Latest posts for the topic "Neilson/Thomas cook"

Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:19:41 GMT

Just heard Thomas cooks value has decreased by 50% overnight due to financial concerns; do we need to be cautious about booking a holiday through them?

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:24:47 GMT

Just found this on the net ..... does not look good.

RNS Number : 5108S
Thomas Cook Group PLC
22 November 2011

22 November 2011

Thomas Cook Group Plc
Update

Thomas Cook Group plc announces that as a result of deterioration of trading in some areas of the business in the current quarter, and of its cash and liquidity position since its year end, the Company is in discussions with its principal lending banks with regard to its facilities during the seasonal low period of cash in the business.

While the Company currently remains in compliance with its financing covenants, it also intends to seek agreement from its lending banks to adjustments that will improve its resilience if trading conditions remain difficult.

As a result, the Company will delay its announcement of its full year results until these discussions are concluded. The Company expects to report a headline operating profit for the year ended 30 September 2011 broadly in line with previous guidance.

Enquiries:

Thomas Cook Group plc Investor Relations +44 (0) 20 7557 6414
Finsbury Faeth Birch +44 (0) 20 7251 3801

This information is provided by RNS
The company news service from the London Stock Exchange

RNS news service provided by Hemscott Group Limited.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:33:20 GMT

More info from the Guardian here.

I think the important bit is this :-

All customer orders are protected by the ATOL protection scheme and equivalent programmes

Definitely worth watching closely though.

Some interesting comments to the article above but I'd think a takeover would be a possible outcome?

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:07:07 GMT

Arent First choice linked to Thomas cook aswell??

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:55:45 GMT

Yeah, there is only a handful of actual TO

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:59:06 GMT

Oh crap, they better not mess with my holiday in January or I will be extremely piste off.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:00:15 GMT

I do belive that Crystal is part of that group too - think Its only Inghams of the "high street TO" thats any different

Big problem may be that a lot of smaller TOs use Thomas Cook/First Choice charters

If you're not booked with Squeezyjet/jet2 etc than now may be the time

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:00:19 GMT

Thay cancel all our holidays and we cant go. Then there is a huge dump of snow :oops:

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:03:51 GMT

andyoneil wrote:I do belive that Crystal is part of that group too - think Its only Inghams of the "high street TO" thats any different

Big problem may be that a lot of smaller TOs use Thomas Cook/First Choice charters

If you're not booked with Squeezyjet/jet2 etc than now may be the time

Yep crystal are part of TC aswell. I remember that I bad mouthed TC down the phone once only to be told they were also tarred with the same brush.

Whats the worst that could happen??

Dont suppose italy will be their best snow dest either at the mo

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:04:29 GMT

andyoneil wrote:
Big problem may be that a lot of smaller TOs use Thomas Cook/First Choice charters

Yep - this could be a major knock on - but I did have a quick look this morning and TC airtours, presumable the charter bit for flights is not directly linked.

Oh God !!!!
Just one more thing to worry about!

Adders - how is the worry bead production coming on?
Ready for market yet?

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:08:48 GMT

Weirdly I'm going Inghams this year and for the first time ever the flight isn't to Geneva from newcastle with TC at around 2pm - its a daft o'clock in the morning Jet2 to Chambery jobbie

I'm now triple grateful for this: shorter transfer, extra half day in resort and not affected by this news

Oh and there's snow in the Espace Killy.....

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:15:49 GMT

I don't think Thomas Cook is in the same group as Crystal and Thomson. They are in the TUI group - have a look at this link to see all the brands in their group and under T there is no Thomas Cook.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:16:39 GMT

Whoops - forgot to put the link ..........

http://www.tuitravelplc.com/tui/pages/brands

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:33:07 GMT

I hate to say it but I think theyre about to go pop.

Their markup on shares is only around 1% as opposed to the normal 5%.
Their directors havent drawn dividend payments either according to FT information.

The shares are rising slightly but profit on shares is still crap.

Apparently they are not allowed to gamble with money that hasnt been provided service for. Basically means if you havent had the holiday they have to bank it and cant spend it.
This money would then go to another company to deal with if they went to the wall.

If they dont have a friendly banker they could be in deep poo.

Lets hope it will be okay

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:53:40 GMT

This is a list of their brands and partner brands from their website. http://www.thomascook.com/brands/

Hope we still get to go in Feb. Who do we pray to?

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:24:29 GMT

As previously posted Crystal and First Choice are part of TUI (thomson) and NOT thomas cook......

