Latest posts for the topic "Non Smoking"

Non Smoking

Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:26:29 GMT

Sorry for being a little naive with this one but could anyone tell me if it is non smoking in public places in Italy now. Having skied France for the last 8 years, I feel it's time for a change but have awful memories of Obergurgl Austria years ago constantly choking on smoke in every bar and hotel you could find.
I promise this isn't a jibe at smokers I just can't stand it personally.
Many Thanks in advance.

Re:Non Smoking

Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:55:42 GMT

Yes, definitely and for I think longer than France has been.

Re:Non Smoking

Mon, 16 Jan 2012 19:15:34 GMT

But like in France ...no one takes much notice :mrgreen:

Re:Non Smoking

Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:04:27 GMT

Is Austia Non smoking in bars now?

Re:Non Smoking

Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:15:57 GMT

cc7up wrote:Is Austia Non smoking in bars now?

Unfortunately and inexplicably, no. If the French and Italians can manage it, its extraordinary that the Austrians haven't followed suit.

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 07:00:01 GMT

Perhaps it's because they are more resistant to the anshluss of big brother style dictatorship spreading (this time) out of Brussels.

Imo, On many subjects, as well as the smoking ban,The EEC Club have interfered in how we live our lives and i for one would like the UK to leave the EEC.

What will they ban next that You might like but others don't, Just because they can?

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:01:54 GMT

Sorry, know this was posted on the Italian forum but in reply to cc7up. No, and although it should be the Austrians choice I have to say its the one negative about skiing there. I'm off there next week, love the country, food, apres, people etc, dislike that every bar is fog like.

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:11:07 GMT

cc7up wrote:Perhaps it's because they are more resistant to the anshluss of big brother style dictatorship spreading (this time) out of Brussels.

Imo, On many subjects, as well as the smoking ban,The EEC Club have interfered in how we live our lives and i for one would like the UK to leave the EEC.

What will they ban next that You might like but others don't, Just because they can?

Its funny how people love to blame Brussels for lots of things they dont like. The smoking bans have nothing to do with the EU. Where they apply, they were decided by domestic governments. The fact that some countries have them and others dont should have been a clue :shock:

On the more general point, I do not want to see nanny-style interferences in my private choices. The problem with smoking is that one individual's choice does interfere with other people. Its a bit like the off-piste argument. Nobody wants going off-piste banned but it is essential that anyone doing so has regard for the safety of others and dont set off avalanches on people lower down the mountain :evil:

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:26:30 GMT

Agreed. Not easy to light up in an avalanche.

:P

There should have been a choice of smoking bars and non smoking bars left up to the discretion of the landlord.

Austria appears to have taken that route.

What next then,Compulsary wearing of Helmets for everyone in all resorts endorced by winter sport Insurance companys refusing to pay out for injuries incurred if not wearing a Helmet whilst skiing/Boarding?
I wear one through personal choice but that is My choice. Others also have a choice - at the moment.

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:55:30 GMT

cc7up wrote:Agreed. Not easy to light up in an avalanche.

:P

There should have been a choice of smoking bars and non smoking bars left up to the discretion of the landlord.

Austria appears to have taken that route.

What next then,Compulsary wearing of Helmets for everyone in all resorts endorced by winter sport Insurance companys refusing to pay out for injuries incurred if not wearing a Helmet whilst skiing/Boarding?
I wear one through personal choice but that is My choice. Others also have a choice - at the moment.

DONT ****ING START THIS AGAIN!!!!!

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:58:00 GMT

The good thing about smoking ban is that now you can spend a night out in a club and go home not smellling like an ashtray - even smokers like that.

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:15:00 GMT

Insurance companies are entitled to give their terms and conditions re helmet. If you get a head injury(like a concussion) that could have been avoided had you been wearing a helmet they can refuse to pay because in a way you are blatantly taking a known risk and shifting it onto insurance company and its other clients who pay the same premium but not taking this risk. I don't want to re-start this debate because it's quite pointless. I am all up for individual choices, but I think it's fair for individuals to pay for their choices. I think whether insurance covers head injuries should be dependant on wearing a helmet, and at least premiums should be different for those who wear helmets and those who don't.

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:42:56 GMT

verbier_ski_bum wrote: I think whether insurance covers head injuries should be dependant on wearing a helmet, and at least premiums should be different for those who wear helmets and those who don't.

Why? The risk of collision is actually no greater whether you wear a helmet or not. I fully accept that if you fall and hit your head the chances of the injury are reduced by wearing one, but the risk is still excatly the same. Thats what insurance is, covering a risk.

