station by hotel, free flights. Total 292 Eu, GBP292.

The free flights are because I use Natwest Visa.

In the early part of this season, just as FQ states, I will be spending a bit more, so I have an apartment to myself for the best part of 3 weeks. I will hire a car, since I have some Austrian friends I wish to visit in Kitzbuhel and other areas. I have a pretty good price for that, too. Like Bandit, I buy an area season pass, and that gives a low cost per week.

OTOH, I will be taking a TO for one of my March trips. That is mainly for social reasons ~ will be skiing in a group, part of group marking the passing of my ski buddy, Mel, earlier this year.
I may have to pay the going rate, but I will have the best room in the village! 8)

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:49:42 GMT

snowy0000 wrote:New year DIY

Catered Chalet Morzine
Private Bus to the slopes and pick up
Hot tub
GBP778
Flights from Manchester to Geneva
GBP220

Hi Snowy0000,
Is that per person? If so, I suppose your price shows just how much more expensive it is to go at New Year than a week or 2 afterwards.

I hope you have a great time!

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:02:29 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:
Free flights.
return train fare 52 Eu.
Hitched up the mountain, got a lift back.
b&b, 24 Eu/night. 168 Eu
Lift pass 36 Eu, (One sixth of a season pass.)
Total: 251 Eu, about GBP200.

Dave Mac,
That sounds pretty cheap to me :thumbup:

If anyone is looking for a cheap catered chalet (no flights or anything included) for January, Bonjour have built a new one called Pere Marie in Le Pre, les Arcs, and it's only GBP299 all through January and GBP399 for the 3rd February. I didn't pick it for the group holiday because the location isn't suitable for beginners.

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:01:06 GMT

Not sure why people arent factoring in lift pass prices to this as without that you aint going skiing people ;-)

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:12:50 GMT

Hi AllyG
Unfortunately it is per person, :cry: but Chalet is first class. It caters for 14 but only 11 are going so we have to pay an extra over :twisted:

We have buns and cake, wine etc and we can ski back to the chalet but prefer to go straight to the pub.

We can only go in School holidays as our youngest is 15, but our eldest is 19 and at uni, hopefully it won't be to long before eldest is wanting to pay for himself :shock:

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:14:01 GMT

smartski wrote:

Ignoring hire, lift pass, lessons and uk costs as these are all optional/personal; or at least can be arranged whether you are with a T/O or self org.

I've ignored lunch cost as well for the moment. Personally I find the size of breakfast & eve meal negates the need for much lunch.

Has anyone any good/direct DIY comparables?

Tony,
I was following Smartski's format, which I thought was pretty sensible. I mean, we all have to pay for the lift passes, so I don't reckon they're worth mentioning, unless you can get a deal like 2 passes for the price of one, or something with a TO.

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:19:28 GMT

snowy0000 wrote:Hi AllyG
Unfortunately it is per person, :cry: but Chalet is first class. It caters for 14 but only 11 are going so we have to pay an extra over :twisted:

We have buns and cake, wine etc and we can ski back to the chalet but prefer to go straight to the pub.

We can only go in School holidays as our youngest is 15, but our eldest is 19 and at uni, hopefully it won't be to long before eldest is wanting to pay for himself :shock:

Oh dear, about the price. Have you thought about advertising the free places in the chalet - or do you only want to share with friends and family?

At least your eldest is willing to ski with you. My younger daughter is off ski-ing with her uni before Christmas, and I don't know whether she'll have time to go ski-ing with me on another holiday :cry:

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:10:09 GMT

Sometimes lift passes aren't an absoloute killer.
For instance last year we stayed in Les Houches.
A family lift pass is 2 adults and 1 child then additional children (max 4) are free.
And children are classed as up to 18.
As Les Hlouches wasn't enough skiing for a week for us we bought passes fror the other areas. Again same family pass, except the age limit was 15.
At no point whatsoever were we asked for proof of age of the children or proof of family link. And we bought tickets in Les Houches, Argentiere and La Flegere.
A Les Houches family pass for 6 days Costs Euro527.30 for next season.

Obviously not everyone's cup of tea as not a massive area, but brilliamt for a family wantng to try out skiing and thinking of doing DIY.
And it's a stunning ski are with trees to ski through and the Kandahar world cup run as well.

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:17:32 GMT

Dids,
You certainly got a bargain on your family pass for Les Houche!

But I think that's maybe one of the reasons Smartski didn't include the cost of lift passes - they're too complex!

I mean, I looked up the area of Les Houche and apparently it's only got 55Km of piste. So, while this would be great for a beginner, or an early intermediate, most people would be wanting a larger area than this, like you did.