Dont panic !!!!!! unless u booked with TC.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:17:05 GMT

Snapzzz wrote:As previously posted Crystal and First Choice are part of TUI (thomson) and NOT thomas cook......

yes - there was talk of a merger between the two not long ago but it obviously never happened - that's what's confused my very little brain :oops:

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:33:55 GMT

Don't panic, watch this video on Sky news if you want some re-assuring. If anything this is an opportunity if you are looking for some cheap shares that could re-bound big time in 2012!

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16115098

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:54:35 GMT

nuttynutnut wrote:Arent First choice linked to Thomas cook aswell??

Nope, part of TUI/Thomson

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:57:23 GMT

andyoneil wrote:I do belive that Crystal is part of that group too - think Its only Inghams of the "high street TO" thats any different

Big problem may be that a lot of smaller TOs use Thomas Cook/First Choice charters

If you're not booked with Squeezyjet/jet2 etc than now may be the time

Nope, Crystal belong to TUI as well as Thomson.

You'll find the majority of charter flights to ski airports are Thomson Airways (swallowed up First Choice a couple of years ago), Thomas Cook Airways (I was told they were in trouble last June but didn't realise to what extent), Monarch Airlines (independent) or another airlines aircraft thats been chartered such as Flybe or Austrian Airlines for example.

TUI Group are First Choice, Crystal and Thomson for skiing.
Thomas Cook is Neilson.

Inghams are nothing to do with either of them.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:01:15 GMT

Thomas Cook also bought the MyTravel business, along with Panorama a few years back. That might be something to do with their problems maybe?

Last I heard this morning, TCook share price was down 68%!!!!

Looks to me its take over time, or if not they may be the first of the predicted collapse, which would only start a domino effect. Same as football clubs, once one big one goes, others will follow.

Its the beginning of melt down guys.....the world is on the verge of collapse. Financial disaster, natural events (tsunamis, earthquakes), civil unrest and revolution in the middle east.......

.....beware 21.12.12!!!!!

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:03:55 GMT

Guess were all doomed then.
Lets get into serious debt and then ask the banks for a bail out.
I think they would tell us where to go

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:04:46 GMT

nuttynutnut wrote:Guess were all doomed then.
Lets get into serious debt and then ask the banks for a bail out.

Erm not sure which rock you've been hiding under.....the northern one maybe.....but thats precisely whats been going on this past 10 years or so.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:14:50 GMT

Tony_H wrote:

nuttynutnut wrote:Guess were all doomed then.
Lets get into serious debt and then ask the banks for a bail out.

Erm not sure which rock you've been hiding under.....the northern one maybe.....but thats precisely whats been going on this past 10 years or so.

You mean were in trouble aswell??

Oh S**t and f**k.

Thats why the bank wont lend me the billions I asked for so I could go to another country and fight other peoples problems.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:18:28 GMT

Very glad we're booked up with Skiworld!

Any business of that size in debt to the tune of a billion pounds it at best in for a very rocky future, at worst no future at all.

The next few weeks following these reports will be crucial. If people stop booking with them the business will collapse.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:19:45 GMT

andyhull wrote:
The next few weeks following these reports will be crucial. If people stop booking with them the business will collapse.

Would you book with them now?
They are finished for sure.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:33:07 GMT

I hope people do continue to book with them, there are 30,000 jobs on the line.

Annual turnover is GBP3.4 billion. Staff costs of around a billion. Pre tax loss reported in March of GBP269M

Drop in share price means business now worth only GBP87.5M

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:39:33 GMT

andyhull wrote:I hope people do continue to book with them, there are 30,000 jobs on the line.

Annual turnover is GBP3.4 billion. Staff costs of around a billion. Pre tax loss reported in March of GBP269M

Drop in share price means business now worth only GBP87.5M

Ahhhh but that wasn't what i asked Andy....

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:44:11 GMT

Protected by ATOL or not, you wouldnt find me spending my hard earned beans with them :thumbup:

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:46:29 GMT

I'd be surprised if the brand disapeared - possible take over, yes.

But would I book????
Probably not at the moment - enough uncertainty around holidays as it is without tempting fate.
Also - I wonder when the travel insurers cut off about claims would come in as they don't cover for anything you could have known about before you book or travel in most cases.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:52:39 GMT

I wouldn't have booked through them before they reported this.

I used to book through them, but stopped following one or two problems. They weren't geared up for booking big groups (20-50 places). With that many people things change, they wanted to charge every time.
In contrast Skiworld make it all so easy!