Re:Non Smoking

Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:41:13 GMT

verbier_ski_bum wrote:The good thing about smoking ban is that now you can spend a night out in a club and go home not smellling like an ashtray - even smokers like that.

Not as much as they liked smoking in a club.

Re:Non Smoking

Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:45:31 GMT

but if you ski without a helmet you are only harming yourself. If you smoke indoors you are harming others. I smoked for years but I NEVER smoked indoors, even before the ban came in. EG when we used to go to haven parks, smoking was allowed and I HATED taking my kids in. It was lovely when it was banned. I dont want my kids breathing in cig smoke, sorry.I know kids dont go in bars generally, but if you stay in a hotel with a bar then the smoke will diffuse thru the hotel. A separate room is a joke. Anyone, not just a Biologist can explain the laws of diffusion

Re:Non Smoking

Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:53:20 GMT

Discodee wrote:but if you ski without a helmet you are only harming yourself. If you smoke indoors you are harming others. I smoked for years but I NEVER smoked indoors, even before the ban came in. EG when we used to go to haven parks, smoking was allowed and I HATED taking my kids in. It was lovely when it was banned. I dont want my kids breathing in cig smoke, sorry.I know kids dont go in bars generally, but if you stay in a hotel with a bar then the smoke will diffuse thru the hotel. A separate room is a joke. Anyone, not just a Biologist can explain the laws of diffusion

I agree, however given that smoking is not illegal then shouldn't people who smoke be treated with some small amount of dignity instead of being made to stand out on the street. What about banning it from the majority of places but still allowing a small amount of places to be 'smokers bars'. Everyone has a choice then. Simples!

Re:Non Smoking

Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:03:26 GMT

I know what you mean, but it honestly never bothered me having to go outside. Like I said I ALWAYS went outside to smoke, even before it was law. I didn't smoke in my house, so didn't smoke indoors anywhere else.I'd never stand in the doorway either! I always went right up the garden or the smoke all went in the house! But I do agree that some bars could be smokers bars. In fact I have often said, the "old" system, when I was a lass lol, there was a lounge and a bar in most pubs, and you could have had the bar for smokers. However it seems to be trendy to knock em all though to one these days. I have no objection whatsover to having smokers bars. I just think anywhere where there are children staying should be non smoking

Re:Non Smoking

Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:18:08 GMT

Looks like we agree on that then! Shame the people with the power don't seem able to reach a sensible compromise.

I never smoked outdoors, for me it was about sitting down relaxing with a cup of coffee...Or a few alcoholic drinks.

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:40:21 GMT

The situation that annoys me is you stop for lunch its blowing a blizzard and its minus 20. myself and a few other foolish outside smoking its ok everybody warm inside.the next day nice and sunny everybody now outside having there lunch.so where does the smoker go now. As a smoker it has always annoyed myself if whilst eating someone nearby is smoking and try too be sympathethic to others but it can be impossible on a busy veranda.and on occasions had families come and share the table and then complain if I light a cigarette. I leave the pack on the table for a reason in plain sightfor a reason

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:43:32 GMT

If you are smoking outside then people should move away. The only place outdoors I don't agree wiht it is in a queue where you can't move. Eg at Alton Towers. (It IS banned in queues but they don't enforce it. If you're in the middle of an hour long queue and someone nearby is smoking, the smoke goes all over the kids. You can't move em!

Snowb4ndit, I too enjoyed a fag with a coffee or drink, but I took the drink outside with me lol

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:54:26 GMT

The reason a smoking ban in bars and restaurants is important, is because bars will not risk losing business by being smoke free. Sounds old fashioned, and you would think a smoke free bar would do well, but no one will take the chance unless all businesses are made to do the same. The big worry for the insurance industry are the claims for smoke related diseases by people who have worked in bars and restaurants. Bars are like any other work place and workers should not be exposed to harmful chemicals. It a changing world.

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:19:33 GMT

Discodee wrote:If you are smoking outside then people should move away. The only place outdoors I don't agree wiht it is in a queue where you can't move. Eg at Alton Towers. (It IS banned in queues but they don't enforce it. If you're in the middle of an hour long queue and someone nearby is smoking, the smoke goes all over the kids. You can't move em!

Snowb4ndit, I too enjoyed a fag with a coffee or drink, but I took the drink outside with me lol

Each to their own, I physically did not like smoking outside, I don't know why but what I was enhaling just didn't seem the same outside unless the air was as hot as inside.

