Latest posts for the topic "Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK"

Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:22:34 GMT

Where this claim was made by Travelsupermarket dot com

If you are not wearing a helmet while you are on the slopes, an increasing number of insurers are refusing to cover you for head injuries, and this can extend to other "appropriate clothing", said Bob Atkinson of Travelsupermarket.com.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/8946526/Your-guide-to-ski-insurance.html

Re:Disturbing Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:12:34 GMT

and God forbid that anyone should have "high spirits" while on the slopes :roll:

Re:Disturbing Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:51:18 GMT

Will someone please explain to me when it suddenly became much more dangerous to ski?

Re:Disturbing Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 15:02:30 GMT

Doesn't appear to be anything new in here.
The bit about insurance that worries me most is for the non ski/board savi who just take out insurance or, even worse, accept the travel operators insurance without realising the limitations of cover.
Every policy is a bit different and it's getting close to needing a degree in mountain activities just to be able to understand what is on offer.
There is little up front transparency from the insurers as to what is and isn't covered and the nitty gritty is hidden away in the small print, often on several pages, under different exclusions, inclusions, exceptions, terms etc etc etc.
Anyway rant over ....

Caveat Emptor as always is vital.

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:13:46 GMT

Or even worse take no insurance and rely on e111 for cover. That is more worrying!

More worrying than me currently on a train and smelling gravy!

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:20:12 GMT

Iceman wrote:
Or even worse take no insurance and rely on e111 for cover. That is more worrying!

More worrying than me currently on a train and smelling gravy!

Just define "appropriate clothing" for me will you :wink:

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:36:47 GMT

bandit wrote:[
Just define "appropriate clothing" for me will you :wink:

Well obviously some sort of fluorescent clothing rather than all black or all white will aid search and rescue :thumbup:

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:50:50 GMT

And another, possible, rant .....
Culture of claiming on insurance as an antidote to due care.
Culture of cheapest irespective of suitable for purpose.

Insurance is, in essence, a system of all paying a small amount to help a few who need help after and accident or in an unforseen emergency but the problems start when humans become involved.

Like ....
Someone close to home deciding it is OK to leave bike at the back of a hall and get a lift home - "if it's stolen it's covered by insurance".
Skier last winter laughing after trying to ski back down a closed area and completely trashing skis - "I need a new pair and they're insured".
Paralytic person falling of balcony - enormous repatriation and medical costs (story related by rep in resort)
Personal experience of the ludicrous insurance claims of holidaymakers and how the expectation was that as a rep in resort I would perjure myself so they got a pay out (remarkably common).

And on and on and on ........
I just want a company that will charge me a reasonable amount so that I can enjoy myself with all due and reasonable care and cover the costs after an accident or emergency that could not be foreseen.
The costs go up year on year even though I have never, not once, in my entire life claimed on holiday insurance - I do feel like I am subsidising a load of idiots, incompetents and drunks who fail to take any responsibility for their behaviours and actions and expect some nameles, faceless entity to sort everything out.

Rant over, I feel much better, thank you and I apologise to those of you who read the whole piece for wasting your time.
:D

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:58:30 GMT

Good rant Andy, I agree with you wholeheartedly. :thumbup:

What is a shame though, is that more and more frequently, the insurance companies themselves are not offering policies which are suitable for general use. I suspect they are simply hoping people will not read the small print, thus saving themselves large payouts.

Perhaps there should be an industry standard for different types of insurance, where if you picked a "ski" policy you would know that it will cover you for all the obvious things when you go skiing. Extras can always be bolted on for people who need something a bit more tailor made.

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 18:22:53 GMT

Andy I agree with you. What annoys me is that the insurance companies tend to DOUBLE the cost of insurance for me (ski insurance or non ski insurance) because of the declaration of my existing medical condition - epilepsy. However, with my car insurance, there is no extra premium. Why is that? :oops:

It is the mindset of, "its insured" like you say that causes a lot of problems. I have not claimed on my house insurance in over 15 years, it still goes up and up and up! Covering those people that "dropped their laptop down the stairs"

Sorry if I have upest anyone that genuinely did drop their laptop down the stairs or think that people with certain medical conditions should be off the road :roll: :twisted:

:D

Re:Disturbing Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:02:55 GMT

Tony_H wrote:Will someone please explain to me when it suddenly became much more dangerous to ski?

I have to agree with Andy on this one Tony.
I don't think its a case of Skiing becoming more dangerous its just that people are more willing to claim nowadays and insurance companies are now looking for ways to minimise payout by what ever means they can.

I think it would be fairer to offer discounts should you choose to wear protection or perhaps make non wearers pay a premium in a similar way we do to ski off piste (certain policies).

Re:Disturbing Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:30:19 GMT

Tony_H wrote:Will someone please explain to me when it suddenly became much more dangerous to ski?