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:21:10 GMT

I hope all that have booked with them still get their hol's with snow too.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:11:12 GMT

andyoneil wrote:I do belive that Crystal is part of that group too - think Its only Inghams of the "high street TO" thats any different

Big problem may be that a lot of smaller TOs use Thomas Cook/First Choice charters

If you're not booked with Squeezyjet/jet2 etc than now may be the time

Crystal, Ski Alpine, Off the Piste, Hayes & Jarvis and Thomsons are part of Tui, Germany.

I have GBP6k of travel booked thro Thomas Cook. I checked them out before parting with the gelt.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:23:41 GMT

I find this news about Thomas Cook very worrying, not for me personally, but for the ski industry and particularly anyone connected with Thomas Cook.

I hope they weather this storm and everyone gets their holidays okay.

It's not always easy to know who you're actually booked with. Like, for example, I booked our accommodation through Igluski. The owner of the accommodation is Pierre et Vacances, but Igluski booked it through Ski Horizon who, they assure me, are an independant tour operator. However, we booked our train tickets directly with Eurostar.

Even if Thomas Cook went bust and all the customers of Thomas Cook got their money back, that's not really the point, as the customers want their holidays and the providers of the holiday accommodation etc. all want their money.

If the worst comes to the worst, who is big enough and has enough money to take over Thomas Cook?

Ally

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:04:07 GMT

:shock:

Hmm, Mr Admin..

How about a J2SKI holiday company. )

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:11:52 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:

andyoneil wrote:I do belive that Crystal is part of that group too - think Its only Inghams of the "high street TO" thats any different

Big problem may be that a lot of smaller TOs use Thomas Cook/First Choice charters

If you're not booked with Squeezyjet/jet2 etc than now may be the time

Crystal, Ski Alpine, Off the Piste, Hayes & Jarvis and Thomsons are part of Tui, Germany.

I have GBP6k of travel booked thro Thomas Cook. I checked them out before parting with the gelt.

Is there an echo in here?

When you say "I checked them out...." what do you mean? Did you ask for their last set of accounts?

Personally, I would not book through Thomas Cook now I know what their situation is like. I have never only once taken a ski holiday with Neilson flying with Thomas Cook Airlines.

Interestingly, T Cook Airlines have an old fleet, with only a small number of new planes on order, which are A321 Airbuses to replace the ageing Boeing 757's (lovely old plane, but if anyone has flown on a T Cook 757 they won't be sorry to see them go....), and no investment has been made into their fleet for a long time prior to this.
I do believe they inherited the MyTravel fleet when the groups merged, not sure what happened to them, but I would have thought the same as what happened with the FCA fleet when they merged with Thomsonfly to create Thomson Airways. You still see a few old FCA livery planes, but I haven't see a MyTravel plane for a couple of years now.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:12:16 GMT

Far Queue wrote:How about a J2SKI holiday company. )

Sounds like a plan... I think I should mention the Billion Pound Debt to my bank first though, before offering GBP3.50 for TC.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:23:59 GMT

AllyG wrote:

If the worst comes to the worst, who is big enough and has enough money to take over Thomas Cook?

Ally

Thomas Cook is made up of lots of sub companies, including operations in Germany, Russia and France. Its the Russian and French operations which have suffered as a result of the african revolutions with many holidays in Tunisia and Egypt not being taken.

Thomas Cook also recently bought Co-Operative Travel which was struggling I believe, this may well have been another nail in their financial coffin, following on from the MyTravel Group merger.

You may be interested that back in the 80's Robert Maxwell purchased a stake in the company........hmmmmm.

TravelEx is part of the group, and would likely be the main asset to sell I would have thought, so I expect a large financial organisation to make a bid for them at some stage.

With regards to the travel businesses, the airline is a separate entity. They have the high street stores which I would imagine will probably go in the long term. Other travel companies such as Thomson in the UK might be interested in buying a stake in the business, or they may just sit back and expect to pick up new trade as a result of lack of confidence in the business or future failings.

ATOL protect package holidays, so responsibility for any payments would fall with them, not quite sure how that might also impact negatively on the nations economy though.

I believe they don't own property such as hotels or chalets, I might be wrong, which would either mean other tour ops coming in to take over, or sadly some of those hotels particularly exclusive to T Cook may well be forced to close.

None of this is good news for either the UK or Europes economy, or the worlds in general. I believe this is indicative of the times we are currently in, and that we are witnessing the beginning of a massive financial meltdown in the western capitalist world.