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:30:25 GMT

Trencher wrote:The reason a smoking ban in bars and restaurants is important, is because bars will not risk losing business by being smoke free. Sounds old fashioned, and you would think a smoke free bar would do well, but no one will take the chance unless all businesses are made to do the same. The big worry for the insurance industry are the claims for smoke related diseases by people who have worked in bars and restaurants. Bars are like any other work place and workers should not be exposed to harmful chemicals. It a changing world.

It could be controlled with licences.

All the people who work in my local pub smoke and have to go outside for their fag break, given the choice (and they would be very happy with a choice) I am sure they would chosse to work in a smoking bar. With license controlled smoking bars non smoking staff would still have a choice of smoke free bars.

Unfortunately many non smokers (and I know it's not all) seem to think that they are cut above the rest and that everywhere should be to their liking. People who smoke have made a lifestyle choice, it doesn't have to affect others. Live and let live is what I say.

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:43:04 GMT

Unfortunately no bar will be willing choose to risk loss of business by being the first to go smoke free. So effectively, there is no choice. On the occasions I indulge in a cigarette, I do it outside, +40 or -20. I would never want to inflict carcinogenic chemicals on others. Fortunately no one was ever addicted to asbestos and DDT, or we would be arguing over those as well.

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:53:38 GMT

Trencher wrote:Unfortunately no bar will be willing choose to risk loss of business by being the first to go smoke free. So effectively, there is no choice. On the occasions I indulge in a cigarette, I do it outside, +40 or -20. I would never want to inflict carcinogenic chemicals on others. Fortunately no one was ever addicted to asbestos and DDT, or we would be arguing over those as well.

I agree that no bar would be willing and I am sure they would all apply for a license. But what would be beyond their control would be how many licenses available and who got them. Easy peasy...a small percentage of smoking bars only in each town would get a lisence. As a smoker I would have been quite willing to walk an extra mile to get to a smoking bar.

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:55:02 GMT

Y'know what, I was not going to not mention this, but as snowb4nit said, many non smokers think they're a cut above, so thpught I would!
I, a smoker for yrs until about 12 mths ago, while being worried about my kids breathing in smoke are far more worried about 2 other things:
1 is mobile phone masts and all the radiation emitted, which is FAR more dangerous than ciggie smoke, yet use of other people's mobiles is out of my control, and it doesn't matter WHERE you are, you are exposed to it! (And all these hypocrites campaigning against masts nearby annoy me. How do they think their bloody phones work? It's a "not on my front doot mentallity")
Secondly, despite rising fuel costs and everyone moaning, the vast majority drive to the local shop half a mile away, drive their kids to school (even in high school) a mile or two away and the thing that REALLY annoys me, they sit in their stationary car with the engine running. Car exhausts emit FAR more crap than a ciggie.
Don't believe me? Sit in a car with a smoker for half an hour while they chain smoke. yes you will cough but you wont die.
then sit in a car with a hosepipe attached to the exhaust. of course, you won't live to tell the tale.....................
And no, I DON'T use a mobile generally. We have a family one we take away on journeys with us for emergencies and my dd takes it to school with her for the same reason, A fiver was put on it about 6 yrs ago and there is till GBP2. on it.
We have a family car which does 2.5k miles a yr. Both my kids walk over 2 miles to their grammar schools and at primary I walked 3 miles each day with them. My hubby cycles 5 miles to work.
So before non smokers who pollute everywhere with their cars and phones have a go, think on!! ..
OK, rant over. It's my pet hate!!

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 14:08:40 GMT

john987 wrote:The situation that annoys me is you stop for lunch its blowing a blizzard and its minus 20. myself and a few other foolish outside smoking its ok everybody warm inside.the next day nice and sunny everybody now outside having there lunch.so where does the smoker go now. As a smoker it has always annoyed myself if whilst eating someone nearby is smoking and try too be sympathethic to others but it can be impossible on a busy veranda.and on occasions had families come and share the table and then complain if I light a cigarette. I leave the pack on the table for a reason in plain sightfor a reason

That irritates the life out of me too. Non smokers who sit outside and still complain about the smoke. I feel like telling them to 'go forth and multiply' back inside where they have been awarded the smoke free haven they always wanted. The other thing is smoke actually dissipates very quickly outdoors so I doubt anyone is going to be affected anyway!

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 15:24:03 GMT

An interesting topic.

Of the two things I love above all else with skiing one is the sense of getting away from the grime and grind of the real world and ascending into an unspoiled landscape of breathtaking views and cool crisp air...

Now in a club or pub (where I may choose to go) I don't mind the smoke at all. Free choice 'n' all. In fact sometimes it adds (if you'll excuse the pun) to the atmosphere. I don't smoke but that's my choice and others are free to do what they wish.