So, if we were to include the cost of lift passes in our pricing on this thread we'd have to research the Km of piste covered by each pass (and there could be several for different parts of a huge area), and how the prices vary according to your age/family group/loyalty discount, and possibly even what sort of lifts you're getting for your money - like whether they're very old slow drag lifts or super fast cable cars etc. etc.

And another thing we'd have to think about would be the number of free lifts for beginners, or whether there are special beginners passes, or pedestrian passes so that people could meet up for lunch.

Plus, passes vary in price according to whether they're peak season or not, and sometimes they include a day away in another resort.

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:08:38 GMT

Hi All

Thought I'd weigh in on this one:

3rd week Jan (so out of school hols) to VDI
Ski in / out accomodation (and that's not subjective - been there and done it)
Chalet board including tea/cakes, cocktails and aperitifs before dinner, choice of two whites and two reds, brekkie and (perhaps crucially) help yourself to leftover bread/meat/cheese/fruit etc for a packed lunch (like other posters I'm not a big lunch eater in the mountains)
Private transfers to/from Geneva
BOGOF on ski hire
BOGOHP on FULL AREA lift pass
Free Ski Guiding (if the test case in Meribel doesn't scupper that)

Booked early as we knew what we wanted, booked for 8 so got a deal

BUT

paid GBP750 pp from Inghams

now that's cheap by anyone's standards in one of the biggest/best ski areas in the world

so the TOs can be cheap

I won't be "herded like cattle" with my private transfers - though I've never felt that
I have flights at a sensible time from the airport I want (which I can reach in minutes for pennies thanks to Newcastle's Metro)
I dont have to worry about things like chains/tyres/high viz etc for the car
Somebody else does the cooking
Somebody else does the cleaning

All in all - for me and my group, this is a no brainer compared to DIY of pretty much any sort but certainly than going self catering (yuk!)

Just my thoughts anyway

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:16:54 GMT

Sounds great.
Don't get me wrong. DIY is at the moment a neccessity.
I would much rather go in a group, no cooking, no cleanng, no snow chains etc, etc....
I just find whilst needs must I can do it cheaper because we've been tied to the school holidays.

I have no desire to tell anyone the best way to take a holiday, but if someone asks for advice or experiences and I have any to offer I will.

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:17:41 GMT

AllyG wrote:

Dave Mac wrote:
Free flights.
return train fare 52 Eu.
Hitched up the mountain, got a lift back.
b&b, 24 Eu/night. 168 Eu
Lift pass 36 Eu, (One sixth of a season pass.)
Total: 251 Eu, about GBP200.

Dave Mac,
That sounds pretty cheap to me :thumbup:

If anyone is looking for a cheap catered chalet (no flights or anything included) for January, Bonjour have built a new one called Pere Marie in Le Pre, les Arcs, and it's only GBP299 all through January and GBP399 for the 3rd February. I didn't pick it for the group holiday because the location isn't suitable for beginners.

I'll have a butchers at that one Ally, thanks :)

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:17:49 GMT

Dids1 wrote:Sounds great.
Don't get me wrong. DIY is at the moment a neccessity.
I would much rather go in a group, no cooking, no cleanng, no snow chains etc, etc....
I just find whilst needs must I can do it cheaper because we've been tied to the school holidays.

I have no desire to tell anyone the best way to take a holiday, but if someone asks for advice or experiences and I have any to offer I will.

Which is all that anyone could ever want from these pages :-)

Commiserations on the school holiday tie-in - we have no sprogs so are free and easy on dates, we've lost some great peeps from our group due to holidays - we simply don't want to pay those prices when we don't have to so have to go at different times to friends with kids and/or who are teachers

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:29:27 GMT

We're almost there - we pretty much aren't tied to school holidays this year actually, but a trip to Corfu in April is possibly putting a dampener on any ski plans.

Have to say in all our DIY holidays though we've been to some pretty well known resorts. 3 vallrys, Grand Massif, Les Saisies, Les Houches...(and skied the whole of Chamonix area)

I wouldn't budget to the point of going somewhere like Bulgaria. I just really wouldn't fancy it.
I'd rather tailor make my budgeting!

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:49:46 GMT

Tony_H wrote:Not sure why people arent factoring in lift pass prices to this as without that you aint going skiing people ;-)

The lift pass price is nothing to do with the TO - everyone has the freedom to buy direct or through an agent.

It isn't about the "total" cost, this thread started with an observation that TOs are "REALLY" expensive.

nellyps wrote: Or does there not appear to be much choice with the TOs this year and everything is REALLY expensive?

I disagree, and thought it interesting to see if we can directly compare TOs with DIY
(excluding Ski-hire, lessons, lift-passes and other add-ons that are equally available to both package and DIYers.)

I am on a TO package at GBP590
AllyG is on "semi-DIY" GBP554
("semi" because I don't class catered as full DIY)

So looking for a comparable of FULL DIY (UK to large french resort, self catering, during non-school hols, winter 2013) to see just how much can be saved.