Anyone going to University now should be speaking Chinese, Indian or Portuguese with a Brazilian slant.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:06:28 GMT

There's already far too little competition in the holiday market. I don't think Thomson/Tui would be permitted to buy them.
I guess any potential buyers are going to wait and see if they go under, get the debt largely written off by the administrators then step in and pick up the pieces.
Bottom line though is if the banks don't bail them out and they go bust, they banks are going to take a big hit. So it's probably in their interests to help.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:38:31 GMT

Note that Thos Cook are not loss making, they made GBP124m Operating Profit in year 2010. This was on a turnover of GBP3.14bn. An operating profit of 3.4%, might be deemed OK, in the current trading climate. But it is not sufficient to pay the interest on their loans.

It looks like some big strategic mistakes have been made. I could never see the sense in them buying a commodity business like Co-op Travel. They would have been better targetting the Co-ops weaker activities.

Having dome so, they have been inactive on the cost-cutting that should take place after such an event. There are many places where two Thos Cook outlets co-exist in close proximity ~ our nearest town has two TCs, about 150 yards apart.

They do have significant assets, and could raise enough to reduce their debt by a quarter ~ they just haven't done so. Well the banks will make them do so. I don't think that they have yet replaced their recently departed CEO, so that may prove to be an opportunity.

At a time when the internet has taken a lot of business away from the High St, shop closures and job losses are inevitable. By not taking expedient action, a CEO, and the board, risks the whole operation.

I don't take the view that they are necessarily doomed, there are actions that can be taken to reduce costs.

To anawer the quetions, I wouldn't have a problem with booking with TC ~ as I said already, I have booked GBP6k in flights ~ a decision taken in full awareness of their seocnd profits warning of the year, No, I did not check them out, but I did check that their ATOL number was in date. I am not concerned about what planes TC own as I am flying Emirates.

That decision was reinforced today by ABTA, who say that all package holidays and flights are fully protected.

Alles ist ruhig.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:43:19 GMT

Jastem found something about travel insurance on MoneySavingExpert.com for the travel insurance thread and when I followed the link there was also a load about Thomas Cook and what you are and are not covered for if they go bust after you've booked a holiday with them:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2011/11/qa-how-safe-is-thomas-cook

Here is a small extract of what it said (I went to a lecture recently about archiving websites which explained how loads of really interesting material is lost and why links stop working):

I've booked a Thomas Cook flight or hotel outside a package. Am I covered?

Hotel bookings. You are not covered by Atol, Abta or package holiday protection if Thomas Cook goes bust. You may have protection if you paid on plastic, see the 'Did you pay on credit or debit card?' section below.

Flights booked online. You are not covered by Atol, Abta or package holiday protection if Thomas Cook goes bust. You may have protection if you paid on plastic, see the 'Did you pay on credit or debit card?' section below.

Flights booked at a Thomas Cook shop. These will be Atol-protected. If Thomas Cook goes under, you can continue your holiday if abroad or get a refund if still in the UK. Ally

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:45:45 GMT

Dave Mac wrote:Note that Thos Cook are not loss making, they made GBP124m Operating Profit in year 2010.

They reported a pre tax loss back in March of -GBP269M

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:01:43 GMT

andyhull wrote:

Dave Mac wrote:Note that Thos Cook are not loss making, they made GBP124m Operating Profit in year 2010.

They reported a pre tax loss back in March of -GBP269M

OP is not the same as PBTI.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:33:05 GMT

Loss is a loss, which is why they are in the pooh.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Thu, 24 Nov 2011 14:45:11 GMT

Tony_H wrote:Loss is a loss, which is why they are in the pooh.

May I remind you that your favourite airline was in much deeper pooh, but they changed CEOs, and reverted to profitability.

The point about examining Operating profit, is that it allows you to look at the health of the business ~ and to separate out the reasons for it's adverse situation. It is much easier to identify basket cases.

TC may end up going AWOL; equally, if they get their cost base right, they may well reverse their fortunes. They will need to generate some cash, and they have assets to do that, and they will need to double their profit ~ not easy in a falling market.

Re:Neilson/Thomas cook

Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:17:26 GMT

andyhull wrote:

Dave Mac wrote:Note that Thos Cook are not loss making, they made GBP124m Operating Profit in year 2010.

They reported a pre tax loss back in March of -GBP269M

This was just before they announced a further warning and the CEO was replaced. Since then they've re-financed already, and have gone back for a 2nd package; so I am lead to believe.

Profit wibble all you like, they are in debt to the tune of GBP1billion, and that is the brown stuff alright.

BTW, not my favourite airline, never have been.