I remember a trip up a beautiful drag lift last year. An old gent (an instructor no less) was smoking a cigar on the way up, and my word did it smell good. Blue skies, fresh piste and that subtle smell. Magical.

Conversely if I were at the only restaurant half way down a mountain run this type of attitude would irritate the hell out of me...

snowb4ndit wrote: ...Non smokers who sit outside and still complain about the smoke. I feel like telling them to 'go forth and multiply'...

If I'm a non smoker then I do indeed feel I have a right to sit outside, admire the view and enjoy my meal and not have someone else's second hand smoke waft all over me!! I fully respect an individual's right to do anything they please providing it doesn't impact on those around them.

Imagine I saw nothing particularly wrong in relieving myself up against a tree in a deserted forest. Now it would make an unpleasant smell, may well be offensive to others, may represent a heath risk, would disperse into the ground / air in a couple of minutes, but would probably put someone off their lunch. Now I might chose to do so in that deserted forest, but I wouldn't do it 2 feet away from a table with a family of four who are probably trying to enjoy the best week of their year that they've spend the last 51 weeks saving up for...

For me not inflicting my habits on others is just a respect thing, like not pushing in, or watching your language when there are kids around.

End of rant.

Owen.

Re:Non Smoking

Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:12:41 GMT

Maybe their should be a small non smoking area on terraces/ veranda so they can accommodate for all

Re:Non Smoking

Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:21:06 GMT

I always find it strange that if someone were to sit in other people's company and repeatedly fart they would be seen as rude. It wouldn't smell nice but there would be no health risks to the other people nearby. No-one has ever defended this behaviour to me.

If I were to light up a cigarette, which smells unpleasant, leaves a residual smell on the clothing of others and causes harm to the health of people in the vicinity, not just the carcinogenic side, there are other problems too, such as asthmatics. Some people will defend my right of choice 'til they're blue in the face.

If the hospitality industry had regulated itself a ban would have been much less likely. It refused to spend anything on self regulation. The ban came into effect. Pubs have spent plenty on smokers shelters, heaters, etc. Maybe they could have spent something on the 3/4 of their clients who didn't smoke a few years earlier?

All non-smoking areas I ever came across were a small minority of seating/floor space. Despite the majority of customers being non-smokers. Smokers are a vocal minority with a habit that is harmful to the health of others. Surely that harm merits a little consideration for others rather than an aggressive hard-done-to demeanour?

The first pub/restaurant in my town to ban smoking did a huge trade. Lots of smokers went in too. Volunteering to step outside to smoke.

Re:Non Smoking

Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:41:39 GMT

I don't smoke.

Re:Non Smoking

Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:43:49 GMT

How is that relevant? Points are either agreed with or disagreed with. Whether anyone smokes or not doesn't make them righter or wronger.

Edit: That response makes me think my post was aimed at you. It wasn't, it was my thoughts on all the previous posts.

Re:Non Smoking

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:03:35 GMT

And as I said Mekka, exhaust fumers and radiation from mobile phone masts are FAR worse than cig smoke, and we have to put up with them every day and can do nothing about them!!!

Re:Non Smoking

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:22:21 GMT

Unfortunately I don't know what the danger from mobile phone masts is as there has been no peer reviewed scientific study to provide any evidence of a direct link to a rise of cancers, etc in their vicinity.

Google will give you many statements from people claiming that their illnesses, dizzy spells, headaches are due to the local mast being erected. This has never been reproduced in a blind study.

Google will also give you the views of scientists who have studied the phenomenon and state they have found no evidence of harm.

Unfortunately people suffer from cancer due to a variety of contaminants, living close to a mast or not. Statistics compiled using control groups do not indicate that masts provide any extra danger.

It's a study that will continue, one which I'll follow with interest. However they are not proven to cause harm whereas passive smoking has been proven to.

Re:Non Smoking

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:21:01 GMT

but the problem is, if it IS proven it is too late to do anything and whereas I can make sure I do not take my kids into places where they will passively smoke, the danger (proven or unproven) from masts is unavoidable. Car exhaust fumes are highly carcinogenic and the toxic emissions from then are a million times more deadly than those from cigs. It is actually an offence to leave the engine running in ANY stationary vehicle with a max fine of GBP1000, yet it is never enforced. Another thing I just cannot keep my kids away from as it is everywhere. I appreciate we need cars to get about. However people could be more sensible. ie not use them for short journeys and NEVER leave the engine running when stationary.
So, I repeat, I can avoid smokers, I cannot avoid other far more dangerous things.