Anyone?

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:51:45 GMT

andyoneil wrote:
Chalet board including tea/cakes, cocktails and aperitifs before dinner, choice of two whites and two reds, brekkie and (perhaps crucially) help yourself to leftover bread/meat/cheese/fruit etc for a packed lunch ...

paid GBP750 pp from Inghams

I really like the sound of the breakfast leftovers going in your picnic lunch :thumbup:

What a good idea! I wonder if our chalet would let us do this?

And your price with flights, transfers, and lift pass is almost exactly the same as ours for anyone getting the cheapest flights - ours comes to GBP742, before the group discount.

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:59:52 GMT

AllyG wrote:

andyoneil wrote:
Chalet board including tea/cakes, cocktails and aperitifs before dinner, choice of two whites and two reds, brekkie and (perhaps crucially) help yourself to leftover bread/meat/cheese/fruit etc for a packed lunch ...

paid GBP750 pp from Inghams

I really like the sound of the breakfast leftovers going in your picnic lunch :thumbup:

What a good idea! I wonder if our chalet would let us do this?

It's frowned upon in my experience. But I'm sure very easy in the larger "chalet-hotels".

Some chalet staff have little enterprises on the side, I think we've paid them about 3 Euro/day for them to make us baguette lunches before.

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:04:24 GMT

smartski wrote:
It's frowned upon in my experience. But I'm sure very easy in the larger "chalet-hotels".

Some chalet staff have little enterprises on the side, I think we've paid them about 3 Euro/day for them to make us baguette lunches before.

Definitely not frowned upon in this 10 person Inghams chalet as we did exactly this last year in that chalet at the urging of the chalet staff "it'll only get thrown out" was their cry!

Crystal do a "Mountain Munchies" and charge you for preparing the sandwich but this was DIY (to confuse the thread somewhat!)

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:57:37 GMT

I mentioned lift passes as that's crucial for working out the total cost of a trip which I reiterate costs me pretty much GBP1000 all in with TO package, one of which included club med to at moritz :-)

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:58:31 GMT

One well-known hotel in a very well-loved (and unloved) resort, has the sign over the breakfast bar: "please leave the dining room with a full stomach and empty hands!"

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:43:40 GMT

AllyG wrote:

I really like the sound of the breakfast leftovers going in your picnic lunch :thumbup:

:shock: :shock:

Ugh, egg yolk, milk and muesli all dripping out the bottom of my back pack. No thanks :twisted:

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:49:52 GMT

Far Queue wrote:

Ugh, egg yolk, milk and muesli all dripping out the bottom of my back pack. No thanks :twisted:

And two mushed up bananas that always seem to end up in my back pack, nothing else, my wife seems to always grab a couple after breakfast,and they are always there at the end of the day :D

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:56:14 GMT

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a sandwich made with toast, and cheese in the middle of it. The tea, milk, and muesli I will be carrying in mon estomac :lol:

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:36:42 GMT

smartski wrote:

Tony_H wrote:Not sure why people arent factoring in lift pass prices to this as without that you aint going skiing people ;-)

The lift pass price is nothing to do with the TO - everyone has the freedom to buy direct or through an agent.

It isn't about the "total" cost, this thread started with an observation that TOs are "REALLY" expensive.

nellyps wrote: Or does there not appear to be much choice with the TOs this year and everything is REALLY expensive?

I disagree, and thought it interesting to see if we can directly compare TOs with DIY
(excluding Ski-hire, lessons, lift-passes and other add-ons that are equally available to both package and DIYers.)

I am on a TO package at GBP590
AllyG is on "semi-DIY" GBP554
("semi" because I don't class catered as full DIY)

So looking for a comparable of FULL DIY (UK to large french resort, self catering, during non-school hols, winter 2013) to see just how much can be saved.

Anyone?

What month are these prices base on SS?

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:48:59 GMT

WIBBLE???? :roll:

Re:Is it just me?

Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:38:12 GMT

NellyPS wrote:

smartski wrote:

Tony_H wrote:Not sure why people arent factoring in lift pass prices to this as without that you aint going skiing people ;-)

The lift pass price is nothing to do with the TO - everyone has the freedom to buy direct or through an agent.

It isn't about the "total" cost, this thread started with an observation that TOs are "REALLY" expensive.

nellyps wrote: Or does there not appear to be much choice with the TOs this year and everything is REALLY expensive?

I disagree, and thought it interesting to see if we can directly compare TOs with DIY
(excluding Ski-hire, lessons, lift-passes and other add-ons that are equally available to both package and DIYers.)

I am on a TO package at GBP590
AllyG is on "semi-DIY" GBP554
("semi" because I don't class catered as full DIY)

So looking for a comparable of FULL DIY (UK to large french resort, self catering, during non-school hols, winter 2013) to see just how much can be saved.