Look at the footer of the J2ski website

"Warning:- Snow Sports are Dangerous The information on j2ski.com, where not clearly factual, is opinion only. It is not definitive, nor is it exhaustive and you must confirm it for yourself before you act upon it. Wherever and whenever you decide to ski, you do so entirely at your own risk. Skiing is an action sport with many dangers, which you must identify and accept before participating. If you do not accept these risks and your responsibility for understanding them - please do not ski."

Adders obviously thinks it is dangerous :thumbup:

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:59:24 GMT

Its always had the same dangers, in fact probably more so in the past with archaic lift systems, pistes in worse condition, and antiquated bindings and equipment.

I'm not going into the helmet debate again, but I dont know why people are suggesting its suddenly become more dangerous. I hear what youre saying about insurance companies, but its not fair to make us all look like muppets just because a few people have claimed on their insurance.

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:16:30 GMT

I'm not convinced that it is any more dangerous Tony, but other things have changed.

If by wearing some suitable clothing or equipment, it is possible to reduce the risk of injury to someone, then why should an insurance company not insist on it being worn? Perhaps they could offer a surcharge to those who don't wish to comply. However, I suspect it would be too large to really consider as an option.

Is having a car crash any more dangerous than several years ago? Probably not, with the better designs of cars and the addition of airbags, but we are still required to wear seatbelts.

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:35:18 GMT

At least we have (for the time being) the choice of buying travel insurance or not, unlike car insurance.

P.S Good rant Andy.

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:03:08 GMT

Tony_H wrote: Will someone please explain to me when it suddenly became much more dangerous to ski?

It's difficult to give a precise date. Carving skis, improved piste preparation, high speed lifts and the widespread use of artificial snow (artificial snow is denser than natural snow) have lead to an increase in the number of people on the slopes travelling at higher speeds than before. In bygone days skiing was a much more relaxed affair.

Even the top athletes didn't seem to go that fast in the straight ski era.

Around 2000 the hospitals here noticed an increase in the number of skiers /snowboarders being admitted with severe head injuries. In order to quantify the risk the Swiss Council for Accident Prevention commissioned research using crash dummies, one of their findings was that if you are knocked over and the back of your head hits the ground, it is possible for the head to be subject to an impact force large enough to cause a severe head injury (one with a head injury criterion of over 1000). In the same tests the head of the dummy wearing a helmet sustained a much lower impact force resulting in a HIC of about 200

http://www.eurailsafe.net/subsites/operas/HTML/Section3/Page3.3.1.4.htm

The article greatly under estimates the cost of a helicopter rescue, in Austria it's between 3000 and 5000 euro and in Switzerland between 3000 and 10,000 francs depending on whether a doctor has to attend. If they have to search for you then costs can rise to 50,000 francs. Manually searching an avalanche using probes and dogs, for someone without a transceiver costs up to 10,000 francs an hour.

Its always had the same dangers, in fact probably more so in the past with archaic lift systems, pistes in worse condition, and antiquated bindings and equipment.

Archaic lifts = more people queuing and riding the lifts and less people on the slopes. Pistes in worse condition = slower speeds especially on straight skis. Antiquated bindings, the basic mechanisms in ski bindings haven't changed in decades. Over 30% of all skiing injuries are knee injuries whereas only 9% of snowboarding injuries are knee injuries. IMO the real safety issue in skiing today is the inadequate protection afforded by current alpine release bindings against knee injuries.

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:36:56 GMT

Great post SwingBeep. I would also venture an even less quantifiable reason, that our expectations are very different. The skill development in most adventure sports is increasing exponentially. Many ordinary kids can do tricks in the park that would have been unthinkable for professionals twenty years ago. Our general exposure to media has allow us all to realise we are capable of things our parents would not have dreamed possible by ordinary people. Though in some ways equipment has enabled us to take greater risk, it is not the impetus.

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:17:48 GMT

OldAndy wrote:

And on and on and on ........
I just want a company that will charge me a reasonable amount so that I can enjoy myself with all due and reasonable care and cover the costs after an accident or emergency that could not be foreseen.
The costs go up year on year even though I have never, not once, in my entire life claimed on holiday insurance - I do feel like I am subsidising a load of idiots, incompetents and drunks who fail to take any responsibility for their behaviours and actions and expect some nameles, faceless entity to sort everything out.

Rant over, I feel much better, thank you and I apologise to those of you who read the whole piece for wasting your time.
:D

:thumbup: very well said Andy....

You would think in this day and age with all the different insurance there would be some scheme to help reduce a policy premium for those that are of a better standard, or shall we say play by/within the rules. BUT because there is not, it still proves that insurance will always just be another way to make easy money and try their damned hardest to get out of paying for claims.

But this is always going to be the case and so the argument will always continue. :twisted:

Re:Disturbing Insurance Article in Telegraph UK

Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:33:09 GMT

At the end of the day we all know how insurance companies operate whether its travel, house or car insurance they try and find tiny technicality to get out of making a pay out to you, so I wouldn't be surprised if they said you had to be wearing a helmet.