Anyone?

What month are these prices base on SS?

January (6th for mine 13th? I think for AllyG's)

Re:Is it just me?

Tue, 16 Oct 2012 21:59:30 GMT

One skiing holiday, booked. 'Semi' DIY as in I booked everything separately, no TOs this year. How novel.

Plagne 1800 by train arriving 9 Feb.

Webcam watching and sleep counting can officially begin.

Re:Is it just me?

Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:34:54 GMT

Well done Nelly :D

How much did you pay for it?

Re:Is it just me?

Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:20:54 GMT

AllyG wrote:Well done Nelly :D

How much did you pay for it?

GBP588 each for half board and train. It's in a chalet-hotel which has everything we like (afternoon tea and cake, wine with diner and a bar for apres ski if we don't want cake), just doesn't include transfers but can sort that myself.

8 days skiing too :)

Re:Is it just me?

Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:41:37 GMT

NellyPS wrote:One skiing holiday, booked. 'Semi' DIY as in I booked everything separately, no TOs this year. How novel.

Plagne 1800 by train arriving 9 Feb.

Webcam watching and sleep counting can officially begin.

Heres the ones that i used when i went to La Plagne. We are Skiing again on 9th Feb, first choice is La Clusaz but it looks like the apartments i was thinking of have now sold out :-)
We enjoyed Belle Plagne when we went and could be a possibility that week too.....See you in The Spitting Feathers for a beer?

http://laplagne.livecam360.com/grande-rochette/flash/main.php
http://www.trinum.com/ibox/montalbert/webcam/webcam_panoramique.htm
http://pv.viewsurf.com/?id=60
http://www.la-plagne.com/fr/hiver/autres/webcams.html
http://www.intersport-paradiski.com/webcam.php
http://www.la-plagne.com/plagne_go/plagne.html

Re:Is it just me?

Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:51:32 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:

NellyPS wrote:One skiing holiday, booked. 'Semi' DIY as in I booked everything separately, no TOs this year. How novel.

Plagne 1800 by train arriving 9 Feb.

Webcam watching and sleep counting can officially begin.

Heres the ones that i used when i went to La Plagne. We are Skiing again on 9th Feb, first choice is La Clusaz but it looks like the apartments i was thinking of have now sold out :-)
We enjoyed Belle Plagne when we went and could be a possibility that week too.....See you in The Spitting Feathers for a beer?

http://laplagne.livecam360.com/grande-rochette/flash/main.php
http://www.trinum.com/ibox/montalbert/webcam/webcam_panoramique.htm
http://pv.viewsurf.com/?id=60
http://www.la-plagne.com/fr/hiver/autres/webcams.html
http://www.intersport-paradiski.com/webcam.php
http://www.la-plagne.com/plagne_go/plagne.html

It's a date! (not really, but you know what I mean). Now I can annoy you for the next 114 days asking you ridiculous questions.

Re:Is it just me?

Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:07:22 GMT

NellyPS wrote:

AllyG wrote:Well done Nelly :D

How much did you pay for it?

GBP588 each for half board and train. It's in a chalet-hotel which has everything we like (afternoon tea and cake, wine with diner and a bar for apres ski if we don't want cake), just doesn't include transfers but can sort that myself.

8 days skiing too :)

That's a pretty good price Nelly :thumbup:

And I should think the transfers will be cheap enough, if they're just from the railway station - bus or taxi.

Re:Is it just me?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 22:13:54 GMT

We are in a different situation as we live in the south of France so don't have the same transport issues.

We are off to Vars for Christmas week in a full board hotel that is ski - out/in, includes full area lift pass (Vars and Risoul) pls all equipment and it comes out at GBP620 pp if you pay full price (we are vvvvvv lucky to get 40% off that!!)

Last year we did a week in Tignes Val Claret in the Maeva apartment there. Most of the cost were the lift passes and ski school for the kids. That is what makes the trips expensive and why the Vars trips are so good value for money!!

For us I guess we do both as the Vars trips are booked though DH's company so are a bit TOed but everything else
we do are DIY.

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 08:26:30 GMT

AllyG wrote:Well done Nelly :D

And I should think the transfers will be cheap enough, if they're just from the railway station - bus or taxi.

The Eurostar arrives at Aime about 6 am and the first bus goes at 7.30.am the tcket office opens just before this..return tickets are cheaper but you have to give a return departure time..we bought in the resort later...if you have to check out early there is an excellent left luggage in Plagne centre opposite the bus office and you can ski till the afternoon..you have to catch a train from Aime to Bourg and hang about till it {snowtrain)departs,,there's an excellent pizza place across the staion car park

Re:Is it just me?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:39:07 GMT

Thanks Daved that's really useful to know :)